How are they scapegoated?Originally Posted by menefreghista
Did Aaron or someone else from TFC tell them to take the stand that they took?
How are they scapegoated?
Did Aaron or someone else from TFC tell them to take the stand that they took?
What about the professionalism of the players themselves?
I have this strange sense of deja vu. Like its 2007 and Canadians are being blamed for why we suck...
De Rosario and Attakora did nothing wrong. Obviously the cheque-signing was immature but the Celtic issue was blown out of proportion by errors in the FO.
I don't agree with Cann leaving the team but I also don't agree with the way he was treated.
Last edited by menefreghista; 05-17-2011 at 10:32 PM.
You have an interesting way of looking at things.
Dero did nothing wrong?
Cann did but, but.....
Whatever. Players did nothing wrong and Winter is doing things that remind you of 2007....lol
I thinks it's comical.
Haven't had a chance to listen to the interview....should be interesting.
Its pretty easy to have players vilified here when so many have a pro-management stance.
It was mentioned before in another thread, we claim we support the players, just as long as they aren't having a dispute with management. Than we become company men ourselves.
As long as a certain number of Canadian players are required to be on the roster that's pretty much the definition of entitled. Their agents will represent them differently than agents of players from other countries and management will have to handle them differently.
Yes, it's not fair, but it's the way the league has chosen to go so to everyone will have to adapt. There's a good chance that if it wasn't these specific players there would still be problems. TFC management has been complaining about "the Canadians" since the first sseason.
Why would we support players that are causing a nuisance and aren't supporting the team?
I didn't know "supporting the team" meant allowing the team to swindle you. Good to know. I wonder if all the players know this? We should inform them.
Gareth Wheeler has the most annoying voice.
Not sure where to go with this one...
Think it's a little early for anyone to be making excuses.
I dont know if this is really the case anymore, see MLS roster rules
Domestic/International:
- The two MLS clubs based in Canada – Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps FC – began with eight international slots, but their domestic slots may be filled with either Canadian or U.S. domestic players.
- MLS clubs based in Canada are required to have a minimum of three Canadian domestic players on their rosters.
- Players with the legal right to work in Canada are considered Canadian domestic players (i.e., Canadian citizen, permanent resident, part of a protected class).
http://www.mlssoccer.com/2011-mls-roster-rules
Thats 3 out of 30, I dont think that wil offer very much leverage to an agent. It used to be 13 of 26, which would have deffinatly offered leverage.
Please keep posting this stuff. I'm glad you do, and I'm sure many others are. Unfortunalty the board has been over run by people that only want to birch and complain about anything and everything.
They've been swindling us all since day one
It's a tough bind. One of TFC's big problems in the Mo era was locking players into guaranteed contracts and over paying them. In a tightly capped league this is killer. So we can keep Mo's promises and his legacy of crippling the team with large contracts can continue.
DeRo is a bit different, because he is worth the money. Today. What happens if his production drops off in a year or two? Entirely possible at his age. It's a big risk. In football the notion of signing aging players to high paying long term contracts is usually considered dumb, and moving an aging player while they still have value is a standard move.
The Canadian quota is so low now that it is essentially irrelevant.
TFC has had 5 seasons to adapt to this. Their answer to the problem (in conjunction with Vancouver) was to make the quota so low that it is meaningless.
3 out of 30 does seem "almost" irrelevant, but the coach is only complaining about 3, isn't he? Who knows, maybe if the quota was one, he'd be complaining about that one.
Any quota system is difficult to manage. CFL teams do it with a much higher quota. It will probably be a lot easier for TFC when they have a coach for more than one season who can get used to it.
The quota is a joke.
We currently have 10 Canadians on our roster by the way. And one of the players Winter mentions isn't on that list of 10 as he's been shipped out.
The three players have problems because of their circumstances not because they are Canadian.
Its sad to know the excuse making never stops with this team. Even worse is how people eat it up.
Hey, no offence intended. Sorry if my post came out wrong. It just seemed amusing!Sorry for the late notice - posted this just before 5pm at Kennedy station, I guess it didn't leave the BB until I made out of the subway at the other end (although I thought it would have gone through, at worse, on the Bloor bridge)...
Anyways, sorry it didn't go through in time guys...
Carts...
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I'll break my reply down into 2 themes.
Broken Promises
Respectfully, that's a simplistic view of a complex situation. The league itself holds the contracts. Further, in the real world, honouring alleged promises made by former leaders isn't a rubber stamp. New leaders always surround themselves with "their people" regardless of what was promised under previous leaders.
As for the "two guys", one guy has had a pay increase and some might contend that his new salary is a decent one for MLS standards.
The other guy demanded a trade and is now playing for a new team under the same contract. This is a funny one to me. DeRo apologists contended that he was a dominant offensive force who deserved DP money.
Now that he is on pace to score 2-3 goals this season, they contend that under the NYRB he is a terrific distributor of the ball and playing a selfless style and style one of the best, apparently ageless, players in the league. They suggest that his declining offense is simply a function of the style of play, not a decline in skill and that this role was envisioned for DeRo from the start.
Of course, it isn't true but it allows the Toronto-mistreatment-bad decision theory to continue. Soler commented that they paid the high price to get DeRo because he was "... one of the most dangerous players MLS has seen in the attacking third." (Soler, NYRB). 2-3 goals? That's some scary production from the attacking third.
Canadians Sense of Entitlement
Why is it so hard to think that the "Canadian" sense of entitlement is real? Is it because we are Canadian and immediately side with them?
Think about all of the comments for years about locker room discontent. About a rift between American and Canadian players. About our quota system. About Mo's comments that our first DP had to be Canadian. About the raw comments made by Chad Barrett (an American) about lack of passion from his teammates on live TV and the fact that after the New York 5-0 drubbing only Cronin and Edwards (both Americans) stood and faced the cameras and questions.
Our leadership under both Brennan and DeRosario (both Canadians) was questionable at best.
It's not that far of a reach to think that Winter is speaking the truth.
That's pretty revealing. Lumping Dero in with Cann and Nana isn't very fair to the latter two guys. They may all have been screwed, but Dero's public acts around it put him in a totally different category. Plus he's gone.
Also thanks to McCartney, for finding something pretty interesting in a not-so-highly-traveled corner of the sports media world...
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I think this is fair. But i'm not sure what you said earlier about all the other players coming to TFC as a last resort is true at all, it's hearsay.
He is right though, it's like the Canadian boys have not had to wake up to the real world and have been coddled.
Its not hearsay. Its more like my own observation on the state of our roster. You don't have to agree with it, but that's what it looks like to me.
When you look past Cann, Attakora and Frei, for the most part most of the rest of our roster is a bunch of guys that are lucky to be here.
Sure, but the exact same statements from other coaches would have been critisized here a lot (after we'd passed throuigh the stage where we think he's the greatest coach ever who will bring us championships and have become disillusioned - we seem to be right on schedule.
Speaking the truth to the media is not always the best way for a coach to get the best performances out of his players but let's hope in this case it works and the team improves its play.
He can get away with it because De Rosario is already gone, Attakora is on his way out, and Cann probably won't be around after this season.
So 2 out of the 3 you say they could have handled it better. Now they are scapegoated?
And I don't believe its the Canadians play that he is referring to you. Its the attitude. Never downed on me to make that connection until I heard it from Aaron on that clip above. And you know - he's write.
What is sad is how you eat it up.
How do you know there are not contract issues with other players? You don't because they don't let it out, nor do they have the attitude that these 3 have/had.
BTW, the quota is not a joke. How else do you propose to improve Canadian soccer?
The sarcasm and the generalizations regarding this topic never cease to amaze me. It is entirely possible and logical to support Winter's stance without being a mindless drone that supports the actions of MLSE as an ownership entity.
Every stituation should be judged objectively on an individual basis. If supporters rationalize that Winter inherited a precarious situation with DeRo and Cann, responded accordingly, and that both players were unprofessional at times during their contract disputes, there is substantial evidence to support that point of view.
I understand some of you believe Winter and Mariner should have bent over backwards to try to honor Mo Johnston's verbal commitments that preceded their tenure, and you're entitled to your opinions. If others disagree, it certainly doesn't indicate that they are MLSE sycophants.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 05-18-2011 at 08:50 AM.
This is where you lose all credibility. Are you saying DeRo is not playing a different role in NY than he was here? Have you even watched a NY game?
^ I don't care of they honoured any agreements or not, that's up to them and they'll live with the consequences. I do think they could have handled everything a lot faster and gotten on with the business of building their own team. It's on them that this stuff has dragged on so long and still comes up. (or they aren't entirely in control of the team yet)
So Winter is the latest coach to reference the entitlement that certain Canadian players have on this squad. Hasn't every coach said the same thing? The difference is Winter did it while still in charge.
If only one of former coaches said it then you could call it sour grapes, if multiple coaches say the same thing directly or indirectly there must be at least some truth to it. Where there is smoke there is fire. The only thing that surprised me with Winter's comments is that he didn't call out JDG.
My 2 cents
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