Winter Approval Rating - May 2011

[__wowza]

You know the drill folks, we're three months into the season and currently sitting 7th in the east (15th overall). We've had a rough month with 7 games in 4 short weeks, including 3 away games. Now with 33.3333% new options (aka: the Dreadlocks/Shep option).. how do you feel Winter has performed so far?

Just some guidelines:

1. Its how you feel at the moment, not a final assessment. Like a marathon, this is just a snapshot of our support at this point in time. A low approval rating does not rate him as an overall failure, just like a high approval rating does not mean he's Sir Alex Ferguson.
2. Whatever factors or metrics your feel are most important to you in the coaching position, use those to guide you.

For the sake of context, this is how he / TFC have preformed in May:

W/W/L/T/T/T/L: 5 points out of a possible 15
(red text denotes NCC fixture)

Toronto FC v FC Edmonton
May 04: Win 1 - 0

Toronto FC v Houston Dynamo
May 07: Win 2 - 1

FC Dallas v Toronto FC
May 11: Loss 1 - 0

Toronto FC v Chicago Fire
May 14: Tie 2 - 2

Vancouver WC v Toronto FC
May 18: Tie 1 - 1

Colorado Rapids v Toronto FC
May 22: Tie 0 - 0

Toronto FC v Philadelphia Union
May 28: Loss 2 - 6


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[ManUtd4ever]

The results are obviously going to be skewed in the aftermath of our worst home defeat in franchise history.

Nontheless, I'm still on the fence.

[trane]

I still support him, but my support is starting to be tested. I love a defensively solid teams, allowing 6 goals leaves me speachless.

[P-NUTZ]

^ agree. but i am on the fence now because he has made some strange line up and positional choices, and the players don't appear mentally comfortable as a team to compete with any confidence or purpose. something's certainly not right psychologically.
IMO

[trane]

^ I cannot disagree with your assessment, I think I still support him because I want to stay positive for at least a while longer, starting over once again would be a bit too much to take for me at this point.

[Darlofletch]

I went yes.

after the seattle debacle he made changes and it kind of paid off with a string of performances that under the circumstances of the thin squad and all the games we had weren't that bad at all.

now we've had anohter debacle, so we'll see how he reacts to this, but let's face it, this is what this season's going to be all about, a series of small steps forward, with the occasional giant fall back. success will be determined by how long we can make the gap between disasters.

I agreed with the decision to rest cann, but our depth was really exposed. I'm not going to let one result take away from how we've looked better when not exhausted/shorthanded.

long way to go obviously, and I still have my doubts, but I'm still going with yes.

[Don Julio]

I'm more on the fence than I was a week ago, but at the same time sometimes things have to get worse (i.e. 6-2 drubbing) to really show what your problems are, and push you to find solutions.

[Detroit_TFC]

^ the two posts above are very sensible and the right way to look at things right now IMO.

[DichioTFC]

Posting this immediately after the worst loss in TFC history and the firing of two other coaches leaves results highly skewed.

Still, I answered yes. For me, he gets a pass for the season unless he does something incredibly boneheaded.

[TFCRegina]

Posting this immediately after the worst loss in TFC history and the firing of two other coaches leaves results highly skewed. If these aren't going to posted with regularity (Preki polls were the first of the month) make sure there's a lull in the news / schedule at least. To me, this poll puts more emphasis on measuring knee-jerk reactions rather than how we truly feel.

So that's what you mean when you say you do it for the lullz.

[Nestease]

Interesting note that two MLS coaches have been fired today. They are one win away from TFC's record and both have played less games. They are also better than TFC so far in all the stats. Good thing TFC are committed to Winter or he'd be under some serious heat right now.

[DichioTFC]

Also, I hate the maybe option with a passion. Sitting on the fence for something as simple / straightforward as this is nonsense, it's the easy option.

The 15 (so far) who answered 'maybe' do feel slightly more one way or another, and when pressed will give a yes or no response. Giving them an easy out sucks.

[ilikemusic]

I voted no.

Doesnt necessarily mean I think he should be fired, throwing another body onto pile of discarded coaches wont do the squad any good right now, or the club any good in the future, but I can not say that I approve of what I see on the pitch.

Also, I hate the maybe option with a passion. Sitting on the fence for something as simple / straightforward as this is nonsense, it's the easy option.

Agreed.

[ManUtd4ever]

Also, I hate the maybe option with a passion. Sitting on the fence for something as simple / straightforward as this is nonsense, it's the easy option.

The 15 (so far) who answered 'maybe' do feel slightly more one way or another, and when pressed will give a yes or no response. Giving them an easy out sucks.

It can be rationalized that Winter has earned both positive and negative recognition based on his overall performance as Coach/Technical Director in his inaugral season thus far.

I approve of the system he is trying to implement, I approve of the majority of players he's acquired, but I don't necessarily approve of his roster management on a consistent basis.

[ExiledRed]

I voted no.

Doesnt necessarily mean I think he should be fired, throwing another body onto pile of discarded coaches wont do the squad any good right now, or the club any good in the future.

The question is, is keeping an incompetent in charge going to be any better?

I dont want to have to do this shit over at the start of next season, and go through another year of figuring out whether we're 'rebuilding' or collapsing inward. Now is the time to pull the plug on this so called 'specialist' and this time, instead of giving some assistant a chance and waiting to see how he does for the rest of the season, start looking for an experienced 'fix it upper' immediately and tell the interim-manager that no, there isnt an opportunity to progress to full on coach.

[habstfc]

I voted yes, Stability for a couple seasons at least.

[ExiledRed]

I voted yes, Stability for a couple seasons at least.

Stability when you are crap is called stagnation

[Brooker]

Can people tell this early if he's up to the job? I can't....

[Beach_Red]

Can people tell this early if he's up to the job? I can't....

It isn't so much, him it's the job. If he'd just been hired to coach a soccer team, that would be one thing, but after the town halls, the apologies, the hiring of Klinsmann, all the talk of "culture" and systems and so on - it's reasonable to say that MLSE raised expectations and haven't come close to meeting them or even showing much in the way that they will be met.

Is it too soon? Realistically, maybe, but after all their talk and hype, no.

Winter, like so many before him here, will be the scapegoat.

[ExiledRed]

Can people tell this early if he's up to the job? I can't....

This should have been a qualification, not something we have to wait two seasons to figure out.

All signs point to no, by the way.

[ExiledRed]

Winter, like so many before him here, will be the scapegoat.

Not really, he's come here with a full understanding of the fan's frustration and the goal to immediately improve the situation, and yet he's basically stunk. He's either underestimated the league or overestimated his own abilities or both.

He shouldnt be given the convenient title of 'scapegoat' when he's bought nothing to the table but rigid adherence to a well studied system thats hard to implement, easy to beat, getting us nowhere and about as entertaining as Dharma and Greg reruns.

[Davenport]

Anyone who can choose Harden and Gargan to start is not a manager I can have a lot of faith in.
I want to give him a chance but so far he's not convinced me.
His new signings have not been impressive. Either he thinks that anyone from Europe can compete in this league or he's no spotter of talent.

[Beach_Red]

^ Pkay, maybe scapegoat isn't the right word. Maybe front man is a better way to put it. But do you think when Klinsmann called him and offered him the job Winter really knew the state of the FO? And do you think he has a lot of flexibility to make changes to the "system" tne consultant decided they should use?

[habstfc]

MLS is like junior b hockey of the soccer world. I don't think you need a coach with an oustanding coaching past to coach here. MLSE hired a consulting firm for advice and this is what we got. Winter isn't going anywhere (unless he resigns).

[rocktml]

Is there some kind of list of all the free agents for junes transfer window?

[ExiledRed]

MLS is like junior b hockey of the soccer world. I don't think you need a coach with an oustanding coaching past to coach here. MLSE hired a consulting firm for advice and this is what we got. Winter isn't going anywhere (unless he resigns).

Bollocks, TFC needs an MLS coach with notable experience to help it through some big problems that other teams arent having.

Also, its a tough league that requires extra understanding of a unique trading system that doesnt exist in other leagues. Its not a sunday job.

Theres no evidence that Klinsmann could do well coaching a team in this league either, I might add.

[ensco]

Also, its a tough league that requires extra understanding of a unique trading system that doesnt exist in other leagues. Its not a sunday job.

That's the least of it. The cap/DP system is complex and requires a real feel. The summer calendar makes player acquisition more complex, and means you lose players more often for international callups. Lastly, you have to have a feel for evaluating NCAA talent, which doesn't look like the youth backbone you see in most leagues (NCAA guys are not 19 year old kids, and have very little flair).

[tiberius]

Not really, he's come here with a full understanding of the fan's frustration and the goal to immediately improve the situation, and yet he's basically stunk. He's either underestimated the league or overestimated his own abilities or both.

Utter and complete rubbish! The goal WAS NOT to immediately improve the situation - that is your shortsighted dream/wish. The goals were long term - think three years, build a vision, build a complimentary team, build a style of play, strengthen an academy system that compliments and feeds the MLS team. Most of all, try to clean up 4 years of absolute crap that has accumulated in this organization.

Winter et al. are on there way to improving the team and shaping it - give it time. This is quite a (stinky and thankless) job to do, and anybody who won't give him until next spring to succeed in turning this titanic around is just not being realistic about the heavy lifting required for the job at hand, especially with the salary cap and other personel restrictions.

If at this point next year we have 12 points I will be the first to say "off with his head!" in the mean time we need to back off and chill a bit.

The fact that Harden and Gargan start a couple of games and blow it shouldn't take our long term vision too far off course here... - having the supporter groups climb up Winter's ass because he played Harden/Gargan is understandable, but also laughable. After us putting up with Garcia, the ultimate player in the MLS for finding new and creative ways to get the ball into the Toronto net, we really shouldn't get too upset by the occassional flub by Harden and Gargan - they can only bow down to Garcia - the grandmaster!

[ExiledRed]

Utter and complete rubbish! The goal WAS NOT to immediately improve the situation - that is your shortsighted dream/wish. The goals were long term - think three years, build a vision, build a complimentary team, build a style of play, strengthen an academy system that compliments and feeds the MLS team. Most of all, try to clean up 4 years of absolute crap that has accumulated in this organization.

Winter et al. are on there way to improving the team and shaping it - give it time. This is quite a (stinky and thankless) job to do, and anybody who won't give him until next spring to succeed in turning this titanic around is just not being realistic about the heavy lifting required for the job at hand, especially with the salary cap and other personel restrictions.

If at this point next year we have 12 points I will be the first to say "off with his head!" in the mean time we need to back off and chill a bit.

The fact that Harden and Gargan start a couple of games and blow it shouldn't take our long term vision too far off course here... - having the supporter groups climb up Winter's ass because he played Harden/Gargan is understandable, but also laughable. After us putting up with Garcia, the ultimate player in the MLS for finding new and creative ways to get the ball into the Toronto net, we really shouldn't get too upset by the occassional flub by Harden and Gargan - they can only bow down to Garcia - the grandmaster!

Sorry my bad, the goal wasn't to do something about flagging support, dropping ticket sales, abysmal results and unentertaining football, it was to develop an intangible concept over an ambiguous period of time and build something called a 'culture'?

Expecting a new coach to be able to well....coach is a shortsighted dream? give me a fricking break. This guy is blowing smoke, and so are all you people talking about football culture and long term systems that take years to properly implement.

Wake the fuck up, were a franchise team in MLS. Were five years old. The only 'culture' this team is ever going to have is walking out the stadium in droves.

[tiberius]

Sorry my bad, the goal wasn't to do something about flagging support, dropping ticket sales, abysmal results and unentertaining football, it was to develop an intangible concept over an ambiguous period of time and build something called a 'culture'?

Expecting a new coach to be able to well....coach is a shortsighted dream? give me a fricking break. This guy is blowing smoke, and so are all you people talking about football culture and long term systems that take years to properly implement.

Wake the fuck up, were a franchise team in MLS. Were five years old. The only 'culture' this team is ever going to have is walking out the stadium in droves.

You wake up - the 4 years of crap have nothing to do with Winter - he only received this team in the middle of winter ;-) The "culture" and most of the fans walked out of the stadium a couple of years ago - where have you been rip van winkle? I don't care if MLSE takes a complete and utter soaking in ticket sales and ST sales for next year - THAT IS THE ONLY THING THEY UNDERSTAND. We should all be praying that MLSE takes it in the ear this September with 4000 renewals - that might wake people up - that might get Tommy A. a promotion to somewhere else!

The situation at the end of four years was an total utter fucking mess. You really think any new coaching team coming in after Christmas is going to work a miracle. Me wake up? You dream on!

You want another Mista quick fix - knock yourself out.