View Poll Results: Is TFC a stronger club as a result of the recent transactions?

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  • Yes, TFC has improved the roster

    220 89.43%
  • No, TFC has weakened the roster

    5 2.03%
  • The trades will have a negligible impact

    21 8.54%
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Thread: Rate the Trades

  1. #1
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    Default Rate the Trades

    The impact of the trades this past week will not likely be demonstrable until all the players involved settle in with their new clubs, but based on your initial impression, how do you rate Aron Winter and Paul Mariner's performance in addressing the roster situation?

    Incoming:

    Ryan Johnson
    Terry Dunfield
    Andy Iro
    Leandre Griffit

    Outgoing:

    Nana Attakora
    Alan Gordon
    Jacob Peterson
    Tony Tchani

    We are all familiar with the circumstances that led to the departure of the players formerly on TFC's roster. Of the four players that have left Toronto, Alan Gordon was the only player that contributed this season, and he was hampered by recurring injuries. Nana and Tchani are arguably the most significant losses based on their youth and potential upside, but for the most part, neither of them impressed in their limited appearances this season. Jacob Peterson is a serviceable backup forward at best, but his salary was not relative to his worth whatsoever.

    With respect to the new players being added to the roster, TFC has added capable players that have fallen out of favor with their previous coaches for various reasons, but they have a fairly impressive collective pedigree that should provide an immediate impact to the first team.

    In particular, Ryan Johnson may be the wildcard. In 2009, while playing his natural role as a striker, Johnson was lauded for his efforts as the leading scorer for San Jose with 11 goals, and earned the Team MVP award. Last season, Johnson was asked to adapt to a role as a winger, and although his goal production dropped off considerably since then, he has been widely acknowledged as the primary reason for Chris Wondolowski's breakout season, and his impressive assist totals can attest to his impact.

    Terry Dunfield was one of Vancouver's standout players in the midfield earlier in the season, but his role was inexplicably reduced once Thordarson was replaced with Soehn. As a veteran presence with a great work ethic, he should be able to lead by example on the pitch and provide a positive influence in the locker room.

    Likewise, Andy Iro is a solid defender who fell victim to the numbers game in Columbus following a coaching change in the off season, and he saw his starting role reduced to that of a backup, much to the chagrin of many supporters. Although he lacks pace, Iro should be a formidable presence in the central defence pairing.

    Leandre Griffit is a talented journeyman winger that has been unable to stick with a club throughout his career thus far. He was never given a legitimate opportunity in Columbus to play siginificant minutes, but perhaps he can excel in Toronto, where he should receive ample opportunities to impress. At worst, he will provide depth on the wings, which is a luxury TFC has never enjoyed throughout it's existence.

    Overall, I think the change of scenery will benefit all of the players involved in the transactions. I also believe TFC is a stronger squad today than it was last week, with added character and depth, and the ability to be far more competitive in the immediate future.
    Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 07-16-2011 at 09:05 AM.

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    B+..

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    hahaha we got a scouse CB

    A+

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    A nice analysis. I will miss Nana and Tony - mostly because of their potential - but I think that the new group fits well with the strengths of our new DPs, and the direction that Winter wants to take the team. I suspect (hope) that there's another defender waiting in the wings for next week.

    Unfortunately, I also think that it will take another couple of weeks (at least) for the new group to start to jell, as they become familiar with each other, so I hope (but rather doubt) that we can cut them a little slack.

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    Clearly, Mariner was not going to be content waiting until the off season to make improvements.

    One of the hallmarks of good management (in any profession), is asking the question: "How can I improve my team?" every day. They brought in a central defender, which they desperately needed. They also made some moves in the midfield. Tchani had a lot of potential, but he gave away possession too easily. Gordon made the offense better-when he was healthy. Attakora was on the outs-despite his ability. Peterson was clearly a salary dump.

    At least they have a few days to train together. I guess I'll need a program this Wednesday.

    I'll grade it an Incomplete, until we see how these guys bed in. But, I am encouraged by management's refusal to be passive as the team struggles.

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    I really don't like rating these trades until few games have gone and we can see how the new players do on the pitch. On paper though, these look like solid trades for TFC
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Given it was part of rebalancing the roster after the arrival of the two DPs something would be seriously wrong if the trades weakened the roster. These moves should be a case of taking full advantage of MLSE's largesse (albeit largely with our money) to upgrade the team. It's a case of too much too soon in his career right now for Plata so an experienced option was definitely needed on the left, while the void to be filled at centre back is obvious. Dunfield eventually should only be cover so the key thing to watch is Griffit. I suspect he was part of the price that had to be paid to get Iro and if he doesn't get traded on it will be interesting to see if he can give Soolsma a run for his money and displace him from the starting lineup by the end of the season. If he does the trades will move from what should on paper only at this stage be a competent and sensibly timed roster overhaul to a very good day at the office.

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    Where is the "too soon to be making rash judgements" box?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    I really don't like rating these trades until few games have gone and we can see how the new players do on the pitch. On paper though, these look like solid trades for TFC
    Agreed, on paper these trades should be good for TFC, fingers crossed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFCRegina View Post
    Where is the "too soon to be making rash judgements" box?


    Woah, woah, woah! Does that mean its too soon to be giving eachother hand jobs at this point from sheer anticipation of us tearing this league up?

    I voted yes to the poll by the way... but would have selected a "too soon option had it been there"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFCRegina View Post
    Where is the "too soon to be making rash judgements" box?
    No rash judgements, just opinions based on the background information available on the players involved. Johnson, Dunfield, Iro, and Griffit are known commodities in MLS.
    Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 07-16-2011 at 09:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManUtd4ever View Post
    No rash judgements, just opinions based on the background information available on the players invlolved. Johnson, Dunfield, Iro, and Griffit are known commodities in MLS.
    If every player performs up to standard, I approve. Dunfield was a coup, either way you look at it.

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    I'm tilting towards positive but obviously waiting to see em play

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    I agree on paper it is an improvement. But will the team chemistry be there? We can only wait and see. I am glad Winter/Mariner for acknowledged the problems (how could you not based on our record) and are attempting to do something about it instead of just muddling through the balance of the season.

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    On paper, injuries aside then I think it's pretty even. The moves make sense though because of the limited playing time Attakora has seen under Winter (not including injury), and limited playing time Alan Gordon has played due to injury. Also we had way too many DMs and one had to go.

    So we are certaintly more balanced at this point and we've filled holes by trading players that were surplus or constantly injured.

    I think both teams we traded with are happy with their deal and so are we.

    And yes, we are definately stronger then we were before the trades because of what I mentioned above.

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    On paper, I like the trades. Dunfield adds grit to a spineless midfield. Iro is a physical beast that won't back down from a challenge. Ryan Johnson can score, but also can add a bit of flair from wing. Add in Koevermans and Frings, you have a totally different TFC team that should be more mentally tough than before at least.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    With 6 new faces, an interesting poll question would be how soon do you start to expect improved results? (or how long before we see a fire Winter thread if they have a few challenges out of the gate?)

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    too early to tell

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    I honestly can't imagine the team being any worse than they have been over the last 3 months, so by elimination I voted yes.

    But I'm hoping that the improvement will be more of a leap than a step...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    With 6 new faces, an interesting poll question would be how soon do you start to expect improved results? (or how long before we see a fire Winter thread if they have a few challenges out of the gate?)
    I expect to see significant improvement immediately, as the overall football IQ of the club should be substantially greater now. I don't expect TFC to necessarily win their next 5 matches in a row, but with the additions of Frings, Koevermans, and the new players acquired via trades, I would be extremely disappointed if the club is not in a position to at least earn a result in every match from this point forward, regardless of the initial adjustment period.
    Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 07-16-2011 at 01:31 PM.

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    The one constant in these deals is that the players we're getting are all positionally smart players. They know where to be. Tchani did too, but his technique and work rate were kinda shit sometimes.

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    I'm looking forward to the positive effect these trades are going to make on the immediate play of the team.

    Liked Tchani but as mentioned above, was still too raw, bad touches and passes, still early in his development.

    I dont know why but I have a feeling Dunfield is going to be a nice surprise and play really well.

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    i don't understand ratings unless they're in the form of ibrahim heads anymore



    i think i have brain damage

  24. #24
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    why was this question even asked?

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    I think these trades on their own a slight improvement but nothing significant. They key here is whether this group fits better with the new DPs. And whether it allows certain players to play their natural positions (ie. Ecks & Yourassowki).

    Based on that yes this is an improvement. The next consideration for me will be whether Winter will know how to get the best out of this group. It's no secret I don't rate Winter's coaching ability very highly.

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    Ultimately, Johnson for DeRo: Wonder why this is a last place team?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Ultimately, Iro, Borman, Griffit, and a 1st round pick for DeRo
    Fixed

  28. #28
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    Well, the team wasn't playing together at all, and this represents a heart transplant. They either had to do that, or release the manager. So it's definitely positive from that POV.

    The first trade was quite clever, freeing up cap space, roster slots, and getting an international slot. Very nice. But the second, omg. The team's only real core assets going into this were Tchani, and superdraft picks, and maybe Frei. (I find the fact that the majority of people here are saying "good riddance" to Tchani among the most amazing things I've seen in 4+ years around here.) Since TFC come out of the trades with one fewer core asset than they went into it with, I am not wild about the deals, but am hoping that Iro is a stud, but that is a big if. Even if he is, if Tchani pans out, WinterMariner may have made the blunder of a lifetime on that second trade.

    In general, trades are by definition mostly zero-sum exercises. It's easy to effect "change" without getting better. I feel that the true test in MLS is drafting, and your non-DP signings. Edu and Dichio and Guevara were brought in a long time ago, and we haven't done much in these areas since then. But that's a different thread...
    Last edited by ensco; 07-16-2011 at 04:14 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Fair points ensco, time will tell if Tchani was worth giving up for Iro. I don't get the sense that anyone was saying good riddance to Tchani though, I see it as just criticism of his performance this season. That being said, I also would have preferred if he was retained and given time to develop, but the current state of our backline forced management into a making a difficult decision, and in their estimation, a necessary sacrifice.
    Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 07-16-2011 at 05:40 PM.

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    Where is jury is still out?

 

 

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