JDG was hurt against USA, thus not dressed.
That said JDG was never going to be the players though he was here. I never thought he would be a good fit and Im sad my prophecy back when he was signed came true. He has lost confidence, skills have diminished and lost what was a growing fan base coming to TFC.
He had everything to lose and a few dollars to gain. Should have stayed in Spain at a cheaper price.
Maybe not many fans, but apparently has received threats. He laughed them off, saying that at least people care here just like in Europe.Originally Posted by ginkster88
I for one do think he can be criticized for lack of goals, we're not talking 10 a season here, he hasn't even got 1! Compared to other DMs in the MLS his offensiveness in the league has been awful, it's strange considering he averages one every 11 games for the CMNT.
It is sad that it has come down to this for a dedicated Canadian national.
He is not a good fit for TFC, but I for one will not celebrate if he leaves.
Moderator
This is probably the best assessment a person can make of de Guzman. Nobody should have expected he was going to pack away the goals, simply because he's not a striker, but a supportive defensive mid. However, in that capacity alone as you pointed out, he earns his pay only occasionally. I certainly think we can do better for the money we are paying for him.
However,
Again I have to ask the question - Is Julian simply leaving for a chance to play in Europe again and the club is willing to accommodate his wish with no hard feelings? Or is this a case of a breakdown in the relationship between a club and player?
Personally, I haven't heard or seen any evidence that suggests de Guzman and the club have had a falling out so I'm going to believe that if the rumour is true, both parties will likely negotiate toward a mutually beneficial goal in good faith. But as always, this is all speculative as the rumour is still unconfirmed.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Considering the harsh words Winter had about JDG the last couple of games, I would say the interest from TFC to do without his services is at least enough for fans to think this rumour is at least possible.
Moderator
Harsh words? I dunno, that sounds a bit...well...harsh.
I know Winter thinks he could be doing more, but I haven't seen the same sort of shenanigans that went on with, say DeRo and the club. That's why I don't think we're seeing a "rift" here between him and TFC, but the scenario you mention is entirely plausible (ie: he's not living up to his pay grade and the club thinks they can bring in someone who does).
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 06-10-2011 at 11:34 PM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
If it becomes clear that JDG has shown a lack of loyalty to the badge, is he dead to all the previous Dero haters?
Just wondering where the line is???
Toronto 'til I die although still a Leeds fan at heart...
It's hard to judge his ability to perform as a defensive mid on a team that has had so-so defence at best since he's been here. He's not a goal scorer, so his numbers won't pop like a DeRo, so basically he just joined at the wrong time. However, I can say that I've not seen him live up to his supposed skill level either for more than half the games he's played. Julian DeSnuzman. *sigh*
That little twat can fuck off back to Europe and play for a 3rd tier team if he's fortunate to land one.
I am Canadian too and I have more talent in my left fucking nut than that fucking fuck!
Goodfuckingbye.
KD.
I am actually surprised at the level of animosity here towards JDG.
I have always thought that fans would at least appreciate effort. And while I am not a huge fan of JDG, nor have I ever thought that his signing was a good one for TFC (from the start, I said he was a bad choice for a DP), I would still thank a player who tried his best for us and represented our city (and country remember) as best he could.
And I will be disappointed his stay here wasn't a more successful one. Who knows? Given different management, and different choices from the organization, maybe he could have been more successful. Lord knows I won't place the full blame of his underperformance on him alone. There is some logic in the argument that his success in Europe was no fluke.
I am beginning to question my involvement with other supporters though that shit on the players that do all the heavy lifting for this team but support management that do everything in their power to fuck up a good thing.
He was a crap fit for the team playing at position which made it difficult for people to appreciate his calibre. Was he a hard grafter? Hard to say. I wish all the best.
You also have to consider WHY he left Spain. He spoke up about unpaid wages. If memory serves me right, it was in the $1million range. Wouldn't you speak up if it was that much? Or even 1/4 of the amount?
Because he spoke out, he got black listed in a sense.
I'm a JDG fan but with the exception of a few glimpses he's not been overly effective here sadly. I think he's the type of player that needs to play with "good" players. How many times have his passes resulted in turnovers because his team mates can't read/have footy IQ. Let's be honest, the squad a La Coruna is light years ahead of what we have here.
Good player, bad fit.
Now watch him tear up the Gold Cup for the CMNT. lol
I still for 1 can't understand WHY there's no other DP here. It's not as if having JDG was really hurting the cap at all... but I don't really understand the MLS rules.. lol
Hilarious. Everyone wants him gone and then when it might happen, they carry one like spurned lovers (well, in King Dave's case, a drunk asshole of a spurned lover).
I don't think he was ever a good fit for MLS, especially on a squad so meagre of talent. The club probably shouldn't add a DP in his place (if he is gone) until they know what the hell they are doing on the pitch... which is not yet.
The sooner JDG is gone the better. Not that it is a meant as a slight to his ability, but as was clear from day -1, this was a horribly misguided move on both parts. TFC has gained no appreciable benefit from JDG's presence on the squad, and JDG's reputation as a professional footballer can (fairly or unfairly) only have been negatively affected by his time with TFC. A DP has to do more than JDG can, otherwise he is just a waste of money at best, and a disruptive presence in the locker room at worst. Designated players need to make the players around them better; it is not intended to work the other way around.
Im not saying JDG is bad. I think he generally plays great for Canada, but he is just an unbelievably horrible fit for Toronto FC.
And maybe once JDG is gone we can bring back DeRo!
Initially I thought JDG would bring immeasurable improvement to the Toronto midfield and it became clear over the last two seasons how wrong I was.
I can't say JDG isn't talented. I'll never say that and I agree maybe it could have been different had he been brought in in different circumstances. The way JDG was brought in was a real problem...IE: The Dichio Situation and it led to an inauspicious start for an inauspicious time here. But that's all it was, was a start. The real problem for me was that JDG looked like he wanted to be somewhere else the whole time he's been here and that's where I've been pretty pissy towards him as of late. As you've said, the club hasn't given much to play for but still, other players have played here and put in a decent effort despite problems with the FO.
If JDG terminates, and TFC agrees, I won't blame either side. JDG just hasn't worked out for us (and it seems he's that way with the Nats now too -sadly) and JDG might still have a career elsewhere. I can't wish him anything but luck.
everything's been said, however, jdg and dero are 2 of the best players canada have ever produced. it suprises me how many piss on them. i can pee on 'the whore' and maybe ass-smear, but, i will never do it on dero or jdg. jdg will flourish elsewhere, like a flower with lots of fertilizer. tfc has no fertilizer.
No player should ever get a blank cheque from the fans based solely on their nationality. If Julian De Guzman was as good as some of the more hardcore CMNT supporter types seem to think he is, he would have looked like a dominant player in an MLS context regardless of who was playing around him. He hasn't simple as that and that has to call into question whether he is actually as good as he has been hyped up to be. JDG was handed a chance to be a hometown hero and blew it big time. Now it's time for TFC to use the DP rule to bring in a player who actually deserves a seven figure salary and who can make a genuine difference to the team's level of play in much the same way Angel did for RBNY or Schelotto did with the Crew.
Last edited by CSO_BBTB; 06-11-2011 at 04:16 AM.
Moderator
Yeah, as a central defensive midfielder I don't expect him to be "a goalscorer", but when he gets his chances, I expect a lot more than what we've gotten. Every JDG shot on goal ends up being a satellite launch.
Considering he has put in time as an attacking midfielder for Canada, and played reasonably well, I expected a lot more from him in his offensive looks.
I don't hate him or anything, but his time here has been inconsistent and disappointing. Right from the start, any happiness from the fanbase was tempered by knowing that JDG didn't really want to come to TFC. And he played that way for a long time.
- Scott
Last edited by Shakes McQueen; 06-11-2011 at 04:24 AM.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Moderator
I won't celebrate, but I won't be unhappy.
If he leaves, I hope he manages to get a gig in upper tier football again, and I hope he represents Canada well on the world stage again.
There's a Louis C.K. bit where he points out that "no good marriage has ever ended in divorce". I think that's the case here. Divorce is never something to celebrate, but at the same time, I don't think the TFC-JDG marriage is a good one.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
there's rumours? first i heard *shrug*
I can't totally agree with you on JDG being one of the top Canadians, but I'm only going on the performances I've seen live.
As far as TFC not having the fertilizer... couldn't disagree more!!
TFC is full of manure!
I'm with you on that, Roogsy. I understand people being frustrated, but animosity? That I don't get.
Before this thread take a crazy turn, let's all remember this is just a rumour that has not been verified in any way at this point. Secondly, while JDG may not have panned out in many peoples eyes, I'll submit the guy has been nothing short of professional. I do not recall him being negative towards the club, the city, or the players. (and that does not include calling players out because that's normal in sports)
It may be clear to JDG that the move to the MLS has not worked out the way he liked. (me speculating) Or it could be that TFC is thinking this. (again, me speculating)
This happens all the time and when the parties decide a change may be in the best interest for all they move on. So, if there is any validity at all to this rumour let's not jump the gun and make a pariah out of another guy.
Quite honestly, Winter/Mariner showed big balls in ridding the team of DeRo and his sideshow.
If they don't address the JDG situation with the same professionalism and objectivity, it will have the same undermining effect as keeping DeRo would have had.
JDG has simply never lived up to his contract and Winter has indicated that he is unhappy with his performance. At some point, the player runs out of chances and like the divorce analogy, this was a player that absolutely controlled the pitch in previous circumstances. It may be best for him to move on as well.
The MLS experience wasn't one that he actively sought, it was one that he reluctantly accepted. On to better things for both sides.
Last edited by Pookie; 06-11-2011 at 07:22 AM.
bgnewf, good article. Another angle that always puzzled me about JDG was Mo's stated belief that the DP had to be Canadian.
Clearly, we weren't shopping based on team needs on the pitch. We were shopping based on selling merchandise and image.
Agreed Pookie, and that's a worrying window into how MLSE operates this franchise (because to them that's all it is, not a team, a money spinning franchise).
We are the Angry Mob, we read the papers every day
We like who we like, we hate who we hate
But we're also easily swayed
Not quite 100% of the time - last season he miss hit the ball so badly, from the top of the box, it went for a throw in
"...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."
Agreed.
No animosity. Just bafflement. (Is that a word?)
JDG was a starter for one of the better teams in Spain. Most of us never saw him play there, but he has to have been terrific at Depor. We did see him on the CMNT, and he was a total CMNT stud for years - just off the top of my head, he dominated that Canada-Jamaica WC qualifier at BMO, and scored that beauty against Brazil in Seattle, right before he came here.
It's truly bizarre. That player vanished the second he arrived at TFC.
Something else has to have been going on, maybe in his personal life.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
we understand what you mean, so it's a word.
It's like the 'low key' version of bewilderment.
Personally, I just look at it as a costly experiment that went on too long. IF we didn't have Winter and his 'system' coming in this season, then I would have expected JDG to be released from duties at the end of last season. you really can't ask for a better 2nd chance! In fact, the 2nd chance was catered directly to his style of play and he still managed to underwhelm (that's a word, right?)
///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote