Post game: TFC @ Portland

[J .]

TFC has a lot of good players on it, I think we have seen that over the years players leave and then why we brought them in shows up. Labrocca and Wynn to name just two of the most recent.

A lot of what happened I think was a lack of leadership and familiarity. The team never really stabilized.

For me the biggest problem has been tactical and leadership over the past few years. Preki tactics were right for the players he had, but he was a poor leader. Carver a good leader, poor tactics, Dasovic the same.

Its my hope Winter brings it together and it is his team now. Any and all results are on him and not the previous management he has brought in some personnel whom I think are very good MLS quality players.

Hopefully the Portland game was a return of some character and the willpower. The team needs belief and guts to pull out these come from behind wins. Maybe it was a character point, maybe it was a fluke, I hope its a sign the team is coming together.

Nonetheless, at this point the results have not been there and while some people accept the poor results, I'll accept nothing less than a playoff birth as a measure of success and by that measure this season will be a failure. Winter has time to turn it around though and that would be a massive story in the clubs history if we were able to pull an RSL and make it to the next round.

[koryo]

HUH?

oh dear me, you can't be serious.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^An argument can be made that we would be better with JDG in the lineup because he provides better movment than most in his position that are available on this team. The problem being that that level still comes nowhere near the level of a game changing result from a DP.

That said I sincerely doubt that his exclusion from the lineup affected morale of the side as much as the subtraction of a DP (the only on at that for most of those matches) should. Lucky we don't have that problem anymore with our new DP arriving. I propose that we celebrate what seems to look like the near end of JDG's time with our reds. Love him or not we can all appreciate that.

[69Chevy396]

This makes sense. When he arrived, i thought, shit, we have a seasoned pro fresh from la liga. I never saw him play for deportiva etc. so, like everybody else, I applauded the signing and expected great things, considering he was so highly rated, and played at the very top level, and was now going to be playing for mls, quite a step down. Like Crosby joining a hockey league in Switzerland. However, after his short time here it is plainly obvious this was a huge mistake. He brings nothing to the team. Carl Robinson was my favorite player, and I frankly believe he is/was a better player, at least in mls, than jdg has been. Robinson and Edu, and others played hard, made tackling part of their game, even if they fucked up sometimes. Robinson had horrible aim when shooting on net, but he found ways to be part of the offense. Something this mutt jdg never seems to have. That hard strike he took against Portland was the first that I have seen which required the keeper to do something. I understand he is a DM, not expected to score. But shit, not even once? This is mls, not la liga. Instead of wasting millions on him, we should replace him with a few average mls quality defenders. I liked what Dunfield did in his short stint, and expect that he starts over jdg from now on, regardless of the salary issue etc.

[Stryker]

why is our defense so shit

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here and say maybe it has something to do with our two starting CB's substaining season ending injuries.
What are you new?

[Couchy81]

That hard strike he took against Portland was the first that I have seen which required the keeper to do something. I understand he is a DM, not expected to score.

To be fair he had a wicked shot some games ago that tested the keeper but I don't recall who it was against. It was gonna go in just under the crossbar but keeper got some fingers on it.

I don't like the way he plays personally but I remember the many arguments on here after we signed him and last year about his offensive abilities. He is not here to score for us, he's here to stabilize the back half of the pitch and distribute the ball to the AM or wingers.

[69Chevy396]

To be fair he had a wicked shot some games ago that tested the keeper but I don't recall who it was against. It was gonna go in just under the crossbar but keeper got some fingers on it.

I don't like the way he plays personally but I remember the many arguments on here after we signed him and last year about his offensive abilities. He is not here to score for us, he's here to stabilize the back half of the pitch and distribute the ball to the AM or wingers.

I understand, and how is that working out so far?

[Pookie]

He has skill. Debating his giveaways vs his positive attributes will get us no where. Eckersley, as an example, has great hustle and awareness. That said, he left his man to double team a Portland attacker leading to the first goal. Everyone makes mistakes.

The issue with JDG is that he takes up a DP slot. The question around him isn't his skill. It is whether that is the most effective use of the DP slot.

[Detroit_TFC]

^ this is the point.

[69Chevy396]

^ this is the point.

I understand this as well, a lot has been said about jdg's skills at distribution and holding the team together defensively. But this rarely happens. The defenders have a choice when they are under pressure. Pass to the midfield, presumably jdg, or hoof it up the pitch. So many times this season, when they chose the former, he botches it. The guy has good touch when receiving a pass from the defenders, but invariably fucks up when attempting to move the ball up the wing or centre. This is where his give aways hurt the most, and since he is supposed to be a 'world class' player, he should be able to orchestrate this better than we have witnessed. Giving the ball to him is usually one step before giving the ball to the opposition. So the forwards are left hanging on to their testicles. As soon as jdg leaves the game, the options for the defenders improve and the team plays much better. As for his salary, even if he was earning 100 k per year he would be considered less than average at his position in this league.

[Pookie]

^ in fairness, I think "less than average" considering his injuries, surgery and the like is a little harsh.

When healthy, he has arguably been one of the better midfielders we have had. I know that isn't saying much for a non-playoff team but earning caps for Canada indicates he isn't a stiff.

That said, I am fully of the opinion that if you put his skill set relative to his current state of health up against other available players that would carry a DP tag, I'm am 100% certain that we could find a better use of that DP slot out there.

[swan]

He has skill. Debating his giveaways vs his positive attributes will get us no where. Eckersley, as an example, has great hustle and awareness. That said, he left his man to double team a Portland attacker leading to the first goal. Everyone makes mistakes.

The issue with JDG is that he takes up a DP slot. The question around him isn't his skill. It is whether that is the most effective use of the DP slot.

i could be wrong/thinking of another goal but what i remember is ecks was chasing his man that cut to the middle and iro left his man to double team him then that guy passed it over to the now open guy and then ecks chased him..

[PopePouri]

i could be wrong/thinking of another goal but what i remember is ecks was chasing his man that cut to the middle and iro left his man to double team him then that guy passed it over to the now open guy and then ecks chased him..

Harden had closed the space actually. Ecks left his man to double team and got caught out.

[MarkoftheDrink]

Successfully completed passes by our DP MF's:

[MarkoftheDrink]

I really hope JDG has more to offer and he just needs time to get match fit and gel with his new teammates. The rest of the season will be interesting for him.

[Couchy81]

Julian De Guzman interview from a few days ago here: http://www.juliandeguzman.info/2011/...to-toronto-fc/

[los sonadores]

All the JDG bitching + Frings comparisons is so incredibly tiresome. Okay, he's probably in the wrong league, but still the club is considerably better with him than without. He's hardly played in a month. He is very experienced, usually excellent away in hostile CA and SA stadiums. He should be worth it alone for the CL if they can advance. And anyway I find it refreshing to have at least one Canadian on the TFC that looks like he "can play football", or is at least capable of it.

[Shakes McQueen]

All the JDG bitching + Frings comparisons is so incredibly tiresome. Okay, he's probably in the wrong league, but still the club is considerably better with him than without. He's hardly played in a month. He is very experienced, usually excellent away in hostile CA and SA stadiums. He should be worth it alone for the CL if they can advance. And anyway I find it refreshing to have at least one Canadian on the TFC that looks like he "can play football", or is at least capable of it.

The question isn't whether the teams looks better with him than without - the question is whether he looks better than player(s) that could be taking up his cap space instead.

- Scott

[jloome]

All the JDG bitching + Frings comparisons is so incredibly tiresome. Okay, he's probably in the wrong league, but still the club is considerably better with him than without. He's hardly played in a month. He is very experienced, usually excellent away in hostile CA and SA stadiums. He should be worth it alone for the CL if they can advance. And anyway I find it refreshing to have at least one Canadian on the TFC that looks like he "can play football", or is at least capable of it.

Agreed. The hyperbole that he's shit or how much better Dunfield will be is just delusional. He completed 34 of 44 passes the other night, which isn't fantastic, but it's not shit.

[69Chevy396]

Agreed. The hyperbole that he's shit or how much better Dunfield will be is just delusional. He completed 34 of 44 passes the other night, which isn't fantastic, but it's not shit.

That is misleading. Many of his completed passes are those that are short and to the defenders or to Frei. His forward passes give him trouble. On at least four or five occasions in that game he put the ball right on a Portland players boot while looking right at him. When Robinson did this occasionally, people derided him mercilessly. Why does this guy get a pass? (no pun intended)

[Max_TO]

JDG , to me he seemed like he needs to settle down a bit . 2 of his 3 SOG were rushed and off the mark . He , more than anyone IMHO , realizes how he look and the questions regarding his game play . He needs to worie about playing the game rather then rushing his game in hopes of " proving his critics wrong " . Does he have the skill to play in MLS , I don't know as I have no info on his history with other clubs .

[ag futbol]

I don't think we should be asking questions about the league he's in. He played in Germany for a while, the physical requirements of playing in the bundesliga are obviously superior to MLS in every way possible. Spain is more on the technical side but the standard of play is also incredibly high.

The issue is the JDG who played for those european teams does not exist today. Level of play has decreased and injuries have increased markedly. He's not playing at the level he was before he arrived here, I think that should be obvious.

[los sonadores]

I don't think we should be asking questions about the league he's in. He played in Germany for a while, the physical requirements of playing in the bundesliga are obviously superior to MLS in every way possible. Spain is more on the technical side but the standard of play is also incredibly high.

The issue is the JDG who played for those european teams does not exist today. Level of play has decreased and injuries have increased markedly. He's not playing at the level he was before he arrived here, I think that should be obvious.

Not too many playing at that level play as well here as they did in Europe. I hope Frings can keep up his level of play but, for example, the difference between Frings working with (even) 19 yr old Plata on the field and without Plata is considerable. He needs smart players around him who know how to find space at the right time. It's so easy to imagine Frings not making a huge impact, despite his 'leadership, etc.... especially imagine him being here before the recent acquisitions.

Even injured JDG is one of the most skilled players on the team.

[swan]

Harden had closed the space actually. Ecks left his man to double team and got caught out.

went and watched it again

it was harden and not Iro and the portland guy didn't cut to the middle like i thought... but to me it still looks like harden left his guy ecks was chasing guy 1 down and when they got close to harden that was covering guy 2 harden left guy 2 and started double team guy1 letting guy 2 go uncovered...

but anyway the point was even players that are good make mistakes witch is 100% true..

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Correct but there is another side to that. If one is playing beside a player he trusts to do his job without help one never neglects his own job.

So we could say no Harden maybe no double team from Ecks, right?

[maninb]

What bothers me most about JDG isn't his mediocre passing but his incredibly BAD TACKLING.....MLS is a very physical league (unlike la Liga) and JDG gets swatted away like he was a misquito most of the time...hardly a trait you want in a DM....

[trane]

Agreed. The hyperbole that he's shit or how much better Dunfield will be is just delusional. He completed 34 of 44 passes the other night, which isn't fantastic, but it's not shit.

I would say that 34 of 44 is a poor night for a holding mid, who you would hope would make safer passes to more attacking players, or even pass it back to safety, but it is not a terrible night by any standard, and he is a better passer and receiver of the ball then almost anyone on this team.

I like him, but as I have said many times before, I would like to see a bit more pace ( not burning pace, just pace to cover alot of ground) and physicality from my DM, in any league those are the qualities of a DM. His passing was never my concern. Although he seems to make poor passess at times seemigly from a lack of concetration.

[maninb]

^Agreed...Dunfield was 23 out of 24.....34 out of 44 is POOR by pro standards....

[69Chevy396]

^Agreed...Dunfield was 23 out of 24.....34 out of 44 is POOR by pro standards....

I had no idea one could obtain these stats, I suppose the internet is God after all. For those of you who have the time or inclination: How many goals have TFC allowed with JDG on the pitch versus goals when he is not playing? How many goals has the team scored with him on, versus when he is off? Just curious, considering he is supposed to be a leader, even if he is never expected to score a goal himself, much like a keeper or linesman, or coach.

[habstfc]

I would say that 34 of 44 is a poor night for a holding mid, who you would hope would make safer passes to more attacking players, or even pass it back to safety, but it is not a terrible night by any standard, and he is a better passer and receiver of the ball then almost anyone on this team.

He wasn't really playing DM. Frings wassreally playing that more, JDG was playing further up the other night.