I've always thought that it's really unprofessional how the players in MLS open up to the fans like this. When i've talked to athletes in other major sports they never rant about their employer like that.
I've always thought that it's really unprofessional how the players in MLS open up to the fans like this. When i've talked to athletes in other major sports they never rant about their employer like that.
He wasnt coaching the first team, sorry but that's huge. Ajax released him and he was unemployed for 18 months. If he was so brilliant, maybe he wouldn't have been released, and maybe he would have been headhunted straight away.Originally Posted by backbeat
Frings will have no problem with the system, and he probably has more in common with winter than with anybody on the squad. Dont expect a thing to change with regard to how winter treats players he seems to look down on.
If you've read The Beckham Experiment, and you've followed MLS for a while, then you know that Alan Gordon is a really interesting, thoughtful, hugely-respected-around-the-league type person.
There is no interpretation of this other than that it's incredibly negative for Winter. Period. Suggesting it's just sour grapes is like saying the sky is purple.
(and god knows there's a fair bit of that going around, woe betide anyone who points out that the sky is blue, he's likely to be quickly told he's miserable and needs psychological help.)
Here's some more "blue sky" for you all lost in the endless happy talk in the postgame thread: we were badly outplayed and probably should have lost by more than a goal....we can't really build around Frings, he's clearly lost a step....Johnson looked no better than Peterson (maybe worse)....and Iro is not a player who is ever likely to be comfortable in a quick movement system, I know it's early on this last point, but cmon, he's the antithesis of a passing CB, what the heck is going on? (He also did not look like someone we should have traded the best prospect in the system for, why not sign 2 Viators?)
There's more where that came from but I'll wait for the first round of fire before going on....
Last edited by ensco; 07-21-2011 at 05:32 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
correction :S...my first time adding was way off :S
1 Javier Morales $335,000.00
2 Alvaro Saborio $305,625.00
3 Kyle Beckerman $301,250.00
4 Jamison Olave $290,000.00
5 Will Johnson $225,000.00
6 Arturo Alvarez $201,922.50
7 Nat Borchers $169,058.50
8 Nick Rimando $158,250.00
9 Anthony Beltran $135,500.00
10 Chris Wingret $135,000.00
11 Andy Williams $99,225.00
12 Fabian Espindola $75,000.00
13 Cody Arnoux $71,650.00
14 Donny Toia $60,000.00
15 Kyle Reynish $58,304.00
16 Collen Warner $55,750.00
17 Paulo Araujo $53,520.00
18 Nelson Gonzalez $42,008.00
19 Jean Alexandre $42,000.00
20 Rauwshan McKenzie $42,000.00
$2,856,063.00
21 Tim Melia $42,000.00
22 Conor Chinn $32,604.00
23 Chris Schuler $32,600.00
24 Luis Gil $185,333.33
a) trying and doing aren't always the same. Far more than weve ever seen in a north american sports team?..... I think a lot of teams are 'trying' to do the same thing, at the same time, and are doing much better.
b) Im staying on the train, now what? you gonna bitch at me some more cause i think the coach is out of his depth?
hahaha dont hold back, unload that shit and let the flies feast buddy.
Yes, it definitely seems like they're switching gears halfway through the season. Which may not be a bad thing. For all their talk about a new culture and an "entertaining style" it's good that someone finally realized the objective here is to win games against other MLS teams.
One thing that has been consistent with TFC all year is that they're easy to play against. It has been odd to hear almost no talk at all before games about the oposition, about how they plan to win, as if all the teams are the same or as if TFC feels it can execute so well it doesn't matter who they're playing.
So changing gears is not a bad idea.
Have to agree. Taking Gordon's word on this is foolish; he's been passed around more than a hooker on a sailor's shore leave.
And it's clear from Grant Wahl's book that Gullit was hardly even present, considered himself an executive manager -- that isn't what we've seen from Winter.
What we have seen that suppots that theory is his loyalty to Harden, whom Gullit also loved.
Personally, I think Gordon and Peterson are describing the same thing as De Klerk and Winter -- that they can't play the system. I hate to tell the two perennial journeyman...but that doesn't mean the system's bad, or even the coaching.
Again I point to the lack of faith you continually exhibit without having given him long enough to fix the previous regime. Both arguments are just as specious and pointless.
Yes , in the midst of the war, we are not seeing the big picture.....myself included,.....it is long term strength and stability that we should be trying to achieve........of course we will see every problem and mistake.....but what other course is there......slow and steadi 'progress .....I guess
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
Again, having read the book, where do you get this? There is no way, from that book, that you can claim to known Alan Gordon well enough to write it off as not being sour grapes. He was injured, he felt he shouldn't have been playing. That, right there, is enough for sour grapes, and that's out of his own mouth. On top of that, he'd just been traded for the fifth time in seven years, even though he was his team's number two leading scorer.
Additionally, he was probably told he was being fragile by the coaches, based on what the trainer was telling them. So really, why woudl you NOT expect sour grapes? That litany of annoyances would piss anyone off.
I've seen you mention this before. As far as I can tell, he was never released by Ajax. He was assistant coach of the first reserve team from 2005-2011 and head coach of the youth team from 2007-2011.
Anyone who knows Ajax on this? Vic?
Sometimes teams dump decent coaches (Sigi at LA) and sometime clueless managers get hired (Avram Grant at West Ham). Sometimes coaches/managers with a track record of success shit the nest (too many to list, Sven at Mexico and Capello at England come to mind) and sometimes coachs/mgrs with no top flight experience excel (Pep Guardiola). A lot depends on what the expectations are and what the bosses want them to do. I believe the academy set up is a big part of what Winter & Co. were hired to do and just perhaps immediate results were not high on the list (ok maybe high on the list but not top of the list).
I liked Gordon, alot, but i find it hard to believe that Winter and DeKlerk are as incapable as suggested. Their pedigree suggests much better. While I am concerned about the teams lack of response after the half - suggesting a coaching/motivation issue, I think to compare Winter to Bradley or Arena is ludicrous. they have a plan, and a re undertaking it. if Preki hadn't got rid of some players with ball skill - like Aamado - it would be easier. meantime, they are trying, and if last night is any evidence, will succeed. They have my support and should have everyone's.
Don't go by his wiki page.
He last coached in 2009.
Whoever edited the wiki page tried to "fill in the gap" in his resume.
I know that Dunivant loved it here and didn't want to leave.
the wiki looks like its been through by the chinese.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but 90 minutes of football seems like an insufficient timeframe to reach any definitive conclusions about a player, let alone a group of several players that were making their debut for the club.
Personally, I thought the new acquisitions were average for the most part, other than Frings, who clearly demonstrated that he can still control the midfield despite not being match fit.
In any case, a few more weeks should allow us to accurately gauge the new signings.
If anyone reads Dutch, you can find some info here.
http://www.ajaxupdate.nl/2009/05/tus...ring-afc-ajax/
If you look towards the middle-end of the news piece, it mentions Aron Winter being released by the club. Adrie Koster, who was coaching with him, left at the same time. But since Koster had a more extensive coaching background he wound up moving to Bruges.
This is from May 2009.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/ar...ainer_771.html
Last edited by Whoop; 07-21-2011 at 06:39 PM.
Either they do endless passing drills, but have no idea what the heck the bigger picture is of what the system is, or they don't.
Either his comment that Winter is just like Gullit makes sense to you, or it doesn't.
I believe Gordon, and I think it's ridiculous not to.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
what an absolute bunch of fucking shit. Dallas lost the league MVP and hasn't missed a beat playing a bunch of no-name cheap South Americans and cheap Americans ..... and their best player is one of those so called "no talent MLS/NCAA" players in Brek Shea. Yeah you remember that guy right - that blonde kid who destroyed us last night.
The worst punt and hoof offenders like New England and Portland are at the bottom of the table anyway.
Who is winning "ugly" in this league?
Dallas and Seattle are winning with quality players the ages of 21-25. We already know about RSL, LA and NY.
I guess you can say Philly is winning ugly, maybe.
Last edited by Blowing Bubbles; 07-21-2011 at 06:39 PM.
Here are some terms that might be understood better in Canada- the hockey country:
Imagine an NHL/AHL coach goes off to Italy to teach hockey, and he's an ex-NHL player. The hockey they play there is: get the puck, run to the net or throw it into the zone and hope for the best.
The management expects results from the team.
Does the coach:
-Teach 30+ year old hockey players how to play cycle, passing game and explain them the fundemantals of stick handling with the head-up? (Because they don't!)
-Or Bring in 10 AHL/ECHL Canadian players, because let's say that's the limit, and draw up some hockey tactics...
What's the point of Winter trying to explain to Alan Gordon how to play attacking for 4-3-3 if he knows that Gordon is a journeyman who is just a filler....? It's like teaching a 30 year old hockey player to handle the puck without looking at it. It's Fundemental A, B, C's. How did Alan Gordon get into football again?? Oh yea.. baseball player- ok..
That's the way I see it. I believe that Winter has atleast the knowledge to be in the league as a competative coach. Whether or not he is the real deal winner is questionable, since it's his first real coaching job.
Last edited by nickio; 07-21-2011 at 06:41 PM.
^^
No the hockey equivalent is getting a former NHL player who coached AAA minor hockey and goes to the Swiss First Division to coach a professional team.
Now if Winter had coached Ajax (NHL) or a 2nd division team (AHL)... then you have a better gauge of what kind of coach he is.
Remember Winter was never the HEAD coach of the top Ajax youth team.
fyi in their last game RSL started:
7 dumb Americans
2 dumb Canadian
1 Colombian
1 Costa Rican
no DP's. beat Dallas 2-0.
They managed to get their dumb North American players to play good stuff so it is possible.
As far as this team goes, its impossible to reach any definitive conclusions about anyone or anything in any amount of time.
fact.
OMG Guys, give Winter a chance the Playoffs are long gone this year. I hope we can make a run at the Champions League and if we can get out of the group stage that = success in my mind, win it ( dare I dream) and it's more important than the MLS cup.
FYI, the Ajax A1 team is the "flagship" team of the Ajax Youth Academy.
Winter was only the assistant of that team.
My point still stands- even an assistant CHL coach / (good) ex NHL player would know what he is doing.
I had the opportunity to speak to Aron just after his arrival and he said that the the technical level of his players was not good at all.What I also noted last night that the level of intelligent soccer was very low.No brilliant passes,poor decision making and fundamentals were ignored.It short it was a disaster.I was also very aware of his minimal exposure to these coaching levels and I never expected him to do well.The drawing board is immense and that Ajax system thing only applies to their youth system.We have not reached that status and what always amazed me that this Ajax system was very strong on players doing very well at school.No good marks and you don't play for Ajax.The educational committee have the power to bench a player.That magic Ajax system and educational system go hand in hand.
Last edited by johntv; 07-21-2011 at 07:08 PM.
Actually I was referring to the players rather than the supporters as they're supposed to be professionals. The supporters I can understand their frustration as I am also but you can hardly expect to deal away shit and get diamonds in return. The incoming players may only be of the same skill level or perhaps marginally better but at least they have a willingness to try to adapt to the new system and a seemingly better outlook on the club as a whole. These were things Winter himself said he was looking for in new players.
Having said all that you seem to want to take my previous post on a personal level so Ill just respond by saying I really don't care if you, Exiled, are on the train, off the train, or under the train.
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