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  1. #541
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    This is kind of an open statement directed towards comments about quick turnarounds.

    In an league in which is owned by a single entity, is it not within the league's interest to ensure certain markets are successful in order to maximize profits for this single entity owner?

    Consider a few, very cursory examples:

    Kansas City finished 13th overall in 2009. In 2010, they broke ground on a new stadium and signed a local TV contract. The squad improved to 3rd in the east that year and are reasonably competitive this year.

    RSL - announce plans to build Rio Tinto Stadium in 2006. In 2007, a number of key players are acquired via MLS trades including Beckerman. In 2008, the stadium opens and RSL qualifies for the playoffs for the first time and hasn't missed since.

    NY Red Bulls - Red Bull Arena opens in 2010. In the offseason, new coach, an influx of new players and a 3rd overall record
    I'm not at all suggesting match fixing. However, it wouldn't be beyond impossible to think that certain connections could be used to help teams, that the league wants/needs to see be successful, to acquire players.

    It reminds me a little of the Memorial Cup in Junior hockey. It is a 4 team tournament consisting of the Champ from Quebec, Ontario, Western Hockey and the host city. The host city gets in based on the fact that they are the host city, not on record.

    Sort of a risk at Junior hockey's biggest showcase. They try to mitigate that by selecting the host city based on perceived competitiveness at the time of the tournament but injuries and the nature of competition sometimes put them in a risk.

    So, it is not uncommon, that should the host city be less than competitive that a mid-season trade(s) be engineered. Invariably, the host city is improved over the short term and the tournament goes forward.


    If this holds any water, our challenge in Toronto is that the league doesn't need Toronto to be more competitive on the field for any reason at this point. We are selling tickets and making profit. The TV contract is there, it could be a little better but it is there. There are no real close geographical rivals, outside of Montreal and they already have their expansion money. Unless Buffalo and Detroit get in on it, we are a bit of an island.

  2. #542
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    ^ The problem is, TFC is doing what the league tells it to (they hired Mo and then they hired Soccer Solutions on league advice) and RSL went against what the league wanted (advised them not to hire Kreiss).

    So, they may want the results as you say, they just aren't very good at getting them .

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoop View Post
    Not many DPs end up fulfilling the length of their contract. And that's not including situations where there are horrific results.

    But I'm still waiting to hear about these young building blocks that will leave TFC to the playoffs in 2012.
    Really? Perhaps I missed it, but it seems like the majority of designated players that have signed in MLS have fulfilled the duration of their contracts. I recall the situation with the DP in Houston earlier this season, but that was an isolated incident.

    As for young building blocks in the organization, I responded to this question with several examples the last time you mentioned it, and it turned into a debate about blue chip prospects versus prospects. I believe there are at least a few young players on the roster that have a bright future in this league.

    If you're asking about players that are young enough to help lead TFC to the playoffs in the 2012, doesn't that include the majority of names on the current roster? Aside from a few players that will be traded/released either now or in the off season, the current roster should remain intact going into next season, and I believe it will be a playoff team. The overall talent level is good enough. If TFC doesn't qualify for the playoffs next season, it will be an indictment of Aron Winter's coaching ability, not the talent level on the roster.
    Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 07-25-2011 at 09:17 AM.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    It reminds me a little of the Memorial Cup in Junior hockey. It is a 4 team tournament consisting of the Champ from Quebec, Ontario, Western Hockey and the host city. The host city gets in based on the fact that they are the host city, not on record.

    Sort of a risk at Junior hockey's biggest showcase. They try to mitigate that by selecting the host city based on perceived competitiveness at the time of the tournament but injuries and the nature of competition sometimes put them in a risk.

    So, it is not uncommon, that should the host city be less than competitive that a mid-season trade(s) be engineered. Invariably, the host city is improved over the short term and the tournament goes forward.
    1) The criteria for a picking a host team has changed at least in Ontario. Strength of the team coming back is 1, 1a in selecting a host team.

    2) Again, you're picking a small sample to fit your argument. How do you explain Philadelphia? Seattle? They're sold out, they have good coverage, why the need to "match fix"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    If you're asking about players that are young enough to help lead TFC to the playoffs in the 2012, doesn't that include the majority of names on the current roster? Aside from a few players that will be traded/released either now or in the off season, the current roster should remain intact going into next season, and I believe it will be a playoff team. The overall talent level is good enough. If TFC doesn't qualify for the playoffs next season, it will be an indictment of Aron Winter's coaching ability, not the talent level on the roster.
    Isn't that what people are saying now. Aside from the qualifying for the playoffs, that even with the talent that Winter has, the team should be getting better results.

    And if the current roster should remain intact - aside from a few changes - shouldn't the results be better? Yes, I know the argument is that the team needs a few games to gel. By the time those few games are up, the season will be done.

  5. #545
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    DangerRed/Gordon
    but when a player asks a question about how the system works beyond just "attacking, possession-oriented football," there are no answers. Players are just running around in confusion.
    I say... what more does a player need to know?
    Side Note...
    Did we trade Labrocca (all-star) for Gordon I cant remember???
    Roogsy
    If we can't even get this assurance from the team, then what's the point of doing anything else? A clear and unquestionable performance measure is an expected and logical demand of any high performance position. And yet we dance and skirt around this issue like we are going to hurt someone's feelings?
    This is a great statement here... TFC is a business and we the shareholders... (season seat holders) need to hear something.
    But they already told us we are in the re-building stage... I get it... all we are asking is to be more competitive but for now
    I think the re-building thing is good enough.
    also criticism done right is ok.
    "Give Winter a year or so" "Ride out the season with Winter"
    This is not EPL players here are shite... the build/performance turn-a-round for a quality team takes time....
    I would give Winter 3 years min.
    Obviously by all the moves; they are trying to make something happen.
    Although all this talk is nice cause it shows peoples interest... most of the comments sound like we are preparing for a boycott..
    Like I said before I have already committed to this team for life so if its 0 - 175 for the next 5 season then so be it.
    Unless I move from Toronto... I am not going to be sitting at home while a home game is being played and I will always be in front of a tv for away games. Its just the way I feel and think. Its a part of my life no matter which way its served to me...
    As much as I dont agree with MLSE... they got me... No wait Soccer got me.
    I heard this man on my floor talking about copa america the other day so i decided to go talk to him this morning turns our he is from Nicaragua and is going to the game wednesday... anyways long story short we had a 20 min convo about tfc...
    We shared our stories and thoughts we were like too little kids who were happy to share the same passion for something...
    Soccer Passion Respect thats what RPBs is about.

    and my only concern right now is frei...
    he is the franchise.
    Last edited by whyalwaysme11; 07-26-2011 at 12:10 PM.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoop View Post
    1) The criteria for a picking a host team has changed at least in Ontario. Strength of the team coming back is 1, 1a in selecting a host team.
    Agreed. I tried to account for that in suggesting that strength of the host city was a criteria but sometimes injuries or playing below expectations can enter into it. If that happens, trades usually follow

    2) Again, you're picking a small sample to fit your argument. How do you explain Philadelphia? Seattle? They're sold out, they have good coverage, why the need to "match fix"?
    Of course. It is small because there haven't been that many soccer specific stadiums built.

    Again, I'm just raising the "curious eyebrow" here. This isn't a Declan Hill type expose.

    If I could offer a possible reason why Philadelphia and Seattle were on the league's radar in seeing successful, I would suggest that a strong east coast loop between DC, Philadelphia and NY would be excellent for ratings and gate interest.

    Seattle? Same story just on the other coast. With expansion fees in hand from Vancouver and Portland and you have 3 very close cities which could provide a boost for geographic rivals. I would be surprised if Vancouver and Portland don't make a reasonable improvement in the year after the expansion hype dies down... much like Philly did.

    Anyways, the simple fact is that the league profits when its teams do well. Seeing the bigger markets do well is likely to generate more revenue. If you follow the money there is motivation for things to be less than they appear. I'm not saying they are. I'm not saying they aren't. I'm just saying it looks a little curious at times.

    Much like the NYRB's transfer of Henry and Marquez which curiously had a $0 transfer price tag for NY but a $5M price tag for anyone else and whispers of Barcelona's interest in MLS franchise rights down the road. You do me a favour...
    Last edited by Pookie; 07-26-2011 at 12:28 PM.

 

 

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