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    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Good morning and thank you, D.
    "Failure simply isn't an option at this stage. TFC pushed its chips to the middle of the table when it splurged on Bradley and Defoe and reinforced its bet by making savvy acquisitions elsewhere. This collection of players is capable of delivering on the promises made during the close season. There are no more excuses available for TFC. Only success will continue the process of atoning for the past and establishing a higher standard for the future." FOX Sports

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    Quote Originally Posted by denime View Post
    Players, Officials, now the media... CARVER 2.0 in the making...

    I understand his frustration, and it must suck reading stuff in the papers that in his eyes is completely false (hell I hate reading stuff on here about a certain subject that I know are completely wrong) but Winter I think needs to take a step back from the media a little...

    He says he likes to work in a quiet environment - the best way to do that in North America is to give them nothing to write about in terms of quotes...

    Say anything and it'll be quoted, re-quoted, half quoted to sound like something else - then talked about, written about, worked over, followup questions the next day etc etc etc...

    Talk about football and football alone. The media access rules says nothing about "what you talk about". Just saying "lets stick to the match" won't get you fined - and if you hold your ground with that long enough (which is hard) eventually they will find something else to try and dig at...

    Carts...

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    Quote Originally Posted by McCartney View Post
    He says he likes to work in a quiet environment - the best way to do that in North America is to give them nothing to write about in terms of quotes...
    It's not him giving media something to write,last one was ticket sale representative wannabee players agent MS who stir the shit about Nana.

    and in Winter's interview instead of talking about team and today's game media jumped on Nana issue.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Winter is developing a reputation, no two ways about it. Check out this match preview, Winter really taking it on the chin there....

    http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?...viewtorontofcc
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by denime View Post
    It's not him giving media something to write,last one was ticket sale representative wannabee players agent MS who stir the shit about Nana.

    and in Winter's interview instead of talking about team and today's game media jumped on Nana issue.
    From a member of the sports media (me!) trust me, say nothing about a situation you don't want to hear about, and eventually (it takes patience and is not easy) will usually go away if the story is truly incorrect...

    Say anything, even the simple “Some of you are writing pieces, they’re not well-informed” (which Winter did) will just fire them up to prove him wrong. Ask prodding questions, keep it going, grab a quote or mis-quote here and there...

    In situations like this, if the story of him being frozen out is truly false, just like being at the movies, SILENCE IS GOLDEN!

    Carts...

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    Just another example of Toronto beat reporters trying to do something to justify their pay cheques. Molinaro is nothing more than the Howard Berger of the amateur ranks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McCartney View Post
    Players, Officials, now the media... CARVER 2.0 in the making...

    I understand his frustration, and it must suck reading stuff in the papers that in his eyes is completely false (hell I hate reading stuff on here about a certain subject that I know are completely wrong) but Winter I think needs to take a step back from the media a little...

    He says he likes to work in a quiet environment - the best way to do that in North America is to give them nothing to write about in terms of quotes...

    Say anything and it'll be quoted, re-quoted, half quoted to sound like something else - then talked about, written about, worked over, followup questions the next day etc etc etc...

    Talk about football and football alone. The media access rules says nothing about "what you talk about". Just saying "lets stick to the match" won't get you fined - and if you hold your ground with that long enough (which is hard) eventually they will find something else to try and dig at...

    Carts...
    Thanks for your perspective. I agree with it.

    I always get a good laugh when someone at TFC takes a run at the media.

    The media covering TFC is rather lame. We are inundated with fluff pieces. We have 2 or 3 guys that truly try to dig deep.

    Winter has it easy but is trying to play the victim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McCartney View Post
    Players, Officials, now the media... CARVER 2.0 in the making...

    I understand his frustration, and it must suck reading stuff in the papers that in his eyes is completely false (hell I hate reading stuff on here about a certain subject that I know are completely wrong) but Winter I think needs to take a step back from the media a little...

    He says he likes to work in a quiet environment - the best way to do that in North America is to give them nothing to write about in terms of quotes...

    Say anything and it'll be quoted, re-quoted, half quoted to sound like something else - then talked about, written about, worked over, followup questions the next day etc etc etc...

    Talk about football and football alone. The media access rules says nothing about "what you talk about". Just saying "lets stick to the match" won't get you fined - and if you hold your ground with that long enough (which is hard) eventually they will find something else to try and dig at...

    Carts...
    Winter definitely needs to adapt to the conditions in how the media works here. After all, this is where he works and anyone has to adapt to a new work environment.

    As for him stepping back, I'm afraid he will just end up getting blasted by the writers for not providing information. He's kind of damned if he does and damned if he does not.

    I agree with Winter that is would be great if all we talked about were the matches, player performance, etc. But just looks at what stories get traction and the most reaction; it's the rumour and off-field stuff. And that should also be a shot as us fans. We, after all, are the ones eating up those stories.

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    I'm sorry, are we really talking about TORONTO sports media and trying to convince ourselves that they're worse than EUROPE?

    For a guy who has played in the biggest fishbowls on the planet, he's bristling quite a bit at this tame treatment. And us blaming reporters for digging up stories? Even lamer. The stories are there, it's not like they are making stuff up. You don't blame the messenger. What are reporters supposed to do? Ignore the stories? Not write them? Not ask questions?

    We've often read players need PR help, I am beginning to think TFC needs to hire themselves a proper PR person to help their coach.
    Last edited by Roogsy; 05-14-2011 at 09:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    I'm sorry, are we really talking about TORONTO sports media and trying to convince ourselves that they're worse than EUROPE?

    For a guy who has played in the biggest fishbowls on the planet, he's bristling quite a bit at this tame treatment. And us blaming reporters for digging up stories? Even lamer. The stories are there, it's not like they are making stuff up. You don't blame the messenger. What are reporters supposed to do? Ignore the stories? Not write them? Not ask questions?

    We've often read players need PR help, I am beginning to think TFC needs to hire themselves a proper PR person to help their coach.
    Hang on, it's not necessarily the size of the fishbowl. The media take forever asking questions and you can see Winter rolling his eyes at times waiting for the actual question. It's the type of leading shit that surrounds the question that pisses off every coach on every team in this city. Honest to god, if this were a court they'd get shit on for leading the damn witness.

    The problem is they do make shit up, or did I not actually read that Nana was gone the past week from Dobson? Reporters are supposed to contact TFC Front Office and ask if a player has been traded actually. They should talk to the coach about COACHING STUFF.

    The media in this city cry foul when they are limited in asking their stupid longass questions but god for-f'ing-bid someone calls them out for being idiots and trying to stir the pot. They just come back with "oh they don't like us, ooooh what are they hiding, there MUST be a story..." *rubs hands* TALK ABOUT FOOTBALL or go piss off any of the other Coaches of other teams in the city...oops, already doing that too, ask Wilson, Triano, et al.

    Here's a thought, maybe, just maybe, sometimes there actually isn't a story! WOW, so talk about football then.


    Bones...
    Hello, 911? It's Quagmire. Yeah, it's caught in the window this time.

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    Simple solution.

    Winter should comment strictly on his opponents and the last game. That's it.

    Everything else is no comment.

    This is all bullshit contrived drama that we eat up.

    I like JMo but it's still just sensationalism when you write a story from one perspective, let it fester for 2-3 days and then write the other side when you get access to it.

    No wonder people run with it. It's all in the way it was delivered.

    Why not get the story from Nanas agent, then from Nana and then get the clubs story and THEN publish the story. When youre closer to having the whole story.

    Instead its delivered in a way that produces all this bullshit.

    I dont care anymore.

    Again I will quote a Sloan lyric to sum up how im starting to feel about TFC.

    "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Winter is developing a reputation, no two ways about it. Check out this match preview, Winter really taking it on the chin there....

    http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?...viewtorontofcc
    Strange preview really. The writer names a good number of Chicago players and Chicago tactics but sticks with generalities concerning TFC. His comments about "foreign coaches" and Winter's approach reveal his lack of any specific knowledge concerning our team.

    Less than useless as a preview.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    Why not get the story from Nanas agent, then from Nana and then get the clubs story and THEN publish the story. When youre closer to having the whole story.
    Well, I tried to do that. After talking to Nana and his agent, I contacted the club to try to get a comment from Paul and Aron. They said no comment.

    Sometimes the whole story comes out in dribs and drabs over a few days - like in this case when Aron, after originally declined to comment, addressed it when we got a chance to ask him directly about it.

    I don't think I did anything wrong. Nor do I think I was sensationalistic. I went to great lengths to give TFC a chance to have their say in the original story - including not running the story until I heard back from them. They chose not to comment.

    Had they commented, the focus and tone of the story would have been completely different.

    Also, I spoke to Nana's agent first, then I called Nana for confirmation. Had Nana told me what his agent said was BS, it would have ended right there - I would not have written the story at all.

    I'm not sure I would do anything differently.

    John
    Last edited by johnmolinaro; 05-14-2011 at 10:48 AM.

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    winter wants the media off his back? simple solution: stop playing harden and peterson AND START WINNING SOME FUCKING GAMES!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmolinaro View Post
    Well, I tried to do that. After talking to Nana and his agent, I contacted the club to try to get a comment from Paul and Aron. They said no comment.

    Sometimes the whole story comes out in dribs and drabs over a few days - like in this case when Aron, after originally declined to comment, addressed it when we got a chance to ask him directly about it.

    I don't think I did anything wrong. Nor do I think I was sensationalistic. I went to great lengths to give TFC a chance to have their say in the original story - including not running the story until I heard back from them. They chose not to comment.

    Had they commented, the focus and tone of the story would have been completely different.

    Also, I spoke to Nana's agent first, then I called Nana for confirmation. Had Nana told me what his agent said was BS, it would have ended right there - I would not have written the story at all.

    I'm not sure I would do anything differently.

    John
    With all due respect John. You knew you were going to get a "no comment" when looking for one outside of practices and post game scrums. You also knew that you'd have an opportunity yesterday at practice to get both sides.

    I'll go one step further and suggest that you knew a shit storm would ensue...which is exactly how the media operates. Telling the story and shaping the story are equally important.

    Like I said..I don't care anymore. All this fabricated drama is souring me on the whole TFC experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    With all due respect John. You knew you were going to get a "no comment" when looking for one outside of practices and post game scrums. You also knew that you'd have an opportunity yesterday at practice to get both sides.

    I'll go one step further and suggest that you knew a shit storm would ensue...which is exactly how the media operates. Telling the story and shaping the story are equally important.

    Like I said..I don't care anymore. All this fabricated drama is souring me on the whole TFC experience.
    Actually, I didn't know I would get no comment - that's why I contacted them in the first place. I've gotten comments from players and Mo Johnston before outside of practices and matchday scrums - so I had no reason to believe otherwise this time.

    Nor did I know a shit storm would ensue. I'm not really sure one has ensued now, to be honest.

    Just my 2 cents.

    JM

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    Chicago in Toronto, good times guaranteed.

    there's been a lot of exciting games in this fixture. here's hoping for another. de guzman v pappa and cann/williams v chaves are the big matchup's.

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    This quote from the Toronto Sun article says it all...

    What he (Winter) will quickly learn is that off-field drama has hovered over this franchise like a black cloud since Day One and has shown no sign of evaporating, even though Mo Johnston and Preki are no longer part of the landscape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmolinaro View Post
    Actually, I didn't know I would get no comment - that's why I contacted them in the first place. I've gotten comments from players and Mo Johnston before outside of practices and matchday scrums - so I had no reason to believe otherwise this time.

    Nor did I know a shit storm would ensue. I'm not really sure one has ensued now, to be honest.

    Just my 2 cents.

    JM
    Come on John. You thought you were going to get a comment on an off day, out of a coach who fought you guys with access after games? And your reason for thinking this is that you got comments like that from Mo? Seriously?

    You know that Winter is more than likely only going to talk to the media on designated days and at designated times.

    As for the shit storm...you're right, it's not a big deal. It's just given people reason to bitch, moan and speculate on in house problems at TFC when, in actuality, nobody knows if there is any drama surrounding this situation.

    Oh...sorry...DeRo does. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    Come on John. You thought you were going to get a comment on an off day, out of a coach who fought you guys with access after games? And your reason for thinking this is that you got comments like that from Mo? Seriously?

    You know that Winter is more than likely only going to talk to the media on designated days and at designated times.

    As for the shit storm...you're right, it's not a big deal. It's just given people reason to bitch, moan and speculate on in house problems at TFC when, in actuality, nobody knows if there is any drama surrounding this situation.

    Oh...sorry...DeRo does. Lol
    Hey, I have always given TFC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to that, no matter who the coach and/or GM has been. I assume they might want to comment, even on an off day. That's always been the way I've operated. Honestly.

    As I said, this whole thing is not that big of a deal and doesn't qualify as a shit storm, IMO.

    John

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    I don't understand what's in it for Winter to put Nana on the bench because of contract stuff? Does he oversee the contract stuff too?

    Sure teams wanting young players to sign long term contracts is to reap the reward of having a diamond in the rough, polishing it, then selling it for huge rewards.... a la Maurice Edu.

    If that is the case, isn't that an MLSE based instruction? Why does Aron Winter care about making money... he's a coach, his job is to make his on-field team stronger.

    This stuff makes a team weaker, so really, why bother... again from Winter's perspective?

    I don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmolinaro View Post
    Hey, I have always given TFC the benefit of the doubt when it comes to that, no matter who the coach and/or GM has been. I assume they might want to comment, even on an off day. That's always been the way I've operated. Honestly.

    As I said, this whole thing is not that big of a deal and doesn't qualify as a shit storm, IMO.

    John
    I think shit storm is only on this board,and that nothing new,right?

    You ask regular TFC follower and I'm sure they have no clue WTF is going on with Nana.

    and one more thing,can you get article like this on Monday or Tuesday so that we can have relaxed Friday,Wednesday,Thursday article makes Friday very difficult to work and look forward for the weekend.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    I'm sorry, are we really talking about TORONTO sports media and trying to convince ourselves that they're worse than EUROPE?

    For a guy who has played in the biggest fishbowls on the planet, he's bristling quite a bit at this tame treatment. And us blaming reporters for digging up stories? Even lamer. The stories are there, it's not like they are making stuff up. You don't blame the messenger. What are reporters supposed to do? Ignore the stories? Not write them? Not ask questions?

    We've often read players need PR help, I am beginning to think TFC needs to hire themselves a proper PR person to help their coach.
    You know what? It's funny, because we've seen so many coaches and managers and execs all say the same thing about the sports writers in Toronto. They're always looking at the negatives or turning the club into a soap opera. You know what? All they're doing is reporting on what they see and hear. It seems like this club has been embroiled in some minor scandal or another ever since it's inception. And it's hard to blame the people who have shed some light on many of those.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post
    You know what? It's funny, because we've seen so many coaches and managers and execs all say the same thing about the sports writers in Toronto. They're always looking at the negatives or turning the club into a soap opera. You know what? All they're doing is reporting on what they see and hear. It seems like this club has been embroiled in some minor scandal or another ever since it's inception. And it's hard to blame the people who have shed some light on many of those.
    I'm sorry but you make it sound like the media reports on everything around the club, but they don't. They'd much rather focus on stuff that's going to get us talking and arguing. And we eat it up like lemmings.

    This nana story is one of many things going on at the club. Unfortunately stuff like:

    -plata winning player of the week
    -finally having a decent rb in the squad
    -JDG starting to play the way people expect him to play
    -The captains armband being thrown around
    -is 4-3-3 working?

    But none of these things...both positive or negative get the traction of the nana story.

    Wanna know why?

    Because the Nana story can be spun to look like an extension of the DeRo drama from earlier in the year. The Nana story prolongs the drama around the club...whether it's actually there or not.

    The media absolutely, unequivocally, pick and choose what they want the public reading.

    Please dont believe that they're painting the whole picture and leaving us to make up our own minds. That's utter bullshit. I don't care how altruistic members of the media think they are. Those who don't generate chatter and dialogue remain unemployed so it's more important to ensure the hype around the story as opposed to the actual "meat" of the story.

    I know it sounds cynical but it's just the way I see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2mil4dero+santo View Post
    winter wants the media off his back? simple solution: stop playing harden and peterson AND START WINNING SOME FUCKING GAMES!!!!
    Agreed. You should add Gargan to this list. How the hell can we have any faith in Winter as a manager and tactics guru if Attakora was considered by him to be inferior in quality and ability to Gargan during those many games this season where we suffered Gargan time and time again...If Gargan is versatile and that is the reason given for his selection over Attakora, I say play Attakora as a striker and tie his boots together and make him play with a bad case of groin rash, and he would still be superior in any measure to that pylon, Gargan. Winter, in this interview proves one thing, and that is that dim witted overrated soccer coaches can be found in many fucking places.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    I'm sorry but you make it sound like the media reports on everything around the club, but they don't. They'd much rather focus on stuff that's going to get us talking and arguing. And we eat it up like lemmings.

    This nana story is one of many things going on at the club. Unfortunately stuff like:

    -plata winning player of the week
    -finally having a decent rb in the squad
    -JDG starting to play the way people expect him to play
    -The captains armband being thrown around
    -is 4-3-3 working?

    But none of these things...both positive or negative get the traction of the nana story.

    Wanna know why?

    Because the Nana story can be spun to look like an extension of the DeRo drama from earlier in the year. The Nana story prolongs the drama around the club...whether it's actually there or not.

    The media absolutely, unequivocally, pick and choose what they want the public reading.

    Please dont believe that they're painting the whole picture and leaving us to make up our own minds. That's utter bullshit. I don't care how altruistic members of the media think they are. Those who don't generate chatter and dialogue remain unemployed so it's more important to ensure the hype around the story as opposed to the actual "meat" of the story.

    I know it sounds cynical but it's just the way I see it.
    I partly agree. However, the Nana story is relevant because he is our best player and he is not playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2mil4dero+santo View Post
    winter wants the media off his back? simple solution: stop playing harden and peterson AND START WINNING SOME FUCKING GAMES!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Agreed. You should add Gargan to this list. How the hell can we have any faith in Winter as a manager and tactics guru if Attakora was considered by him to be inferior in quality and ability to Gargan during those many games this season where we suffered Gargan time and time again...If Gargan is versatile and that is the reason given for his selection over Attakora, I say play Attakora as a striker and tie his boots together and make him play with a bad case of groin rash, and he would still be superior in any measure to that pylon, Gargan. Winter, in this interview proves one thing, and that is that dim witted overrated soccer coaches can be found in many fucking places.

    Thanks god we have Capelo and Mourhino on this board to tell us how good Winter is.

    Gargan and Harden did not play last two games,Petersen plays different position,but hey who cares, you two are the chosen ones I wonder why aren't you coaching already.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    I partly agree. However, the Nana story is relevant because he is our best player and he is not playing.
    Stop it's not healthy for you.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    I partly agree. However, the Nana story is relevant because he is our best player and he is not playing.

    I'll agree with your point that the story is absolutely relevant, but not with your point Nana being our best player - just my opinion.

    It's relevant because he had a strong year last year and there were high expectations for him heading into this year and he's not playing or being picked to dress. To date he has not lived up to those expectations and it's fair to ask why. Is it Nana? Is it something off-filed that is the cause? Is it the coaching? Is it contract negotiations? All fair questions.

 

 

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