Originally Posted by Roogsy
More than 99% of the board? No. More than you? Probably.After all, what can you say about someone who was Preki's biggest backer? LMAO!
Just like I said.
More than 99% of the board? No. More than you? Probably.Just like I said.
Do you mind? adults are talkingNo need to it,once you take over the thread with few guys,thread turns to same old story,unfortunately.
TEAM glass always half empty: Roogsy, ExiledRed,Pachuco,CretanBull
VS
TEAM glass half full: REST OF THE BOARD
Since I know you guys know better that 99% of this board,there is nothing I can write that you don't know already and much better actually,that's why I just skim trough posts.
I wouldn't mind so much if people were pausing before they credited this new FO as our saviours. But that's not what people were doing.
We're not declaring them a failure. We're putting them on notice that results will be demanded sooner rather than later. If we were more diligent in our demands of excellence, we'd be wiser to demand benchmarks and gauges of measure instead of vague assurances that someday in the future we will be better.
That's good, because Ensco is rational enough to maintain an even keel and allow a reasonable timeframe before passing judgement one way or the other.
That's fine, but how do you gauge progress with a club that is rebuilding? By setting benchmarks for success and results within the first two months?
Most managers would get fired in their inaugral season if that was the standard criteria.
Ensco's opinion on Winter's appointment and performance is the same as mine, unless I've been reading his posts wrong.
He's as worried as I am that we've been stuck with a clueless wonder who is going to have to furiously reinvent his approach before he starts succeeding in this league.
Neither Ensco or I are calling for Winter's head to roll. Were calling for Winter to get his head out of his ass.
Am I wrong, E?
Anyway, enough. Let's enjoy the game.
But why is over 4 months in charge not good enough? Hodgson was shitting the bed in Liverpool, they fired him after what, 6 months and look what happened there? Did they pull the trigger too soon? Would anyone argue it was not the right move? There is no evidence that soccer is like hockey or basketball, where building from the minor leagues (academies) and years of development are needed in order to succeed. Those things affect long-term viability, not short-term results. This team needed an injection of optimisim right away. Instead we got another long-term plan.
People who say that coaches should not be fired in their first year have been disproven by countless examples in leagues all around the world. Preki's dismissal was the right thing to do. And while I am not saying the same is necessary for Winter, I do believe more accelerated demands should be made upon him as opposed to "hey, make sure we get into the playoffs in your 2nd or possibly 3rd year". Ridiculous.
^^
I agree but Liverpool hadn't gone through 6 coaches in 5 years.
Honestly, maybe it's just a difference in interpretation thing but I see it the exact opposite way as you.
Show me a post where I've annointed anyone as a saviour or called anyone a genius.
Conversely...I can show you posts where you say you prefer a coach that you hated as a coach, and hated as a man over Winter.
And then you say you haven't written him off.
It doesn't jibe with me.
supporters off football the world over are all the same, give them a winning team and they are happy, promises to get better only last so long, treat them badly and ignore them at youre peril, paying customers make or brake any buisness
Doesnt make a snot of difference.
Coaches should be judged individually, not based on the tenure of their predecessors
Adults? in that case why are still in this thread,adult reasonable person would never write something like this:
Oh,I forgot you are one of few chosen ones that know everything about soccer,sorry I will not interrupt you anymore.Originally Posted by ExiledRed
I'll say that winter improved his game and took his finger out of his arse in just the nick of time.
We dont have to wait that long though, we'll see how we fare against Vancouver. If we lose this trophy, the guy is a bust IMO.
supporters dont need to know jshit eveyone has an opinion right or wrong,14 000 sth not appearing in sept oct whould make one helluva statement regarding product on field money talks bigtime in these matters
I'm closer to Exiled's position. I am seriously worried that Winter is a mistake. I thought Klinsmann had a special insight into the guy, but based on what we see, Winter's a raw rookie who can't handle men, and has no ability to bring in talent. Hopefully there's more to see, but I won't say I'm through if we get knocked out by Vancouver, I'll give him until August.
Last edited by ensco; 05-18-2011 at 09:15 PM.
What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.
Thats good news, because i can barely understand your posts anyway
Oh,I forgot you are one of few chosen ones that know everything about soccer,sorry I will not interrupt you anymore.
Again, I agree.
But the most important thing TFC needs right now - aside from wins naturally - is some stability. It's why Vancouver kept Thordarson instead bringing in a new coach.
Not a coaching carousel.
Disagree,Barcelona did not build their team overnight,most their team is from their own academy.
BTW,next time when some of the posters complains how Mods have some inner(jerk)circle and back each other all the time,just give him the link to this thread,no such a thing on this board.
And for the record, I'm with ensco.
If TFC doesn't retain the Voyageurs Cup he has until the summer to rectify things.
Funny I've defended Cann, I defend Dero, I defend Nana when the rest of the board rips on these guys. The same could be said for Roogsy. But somehow, it's the rest of the board that's glass hall full.No need to it,once you take over the thread with few guys,thread turns to same old story,unfortunately.
TEAM glass always half empty: Roogsy, ExiledRed,Pachuco,CretanBull
VS
TEAM glass half full: REST OF THE BOARD
Since I know you guys know better that 99% of this board,there is nothing I can write that you don't know already and much better actually,that's why I just skim trough posts.
I'll just attribute your seriuosly flawed math and useless argument to the fact you skim through posts.
Oh, and I defend the hell out of Maicon around here as well which alot of people are ready to throw under the bus.
I hate JDG as much as you have a hard on for the guy. So your opinions are pretty much as unreasonable as mine.
And I don't care if I'm labelled as a JDG hater, I should probably put that on the back of my jersey. But it's annoying that really that's your only comeback you've ever had when talking about JDG. How about the rest of the population that thinks we could do without the guy? I guarantee you I'm not in the minority.
Oh, and the article specifically says teams aren't showing much interest, and your assumption is he got a 1.4 mill offer? bahahaha. what a joke.
Last edited by Pachuco; 05-18-2011 at 09:45 PM.
Actually, it's a classic case of remembering a post the way you want to remember it. I said:
This is just a case of the "devil you know", that is all I was referring to. I certainly don't want him back. Denime might, but not me.
Since I view Winter as an "experiment" by TFC, yes I do have a problem with that setup That is not writing him off, that is a commentary on the decision to put in place a coach with little experience. That's what I have a problem with. For all I know, Winter could be the greatest coach to ever coach in MLS. But by the same token, for all you know he could be one of the worst. And that is the problem. We simply don't know. So how can we have confidence? Giving that kind of faith is the very definition of "blind faith". I am not saying don't give him a chance. What I am saying is put him on a short leash. By your logic, there are only two options: Write someone off or give them all your faith. Where is the moderation in that?
But does recitfy things neccessarily mean Winter has to go? As you said, when Vancouver joined MLS they kept their coach but added to their FO.
I have a hard-on for jdg, wow. I wouldn't expect anything else from you.
I don't think that the rest of us think that we could do without JDG. They might think he is paid too much but not that we would be better off without him.
I never said he was offered 1.4 million I was simply pointing out that number could be considered nowhere near 1.8 million. First read, then comprehend what you've just read.
Why do you waste your time on here? You obviously get no joy on here, most of your posts are of the negative variety.
Last edited by habstfc; 05-18-2011 at 10:52 PM.
Well thank goodness for the result last night.
Winter has demonstrated progress as last night's 1-1 result was better than the 4-2 loss to open the season to the same team. Winter has met your expectations and given your short term focus, I guess you are able to conclude that we are "on track" and we can look forward to positive posts from you.... until the next game.
Though you wrote this for another, I absolutely love it.
I don't mean to sidebar your positivity today but I would like for you to take a shot at explaining a shot you took at me.
You know, the one where you claimed I lost all credibility because I can't seem to see that DeRo is playing a different role in NY? Apparently, it is obvious to someone with your unsurpassed knowledge of the game but to little ol me, it is far beyond my comprehension. This DeRo thing is one of your favourite management bashing angles.
You claim, perhaps conveniently, that DeRo's production is down because he is playing a different role, setting up the strikers was it?
I highlighted that DeRo, in NY, is on pace to take the same or slightly more shots vs his last 2 seasons in Toronto.
If this is a different role, why is he on pace to take the same (or more) shots? Are these special shots? Shots designed to rebound to the strikers? Is the statisician in NY simply generous and unable to see that DeRo's superhuman strength makes it impossible to decipher whether it was a pass or a shot?
Clearly, if his role is to pass and his role is so vastly different in NY, wouldn't we expect shot totals to decline?
Please, enlighten me.
Last edited by Pookie; 05-19-2011 at 07:37 AM.
Only you Pookie would actually claim that Dero is playing the same role in NY as he was with TFC. And only you would claim that his production is actually down while the NY coach continues to love him and put him on the field. And then only you would twist his supposive production being down into blaming it on his age. After all, he's now 33 and like you said a long time ago, he's going to turn into a pumpkin.
BTW - There's one pretty easy explanation for him taking the same number of shots (if that's even true since I can't believe anything you say and I haven't looked for myself). Anyway, I would venture to guess since he's no longer a striker/forward/winger his shots are more then likely outside the box and less shots where he gets behind the defense.
Last edited by Pachuco; 05-19-2011 at 09:08 AM.
*ding ding* You've got it right Pachuco. DeRo is playing much deeper in NY's system, very similar to JDG's role in Toronto.
Which has more goals?
Obviously Pookie has not watched many of NY's games. Doesn't matter anyways, he's as anti-DeRo as I am pro-DeRo so it doesn't bother me, I think most people see that.
Last edited by Roogsy; 05-19-2011 at 09:21 AM.
I'm not writing off the season until I see what he does during the transfer window. So far I liked what they have done with new foundation of the team, now I wanna see how they beef up the lineup and take us to the next level.
Dero has 1 goal.hmmm. Wasn't that on a pk on the weekend? I hardly think he's playing a similar role to that of a DM for TFC, that's Marquez"s role. The Red Bulls may not count on him as much offensively as he had here but to say he's playing the same role as JDG or Tchani is not true, you'll think of anything you can to justify your argument. It's obvious you're pro dero and that's okay, but what some people have a problem with is you saying things like he got screwed over by the club for not living up to "promises" made to him about being made a DP or getting considerably more money. He's a grown man with an agent he's got no one to blame but himself or his agent the way things turned out for him. If it's true that he turned down $600,000 that apparently he was offered here, he should have taken it because it looks like he's not going to get anything more from new york. I don't think his next contract will be anywhere near that.*ding ding* You've got it right Pachuco. DeRo is playing much deeper in NY's system, very similar to JDG's role in Toronto.
Which has more goals?
Obviously Pookie has not watched many of NY's games. Doesn't matter anyways, he's as anti-DeRo as I am pro-DeRo so it doesn't bother me, I think most people see that.
For the record I was a DERO supporter when he was here, no where near a hater of the guy.
Last edited by habstfc; 05-19-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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