Today's News,Friday,May,20
so what exactly is this "letter of committment" for academy players all about. I presumes clubs everywhere try and lock up their young players in one way or another, but I guess i just don't really trust mlse all that much, and presume that it's all about money and a potential future transfer fee.
sad that we're just releasing players thoiugh, especially aleman, who looked to have a future as good as his name. I guess all that altruistic talk of developing the game in canada etc etc is just talk if we can't directly benefit.
And on the flip side, any Academy needs a commitment that a player will stay to earn the most for themselves and the club, in development and transfer fee. I doubt MLS academies think much of what they can get for players on the transfer market so look to tying up players to contribute more to our own league/club.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I don't want this thread to spiral off topic, but seeing academy players refusing to make committments to the club is exaclty what some of us (the ones accused of always being negative) predicted would happen. Maybe now some people will understand that we're not downers because we like to be, we're critical of the club because we see things like this as being the predictable outcome of the way the club treats its players. The academy players who aren't good enough to have other options will stick around because they have no choice, but our top prospects won't put up with it.
Flipside: If one is interested they could follow the success of the 3 players leaving to possible euro prospects and compare that to the kids that have committed to our club and see who made a more sound decision in the coming seasons.
The Academy is just an extension of the club. If the people running it are not attracting/nuturing talent other people need to be added. This will happen sooner or later.
But one thing is for sure
Until our team wins everything in front of them some people will bitch about it. There's a balance between negative and positive.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
That might be true of some of the negative people, but others (like myself) just want the club to act professionally, to stop lying, to honour their word and to start treating their players with respect. If we win everything but don't do those things I won't be happy. If we do those things and not win I'll be A LOT more happy. I can (and do - Leeds) support a losing team, I can stick with my club through the worst of times. Obviously winning is better than losing, but its not the basis or a condistion of my support. Winning won't make the problems go away, but I'm willing to bet that making the problems go away will make us a winner.Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat
TFC ACADEMY TONIGHT AT LAMPORT!???
. . . . now with NORB
. . . . . . absorb it.
NOTICE: Wager with STB: OVER 2 shots on goal in the First half wins a Pint at HT.
^^CB I know well enough you know what it is to support through the toughest times a club has to offer let's just remember everything coming out of the media is spun one way, then gets here, we talk about it, it's spun the OTHER way and there is an amount of truth in both. I don't mind hearing the reality behind the soundbytes we get served but let's please not ignore entirely potential for improvement in dealing with players and of play in general.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I have it for tomorrow v Windsor. Is this the make up game for last week?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
It seems a simple enough thing to do, though, and we shouldn't have to wait too long for the potential to be realized.
The criticisms I read on this board are specific enough, and detailed enough, for me to realize they aren't just empty bitching about losing.
This bitching would disappear if the reasons for it did. No one expects a team to win every game, that's not the point. The bitching is almost always about the decisions the team makes where it has other options.
Yep, schedule says tomorrow. . . . how I confuse?
NOTICE: Wager with STB: OVER 2 shots on goal in the First half wins a Pint at HT.
I'm not saying this is empty bitching what I am saying is that what is happening here is the assumption that the proposal of commitment that the 3 players signed is being presumed to be unfair or unrealistic because of our past news of dealings with players and MLSE(the club really).
I understand the prejudice here but I wanted to point out we are not fully informed on reasons of the departure of these 3.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
yep coulda been tapped up by agents or clubs promisng great things.
Mostly im disappointed and i hope these kids do poorly (yep im petty like that)
Its still a pretty big gamble on their parts to up and leave like that.
Losing Keven Aleman is going to bite TFC in the ass....this kid has a very bright future. I do not understand the need for a press release and would have hoped they would have been able to secure him. This is a failure and a disappointment. No questio about it.
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mornin d
wow 2016 and things are looking up --- come on you reds lets go
Agreed, and even if it doesn't come across in my posts I am hopefully optimistic...I wouldn't be here if I wasn't
You're right, we don't know the details so its all speculative. Having said that, getting academy players to commit hasn't been a problem in the past. We have an example of Nana not wanting to make a long term committment (citing instability as his reason) and now we have three acamedy players (two of them very good players) refusing to commit as well. I'm sure a number of factors play into their decision, and I'm equally sure that at the very least seeing instability, contract disputes, the preception that players aren't being treated fairly don't help matters.
How many other MLS teams have problems getting commitments from their academy players?
It really sucks...local guy, star of Canada's U17 team (the goal that he scored against Trinidad was incredible!), compared to DeRo - he was better than anything that we're likely to see coming out of the NCAA system.
He's someone that we might have lost regardless of any issues surrounding our team.
Not on the same level, but Jonathan Lao also looked like a pretty good player, probably good enough to be a MLS squad player anyway. I've never seen Dino Gardiner (or if I have, he didn't stand out in any way) play so I can't comment on him.
Aleman was MVP at CONCACAF U17 few months ago,Bayern Munich is after him,kid made a right choice and I would too.
Do you really think that a kid from LA of NYRB would stay with them if he has a option to go the club like Bayern or MANU?I don't think so.It has nothing to do with TFC,it's all about MLS vs Europe.
Do we ever ask the question... why do you want to develop players that won't play for your team? We could have maybe kept Aleman on the Academy for a few more seasons to potentially watch him leave for nothing to Europe? Why wouldn't we as fans want that commitment?
I remember back when the Academy was being developed, the idea was that the players had to sign something that said that they were committed to TFC and Team Canada.
The club stated also that they didn't want to develop players that would go overseas and play for another country either (I believe).
I am onside with what the club did with these players, i'm disappointed that Aleman has decided to try his luck elsewhere - and hope he does well with it. But at the same time the Academy is still young, as we bring up players from when their 12-13 all the way through, we may see more loyalty to the club/team?
Bingo...players know MLS has cap restrictions and low wages...if a euro team is interested in a mls team's academy player of course the player would go...has nothing to do with TFC everything to do with wanting to get to europe...i am sure that any new academy players will be required to sign this waiver before they suit up with an academy team...
Good point Denime.
Academy players
I don't think there are any ulterior motives or backroom issues going on here. Of course TFC wants players they are training and investing in to make commitments to the club. That is normal because of the financial investment they are making. I don't think it's any secret TFC views the academy as both a way to develop players for the first team and once and a while be able to sell a prospect for a nice tidy sum of money. That happens at all kinds of clubs.
On the flip-side, we are going to have academy kids that are going to be of the pedigree to make a run at a club/league overseas. An athletes lifespan is pretty short and they need to maximize their chances for success. Take Aleman, he's played well in international youth tournaments so he will have been scouted and is probably being courted by some bigger clubs. In his case he probably feels making any long term commitment to TFC hinders his ability to make other choices.
Personally, I don't see any issue here at all. It's just a normal part of running an academy. Some kids will commit and some will not and take their chance elsewhere.
I'm very happy to hear it.Agreed, and even if it doesn't come across in my posts I am hopefully optimistic...I wouldn't be here if I wasn't
How many MLS teams have Academies? Not all of them if I remember correctly. Just a reminder that this Academy system is very new here and will struggle to keep players regardless of how a club is doing in MLS an admitted lower league than big 4 Europe.You're right, we don't know the details so its all speculative. Having said that, getting academy players to commit hasn't been a problem in the past. We have an example of Nana not wanting to make a long term committment (citing instability as his reason) and now we have three acamedy players (two of them very good players) refusing to commit as well. I'm sure a number of factors play into their decision, and I'm equally sure that at the very least seeing instability, contract disputes, the preception that players aren't being treated fairly don't help matters.
How many other MLS teams have problems getting commitments from their academy players?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Like I said in my original post, i presume all clubs try and do this sort of thing, and you're right I shouldn't let my instinctive mistrust of mlse run wild.
Hopefully the new academy will develop quickly and kids will want to stay here to develop their game rather than try for overseas, or like teibert, vancouver.
What is the point of the press release ? Why not let him go to Bayern for a tryout and be ready to welcome him back if it does not work out. I do not like the communication style and now why would Aleman return after this??
In terms if his choices, yes I can see a player "committing to the academy" if he trusted that his future was in good hands and that the club would give him every opportunity to develop including allowing him to go to trial with big clubs. There is something about the black and white nature of this that I dont like.
Last edited by wzhxvy; 05-20-2011 at 09:26 AM.
what happend to the bullshit...that the academy is the most important way to develop players,if our best players are going to leave at 16 and 17.whats the point.
i dont blame them,i would leave this shithole of a club also.
This is the pattern CretanBull is talking about, the way the organization puts itself above the good of the team.
or it could be that the kids just wanna play in europe as kids before them have and kids will want to in the future.
i really wish someone would start up a forum where MLSE conspiracies and inadequacies were at a minimum. hell id do it if i wasnt for the fact that ive got better things to do.
As of last season the MLS requires all teams to have U-18 and U-16 teams as a minimum. Some teams (NY and DC for sure, I think there are others) have a series of teams that go all the way down to U-12.
I agree, when a big European club comes calling a player like Aleman is going to leave...teams in Holland, France etc. lose players to teams like Bayern Munich so there's nothing any MLS club could do to prevent that. Like I said above, he was probably someone that we were going to lose regardless.
IMO a bigger sign of trouble is seeing Lao and Gardiner leaving because I can't imagine either ending up in a league or on a team of any note. If they end up in France, Italy etc. or at a big club in a smaller league like Standard Liege or F.C. Copenhagen then fair enough. But we should be able to protect our academy players being poached for academies of smaller teams and/or teams who aren't in the 1st division of their respective FA's. If a 16 year sees being in the academy of a 2nd division Norwegian club as a better career route than being one step away from playing for a MLS club (to start his career) then we don't have much hope.
We are not Ajax FFS. You earn respect and a reputation. You dont start acting like some holier than now organization without a track record of success. As a matter of fact, its the opposite, we have a crap track record, whether it be results, ability to attract talent, how we treat our players, out ability to deliver on commitments....this is just not the way you go about things, I am now really starting to get worried.
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