I'd definitely agree the trades have made a huge difference. Still gaping holes at the two positions you mentioned, specifically with two players.Originally Posted by rocker
Here's a hint: Iro wasn't one of them.
I'd definitely agree the trades have made a huge difference. Still gaping holes at the two positions you mentioned, specifically with two players.
Here's a hint: Iro wasn't one of them.
Viator, borman, iro....suck
Still say it will be 5 - 10 games before we can really see what this teams like. Some players need match fitness and everyone needs to get used to their new team mates.
well I guess its a good thing I didn't break my plans with my wife to watch the game like I wanted to...I didn't miss much.
1) Welcome to pro sports!
2) Especially: Welcome to MLSE owned sports teams.
IN FACT there is causation for a relationship between fan support (attendance) and losing: MLSE knows they could put a bunch of gorillas in leaf jerseys and put them on the ice and STILL sell out every game, make tonnes of ad revenue off viewers etc...
Same here, the team hasnt scored this month, but still we go in droves, buy 21,000 tickets, not to mention food, bevvies and paraphanalia. Don't get me wrong, if the product is better they will make more money, more people buy jerseys etc... But in terms of the marginal cost, it is sometimes advantageous to not spend on improving the team. (if there will be strong financial fan support anyway)
Dallas on the other hand, will collapse if they dont win, you said they are luckly to have 3,000 fans, imagine what they would look like if they were as poor as us this season? they might not be able to survive.
So in a twisted way, you supporting TFC, puts the club in a position where winning games is not quite a desperate priority. (I see this more with the Leafs, because we have seen TFC spend shitloads on players)
That or they want to keep the shortsighted fans/media happy and try to win/make the playoffs ASAP and in doing so fail to ever properly build a TEAM.
I honestly don't understand the obsession some seem to have with the playoffs. Who cares if we make the playoffs if we scrape in and get bounced the first round? The playoffs are meaningless if we don't have a proper team.
Making the playoffs two years ago when we missed out by a point after we were blown out by NYRB could have set this team back another 5 years from where it is now and Mo might still have a job here. :fear:
As far as tonight goes, good effort from the boys. Dallas has quite an athletic team and they play well as a unit. Considering our influx of new blood and some fitness issue we have, I think with a little luck we could have easily had a point and maybe more. Torsten is a class above and the other players seem like improvements over what we had. Can't wait to see everyone else and Ekersley in the lineup.
Last edited by MarkoftheDrink; 07-21-2011 at 02:33 AM.
Frings played well, Koovermans had no service and agree he did not seem 100% fit however it was crazy warm out there. Johnson had some nice touches and looks like he could do well. The rest, hmm not impressed as of yet. To get the best from Kooverman we need players who can cross, Valitor and Borman cannot cross. I would stop short of saying we played well, our defense was ripped apart time and time again, Dallas made it look very easy. I really do think we need to ship JDG out asap and try and get in a DP CB who can begin to Marshall the absolute shit show that is our defense. We are crying out for someone to take control back there and help us keep shape. It is either that or Winter has to make the team play more defensively ie no right back and left backs pushing too far forward. We did miss Ecks but the problem is way worse than what he can fix as we have seen so far. The defense is a combination of players who are not good enough and tactics which are leaving them hung out to dry.
Apologies for spelling of some players names.
The good:
Frings is a very good player. Although it will be a few games until he gets match-fit, he is a tremendous pick-up for the club, everything that you want from a DP. He makes the team look better. I can't imagine what he is thinking after playing in this poor league with this even crappier squad.
The mediocre:
Tactics: For all that we've said about Winter being rigid, he recognized both the heat and the lack of fitness of the players, and had them play route 1 football (this was a deliberate strategy, as they started that way, it wasn't just panic, and they were consistent). However, if he was willing to play a different strategy, he should have changed formations, as well. A 4-4-2 would have done much better in neutralizing Dallas' midfield.
Frei: We're so used to Frei being outstanding, this game he looked a little weak, at times.
Koev: obviously not match fit, at all. His screamer shot on net, though, showed what he is capable of. When fit he could be a game-changer, or not. We'll have to see.
Team effort: Unlike the previous 2 outings, the team didn't give up but pushed until the end. I put that up to Frings and to a lesser extent, Iro.
The bad:
Welcome to pre-season #2. The players don't know each other and it shows. Quite a few were out of shape. It will take several games to meld this group, and by then the playoff deficit will be more than 5 points.
The defense. Disorganized, often caught out of position, they looked horrible. Harden particularly looked terrible, makes one wonder why Gargan wasn't played (I'm sure that Winter can see what we see). I like Harden's character, but he currently doesn't have what it takes to play in MLS. Maybe he is a 'work in progress," or maybe he should go back to whatever he studied in college and call it a day.
The midfield (apart from Frings). Lacking creativity, and just basic skill. Too bad Tchani had to be traded in order to bolster our defence. Hopefully JDG can get back soon, because even at his most mediocre, he is far better than what we saw out there last night.
Hopefully we are like RSL just after their rebuild. It took them half a season to get their chemistry going. However, it may not work, or may take longer.
Definitely the defense will have to be rebuilt over the off-season. JDG will probably go in the January transfer window, and the cap space can be used in back. We also won't be continuing to cover the salaries of ex-TFC players, so that will also bring some cap relief.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 07-21-2011 at 07:30 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Johnson and Frings had good games. In fact, Frings looked just dominate in the midfield and man wouldn't it have been special if we scored on that rocket of a freekick in the second minute. Iro was pretty bad but I know he's good so i'll give it time.
How about Dallas though? They were incredible all around last night. I keep hearing people on this forum complain about the quality in this league but what I saw tonight was a really talented Dallas team.
What was up with the pitch last night? Everyone was slipping constantly, Johnson fouled a breakaway up and Iro lost the ball as the last defender; both slips and both occured on seperate sides of the field.
^ too much water IMO. There are times when the ball has a rooster tail on it.
Pretty reasonable comments for the most part. I wonder, if Santos could head a ball into the net from 4 feet, what the tone would be in this post game thread?
5 new players against the best team in the league. Not bad I would say.
Frings is class. Kovermans will be great too. He was good last night but needed a bit better service.
Was nice to see the excitement back at BMO last night. Haven't seen or heard it for a long time. 112 started out great - but I guess people assumed we'd win 5-0 or something, so when that didn't happen people started turning sour.
Surprised to hear people criticise Plata for running at defenders too much. That's what he does, that's his job. Plata runs at defenders, Kovermans is the target man. Seems like a good match to me.
Looking forward to watching this team play from here on in.
Jacko the Capo dancing and slapping his ass at the chick in 111 was potentially the highlight of the night.
I'm finding it even more difficult to understand what to do with Santos. He can be dangerous but seems like the type of player whose morale can't withstand being on the bench. But, when he starts he's a dud.
My thoughts exactly....good God were they TERRIBLE...and wasn't Sturgis supposed to be playing right-mid? Viator had 2-3 guys on him ALL NIGHT...Christ that was painful to watch...but what else is new....and could someone please explain to Yourassowsky that you're supposed to dribble with the ball at your feet, not kick it 3 yards in front of you and chase it...he was directly responsible for the goal and you could see Winter was absolutely furious with him for giving up the ball every time he touched it...
I'm sure Frings wasn't too disappointed in the way Dallas played most of the time -- and that will help him realize what is possible in this league.
Man, Dallas can pass the ball around well, and play themselves out of some pretty tight situations. Not perfect of course, they have the same salary cap, but pretty damn good.
Does anyone know what happened at the top of 110 last night? There were security and paramedics; it looked as though someone may have passed out or something.
I like yourass - but agree about Borman and Harden, not a big fan of either.
I like Iro's energy; Frings did ok - but I wasn't blown away, you could see the quality, and I'm surer he'll play better next time; it just reminded me of how everyone used to cry about Robbo giving the ball away - Frings must have given it away ten times with errant passes...
Koverman did nothing - obviously out of shape.
Soolsma was impressive to me
did not understand the subs at all - it seemed like Plata was our most dangerous player and off he went, same with yourass - he was finding some space and off he went -
^ Yourass got pulled cause he was at fault on the goal and gave the ball away every time he touched it...You could see Winter and DeKlerk screaming at him, and they gave him an earful when he got to the sidelines..
i agree with you on youras,he was brutal,the goal was totally his fault.
shea is the best player ive seen in the mls this year by far.
saying that they gave him way too much space,i dont think he will be in this league much longer.
You know... thinking back to the game, we had a lot of great scoring chances. That game could have went differently if their keeper didn't make those stops (I realize they had lots of chances that Frei stopped too). It wasn't as bad as it first seemed.
I'm optimistic.
Plata was running like crazy on a very hot night. They have difficult games coming up, twice a week for the next stretch. We don't want to kill the kid. Perhaps they told him, go all-out from the beginning, we'll sub you when needed. Just guessing, perhaps they also weren't happy with Plata giving the ball away a few times when he had a better opportunity to pass. Plus, they had made two other offensive-minded subs before that (Santos and Soolsma in), so it's not like they were throwing in the towel.
Frings was off on a few passes, usually chipped efforts that were partly necessary because other Toronto players weren't more open. However, he also successfully completed 49 passes in the game (from the TFC report), a high for the team: especially in his first game, you would expect some to be off. That got better in the course of the game IMO.
Agreed on the big defensive problems. However, Break Shea's goal was at least as much a midfield as a defensive problem. Yourassowsky turned over the ball, Frings went down too quickly in his challenge on Shea IMO, and Sturgis jogged along next to Shea before the shot.
I want to rant about the crowd tonight, I just was so utterly annoyed by the people there. It was like 95% of them had never been to a football match before.
Last couple matches I had sold my top of 111 seats and moved down to 112, finally went back to 111 tonight only to find the place full of seated tourists and odd stares as I tried to make some noise. Nobody was willing to make a sound up there and people we're being fussy about seating...ugh it was irritating.
Add to the fact that BMO was as quiet as I've seen 20,000 people before and I have to say the atmosphere was pretty god damn boring last night. No offence to anyone who was doing their thing tho.
As for on the field, I thought we looked OK as a whole with all things considered. Teammates who don't know each other playing against a strong side and we kept with them for the most part. Had we drawn it wouldn't have been undeserved.
Koevermans wasn't fit but a few times he showed off some decent ball control and I look forward to seeing him going forward.
Plata gave the ball away alot tonight, many runs he'd try and beat the defender and lose. He has to slow it down if he's constantly losing on challenges and look to play the ball to someone else.
Johnson played a decent game, worked the wing very well at times with Borman, just a shame that Borman lacks any ability to do something dangerous with the ball.
Soolsma came in and showed off his very consistent ability to lay them into the box. A shame he's so bloody slow. I'm not sure he's better off starting vs fresh defenders or coming in late, but I hope he continues to get regular minutes with the way he plays the ball into the area.
Yourass and Sturgis were rightfully subbed, I didn't see anything from them at all in the middle and they were just poor. Looking forward to seeing Dunfield, JDG and possibly Griffit? in that role.
Frings was exactly what I expected. A class above our team and worked relentlessly to get things going. This one game alone says he was the right signing for our club. His spot kick ability is obviously got some rust on it for now.
At the back, Borman was his standard garbage self blowing markings and being useless on the attack. I liked what I saw from Viator at RB. For a guy that's probably the newest of all the new I thought he did well on some plays and was a step above what we normally get from Gargan/Borman.
Harden was Harden in the middle, I can't recall anything to crap on him about but I'm sure there's something. Iro was up and down, he made some nice plays at times but then got caught badly at others. Probably a matter of time for him to get his playing legs under him and getting comfy with Frei and the other defenders. He looks like a giant compared to some guys out there and will definitely be useful on the attack late in games.
i say a 4-4-2 him and danny on the front line..
Here's hoping we break our typical behaviour of bringing in a striker provide zero service and then say the guy is shit at the end of the season.
What I really loved seeing was Frings tackling. Obviously minus the big miss at half before the Shea goal. But where the fuck were the defenders?
"I talked to the team right away from the beginning, that's what I'm here for. We have a young team and I want to show them leadership, and that's what I (possess). I want to give them some confidence and motivation because we're kind of on a losing streak right now."- FringsFROM HERE ON OUT, THIS IS HOW WE WILL DESCRIBE OUR PERFORMANCE (GERMAN ACCENT AND ALL).
Last night was the first time I stood at the top of 111 in weeks and it was just a reminder of how bad it has gotten. I really hope some seats open up so I can move the hell out of there next season. Standing for a match is great but whats the point if your not making any noise? Your just a prawn with better knees.
I counted, and unless I missed eight, Frings had two bad passes in the entire match, and one instance where he was late to a ball.
two simple passes in the second half by Frings were badly received by TFC players and went out for Dallas throws. So I wouldn't fault Frings on those two. I think Borman was one of the receivers and he needed to be more aware.
ag futbol
FCD has two pretty good defenders back there. I’d say we can expect an industrial but unspectacular performance from Koevermans for his first game out. I think they said he was further away from full fitness than Frings so maybe a 65th minute sub will be seen as well. Frings will win the ball a lot but will probably have some issues linking up going forward with new teammates.
I declare ag futbol the winner of the pint: ag futbol, PM me to collect.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
With the next game scheduled for Saturday, this match fitness issue will continue for the next while.
^ not directed to anyone specific. im strangely seeing a lot of positivity after a loss, im thankful for many of the realists on here. i'm seeing what ive wanted to see, progress. if you want to debate that progress, ask yourself what the margin would've been like if we kept the squad we had 2 weeks ago on the pitch for this game (sans ecks).
Last edited by __wowza; 07-21-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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