Is Julian de Guzman Leaving TFC?

[Roogsy]

You talk to people in a unkind and condescending manner, you always have. There is no mandate.While most members probably say nothing as you are a member as well as a mod. I don't care that you are either.

I don't like being spoken to like that and neither do most people. I'm just pointing out what I know many people think. I can do that if I like...I didn't swear this time.

So your answer is to respond like for like? That doesn't do much for your claims of a reasonable "adult" way of dealing with it does it?

Can I be condascending at times? I admit it. Partly because of the frustration of dealing with these things, and partly because the internet has a way of broadcasting a message inaccurately. Where there was no error was in the insulting and offensive way you decided to deal with me. If you think the ends justifies the means, that's your concern not mine. But certainly I give you less credit today and less consideration than before because you have shown to intentionally choose to deal with a disagreement in the most childish way possible and then blame the other side for your failure to be a reasonable human being. Did I steal your crops? Hit your children? Set your house on fire? No. I disagreed with you in a way you objected and your response was to become vulgar and abusive. Sorry, but that gives your argument about "how to deal with people" a whole lot less weight.

I am done with you. *block*

[Roogsy]

They will buy him out on the contract terms,two DPs are coming,locker room will be cleaned in July once again to get rid of the dead wood to make space for new signings,and they are everywhere right now looking for players.MLS will do a favor to TFC as they are dong it for years already to LAG and NYRB and we will have magic allocation money to spend and improve the roster.

ML$E is ready to spend ,let's hope they will spend the money right.

I think TFC is looking for a DPs who are very "marketable" players for them at money they will demand,instead of looking for a DPs that will help the team short/long term.

I think the issue right now with the buyout is the hit on the cap space. They will get smoked on the cap space and won't be able to bring in the 1 or 2 DPs they want if the JDG deal doesn't give them the room they need. I don't know if the CBA allows for any flexibility in this regard.

[Boondaddy]

But of course. It's better to run around in the dark blindly feeling your way around trying to make sense of it all. I never knew ignorance could be so much fun!

Just for the record, this is when and where the thread went south. Tell us how this is NOT provocation?

[Suds]

Can we take the pissing match offline.

I'm honestly getting closer every day to not visiting these boards. Fuck sakes! If the post is not about TFC the mods should delete it.

[MG42]

[Fort York Redcoat]

Suds has called it. Let's leave the personal stuff out and talk about the player in which the thread is named.

Please.

[Boondaddy]

Right. You represent the majority of posters on the RPB boards. Glad you've received that mandate clearly and without question. First job to start with: use name-calling and insults to show how reasonable your position is. Good job!

I'd rather believe what I see with my own eyes. A handful of "stalkers" who are the only ones that choose to follow me around disagreeing with me while the rest of us pay attention to what is actually happening at this club and begin ringing alarm bells.

You guys should start an anti-Roogsy fanclub.

Listen man, you are seriously barking up the wrong tree on this one....WAY out of order.

[Fort York Redcoat]

They will buy him out on the contract terms,two DPs are coming,locker room will be cleaned in July once again to get rid of the dead wood to make space for new signings,and they are everywhere right now looking for players.MLS will do a favor to TFC as they are dong it for years already to LAG and NYRB and we will have magic allocation money to spend and improve the roster.

ML$E is ready to spend ,let's hope they will spend the money right.

I think TFC is looking for a DPs who are very "marketable" players for them at money they will demand,instead of looking for a DPs that will help the team short/long term.

I think the issue right now with the buyout is the hit on the cap space. They will get smoked on the cap space and won't be able to bring in the 1 or 2 DPs they want if the JDG deal doesn't give them the room they need. I don't know if the CBA allows for any flexibility in this regard.

These were the last discussion points.

Please. Your comments...

[Batman]

tired of this bs... lets move on..

[Pigfynn]

I agree Suds and FYR.

I just was just expressing myself after a person who is charged with moderating a message board I help pay for was obviously pushing this JDG discussion into personal territory.

[Batman]

I agree Suds and FYR.

I just was just expressing myself after a person who is charged with moderating a message board I help pay for was obviously pushing this JDG discussion into personal territory.

I don't disagree, but it's also probably just as well for both of you to drop it.

As we've seen before, this argument will never end. I think we're into month 7 of this if we include all the De Ro nonsense.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Noted. Everyone carry on


and feel free to report posts or pm myself or any other mods.


I'll now clear my Pm box...

[denime]

I think the issue right now with the buyout is the hit on the cap space. They will get smoked on the cap space and won't be able to bring in the 1 or 2 DPs they want if the JDG deal doesn't give them the room they need. I don't know if the CBA allows for any flexibility in this regard.

True,this is where MLS "favor" will play a huge role,of course if they decide to do us a"favor" like they always do to LAG and NYRB.

[Pookie]

I think the issue right now with the buyout is the hit on the cap space. They will get smoked on the cap space and won't be able to bring in the 1 or 2 DPs they want if the JDG deal doesn't give them the room they need. I don't know if the CBA allows for any flexibility in this regard.

I think you are thinking about the salary cap more like a true salary cap. This isn't the NHL and MLS really has a soft cap at best (where is that dust2 guy??)

They have roughly 400k-600k in space right now, outside of MLS' mysterious allocation money. That's with his max cap hit on the roster.

As for JDG, the MLS rules allow for:

Teams may have the ability to buyout one guaranteed player as follows:

- A Team may buy out one (1) guaranteed player (including a DP’s) contract during the off-season and free up the corresponding budget space. Such a buyout is at the particular MLS Team’s own expense.

- A Team may not free up budget space with a buyout of a player’s salary budget charge during the season. Such a buyout will be conducted by the League and count on a Club’s budget in a manner consistent with current MLS guidelines.

As I understand it, the second option would charge carry a budget charge against our cap but could be lowered from the $335k cap max based on the amount of the settlement.

Given that MLS also has this mysterious allocation money system that can buy down a cap hit of a DP, there is the appearance of flexibility to lower that buy out amount.

In any event, if the buy out happened now, it would only impact us this year and there is the real chance that it could have less of an impact than the $335k cap max hit that (we suspect) it currently does.

[nfitz]

How much time is left on de Guzman's contract?

[Roogsy]

I did know about the off-season cap space relief, which is why I believe it was a poor decision by management not to make this decision of a buyout in the off-season when the cap relief would have been much clearer.

I know TFC can buy him out now but as you pointed out, the figures get murky and we all know the league fudges the numbers to make things work. Maybe they will make things work in this case for us.

Either way, if it's done before the end of the season, it has a detrimental effect on our cap space, it's just a matter of how much and whether it impacts any ability to bring in new DP(s).

[Fort York Redcoat]

(where is that dust2 guy??)

BS search "salary cap"

Every hit will be him as OP

TRUTH

[Pookie]

I did know about the off-season cap space relief, which is why I believe it was a poor decision by management not to make this decision of a buyout in the off-season when the cap relief would have been much clearer.

I know TFC can buy him out now but as you pointed out, the figures get murky and we all know the league fudges the numbers to make things work. Maybe they will make things work in this case for us.

Either way, if it's done before the end of the season, it has a detrimental effect on our cap space, it's just a matter of how much and whether it impacts any ability to bring in new DP(s).

"Detrimental" is probably a strong word but impact is there. At most, his cap hit is $335k. We don't know whether allocation money is being used to buy down his cap hit from that $335k to something in the $175k range. Further, details of a settlement could bring that budget charge down even lower. Impact yes but not necessarily prohibitive.

There is also the chance that TFC could send him off on "Loan" for the remainder of the season and then buy him out in the off season. No cap hit there.

A "Transfer" would be a long shot given the size of the contract.

[Roogsy]

On the loan issue, you'd have to look at whether the remaining portion not picked up by the loaning club is still chargeable to the salary cap. I highly doubt there is any team out there willing to pick up JDG at his full salary, TFC would have to offer salary relief.

At this point, I think JDG is becoming too big a lightning rod of criticism for this club, to the point where removing the focus on him might be worth it just for the PR. The problem? New PR issues arise including changing the "face of the team" twice in a season.

[TFC07]

Can we take the pissing match offline.

I'm honestly getting closer every day to not visiting these boards. Fuck sakes! If the post is not about TFC the mods should delete it.

Same here and agreed.

BTW, I notice it's usually RPB members who doing this not non-RPB members but we'll get blamed somehow though.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If you keep bringing it up. Yes you will. Regardless of your status.

[Pookie]

On the loan issue, you'd have to look at whether the remaining portion not picked up by the loaning club is still chargeable to the salary cap. I highly doubt there is any team out there willing to pick up JDG at his full salary, TFC would have to offer salary relief.

I may be wrong but my understanding of "loans" is that while the loaning club picks up the salary (or a portion thereof), there is no cap hit since the player is no longer available to the club for the "active roster."

[Roogsy]

Shoot...then we need to loan his ass out now for whatever a team pays us!


Good for us. Good for his career. Good for the fans.

If it's cents on the dollar we get back, then it is what it is.

[menefreghista]

Unless things have changed, I always remember there being no cap relief for loaning out players.

[brad]

They will buy him out on the contract terms,two DPs are coming,locker room will be cleaned in July once again to get rid of the dead wood to make space for new signings,and they are everywhere right now looking for players.MLS will do a favor to TFC as they are dong it for years already to LAG and NYRB and we will have magic allocation money to spend and improve the roster.

ML$E is ready to spend ,let's hope they will spend the money right.

I think TFC is looking for a DPs who are very "marketable" players for them at money they will demand,instead of looking for a DPs that will help the team short/long term.

Is this speculation on your part, or info you are hearing?

The MLS doing us a favor like they've done in LA makes sense. We are (or were - not sure) a very profitable team now dying a slow and painful death. In a revenue shared league, they won't want that to happen.

[Oldtimer]

I did know about the off-season cap space relief, which is why I believe it was a poor decision by management not to make this decision of a buyout in the off-season when the cap relief would have been much clearer.

FWIW, Winter was surprised by JDG's under-performance here, so why would he have tried to buy out the contract before he saw him play? Remember that la liga background counts for a lot.

DeRo was a different story, as Anselmi had probably decided that he had to go after the salary dispute, and the only delay was Mariner trying to get some value when the decision had already been made.

[Roogsy]

Damn... I can't get a straight answer!

It's not a big deal if we don't understand the ramifications of these moves, but hopefully our FO does.

[brad]

At this point, I think JDG is becoming too big a lightning rod of criticism for this club, to the point where removing the focus on him might be worth it just for the PR. The problem? New PR issues arise including changing the "face of the team" twice in a season.

Depends on else they do. If what Denime posted about targeting marketable DP's is true and pans out, I don't see this being an issue.

Most people in the stands thing JDG sucks anyway, so they won't be sad to see him go.

[ManUtd4ever]

The MLS doing us a favor like they've done in LA makes sense. We are (or were - not sure) a very profitable team now dying a slow and painful death. In a revenue shared league, they won't want that to happen.

Agreed. Last year, Henry and Marquez were giftwrapped for the Red Bulls by MLS head office during a crucial stage in the recovery of that franchise.

Unless the MLS is prepared to watch a former marquee franchise vanquish into oblivion, I think Toronto is in line for some preferential treatment along the lines of New York and Los Angeles.

[Roogsy]

FWIW, Winter was surprised by JDG's under-performance here, so why would he have tried to buy out the contract before he saw him play? Remember that la liga background counts for a lot.

DeRo was a different story, as Anselmi had probably decided that he had to go after the salary dispute, and the only delay was Mariner trying to get some value when the decision had already been made.

On the first point, Winter should have done that because having your holding midfielder earn 10x what the rest of the players are earning on average was a mistake. And his performance in the previous year and a half should have spoken to Winter more than what he did in Spain 2 years prior. That and the crisis it had created with the team's leading scorer.

JDG still has a "La Liga" background, that will never change. Does this mean he should still command the salary he is earning? At some point that is a less relevant argument for his contract. I think the off-season should have dealt with that.

I will believe until the day I die that Winter came in completely clueless as to what the impact of a "salary cap" would have on the skill-level of his team and learned the hard way.

Which leads to the 2nd point. I don't want this to be a DeRo thread so I will keep it short, and despite having said this several times, I'd like this to be the last. Winter's intention was to keep DeRo. Despite all the speculation, Winter felt DeRo fit into his system. The issue was and remained his contract. On the Anselmi comment, it never happened and for that I am thankful because if Anselmi gets input on roster decisions then we're far more screwed than we thought we were. Winter was not trying to get value because Mariner is the one that handles those issues and Mariner was working on settling the contract issue first and foremost. Only when the two-sides reached an impasse did the trade option open up and there were already teams prepared to make deals, it's not like Mariner had to negotiate for long. It all happened quite quickly.