Dear MLSE, CUT Season Ticket Prices

[mw83krk]

I too have had to sell tickets to matches that I cannot attend at huge discounts (below face value). I used to have a lineup of fans responding to my posts for extra tickets, now I have to offer them up for 25% below face to even garner any interest (and these are mid-gray seats)

I think the problem lies with the way TFC (and MLSE as a whole manage their business). The people who make the actual decisions are ones who have no clue about sports, rather they are individuals with strong business backgrounds who's knowledge base is balance sheets, income statements and cash flows, rather than winning sports teams. Decisions are always run through them based on what the ROI will be and what will lead to increase revenues, not increase on-pitch performance. Unfortunately, this doesn't always work in the sports and entertainment industry, as it's a totally different beast the regular business. MLSE is slowly showing that they aren't the geniuses that everyone else thought they were. Other than the Leafs, the Marlies have been a complete failure, the Raptors live of the requirements of Leafs season tickets holders, and TFC is a prime example of how MLSE mismanaged something that was a sure-fire bet.

With the majority of games being on GOLTV, must of the people I know who would go to a couple of games per year, don't have this channel and no longer casually follow the team .... they are no longer intersted. Why aren't these games more readily available?

[Pookie]

It's not about income, it's about your willingness to pay or the demand for tickets. If the team is consistently shitty, your willingness to pay drops, and the price that you're willing to buy tickets at drops.

Supply and Demand.

At some point it is absolutely about disposable income. There is a price ceiling for all of us.

As price rises, demand drops regardless if the product.

Remember too that we are talking about season tickets, not one off games. I might be willing to pay $1000 for a ticket to the Leafs in a Cup final. But if I had to buy $1,000 tickets for all 12 home games in the playoffs, that is a different story

[Azerban]

With the majority of games being on GOLTV, must of the people I know who would go to a couple of games per year, don't have this channel and no longer casually follow the team .... they are no longer intersted. Why aren't these games more readily available?

if you watched tfc for the first time last night, would you still be interested?

[mclaren]

I feel for you guys. I dropped my season tickets this year and what a great decision. I can go to games very easily and cheaply (by buying tickets below face value) and watch other games online. More importantly I, and others like me, sent a strong message to MLSE.

[ensco]

I have very good reds, and I can tell you that the market for every game (except LA) was at between 20-50% of my cost, which itself is about 20-30% less than "face".

It's a bloodbath if you need to sell better seats.

Don't forget, higher price seats make up a lot of the SSH base.

[TorCanSoc]

I've been at 2 season tickets, up as high as 4 season tickets.. this year I dropped 3 I've kept only 1. Even though it pains me to do it..... I'm going to drop my season ticket next year.

MLSE got accolades for being a model franchise in the first three years of operations. Do they give awards for shooting the golden goose? The goose is dead..... its now just a matter of finding out who's holding the gun.

[Pachuco]

I can't go to Wednesday's game. I'm predicting I won't get $5 bucks for that game. And I have dark Greys.

Anyway, I agree with OldTimer. The fact I can't resell my tickets for even half of face value at times is the major reason I will not renew this year unless the prices drop atleast 25% for my section. The demand for TFC tickets right now is as bad as it's ever been and it has a huge impact on the atmosphere and my ability to recoup a little bit of money to games I can't attend.

[ensco]

I can't go to Wednesday's game. I'm predicting I won't get $5 bucks for that game. And I have dark .

This game.....is a prime example of everything that's wrong.

NASL expansion team.
Full price.
Forced on SSH.
8pm in early May.
Gametime forecast 9 degrees with 40% chance of rain.

I'm sick of it. I'm not buying tickets to the May 25 game, or CCL games if they make.

[menefreghista]

This game.....is a prime example of everything that's wrong.

NASL expansion team.
Full price.
Forced on SSH.
8pm in early May.
Gametime forecast 9 degrees with 40% chance of rain.

I'm sick of it. I'm not buying tickets to the May 25 game, or CCL games if they make.

You can add one more to your list for the May 4th game: essentially a friendly now that we are up 3-0 after the first leg.

By the way, you already have a ticket to the May 25 game if you are a season ticket holder.

[gomesv]

I feel for you guys. I dropped my season tickets this year and what a great decision. I can go to games very easily and cheaply (by buying tickets below face value) and watch other games online. More importantly I, and others like me, sent a strong message to MLSE.

This is exactly why I'll be dropping my Season tickets next year.... I won't lie, I'll still go to a majority of games, but by next year it will cost me half the money....

[ensco]

You can add one more to your list for the May 4th game: essentially a friendly now that we are up 3-0 after the first leg.

By the way, you already have a ticket to the May 25 game if you are a season ticket holder.

Oh right. I got on a roll there, got all worked up.

Well, I don't like being forced to take that game too!

[menefreghista]

Oh right. I got on a roll there, got all worked up.

Well, I don't like being forced to take that game too!

I wonder how relieved MLSE are now that there won't be any refunds for those tickets.

[boban]

except he's explained that he needs to sell 30% of his tickets in order to continue to attend. If his price drops to 70% of what it is now, we're good... but if not.... he will drop ALL of them and MLSE will have to sell 100% of that seat.

The issue isn't that he needs to sell part of his SSH pack, it's that there is no demand for this crappy product, and that applies equally to MLSE selling 17 games a year, or OldTimer selling 5.

If a moderator on the RPB site (with full access to ticket trader) can't find someone to take tickets at face value, then imagine how hard it is for the rest of the fans who need to unload some tickets.

For the record, I have 2 pairs of seats. One set is in 112 and I keep those. One set is in the red. I sell those two tickets to a pal for the entire season at below face value. If I didn't have a guy buying the entire season, and had to sell them at 2for1, I'd be dropping them in a heart beat.

But they don't give a fuck about your demand. MLSE only cares about its demand. So to argue about rolling pricing back because of tickets holders lack of ticket demand is totally absurd.

[ilikemusic]

The team is so bad, and has such a bad name around the city, that I dont think slashing ticket prices would really do any good.

Spending $10 to be bored out of my skull while teams pound the shit out of TFC is not that much more appealing than spending $40 to see them do it.

[Pookie]

^ again, we are talking about ticket prices for season ticket holders. Single game ticket prices don't really matter and could be handled using "dynamic ticket pricing" to maximize the club's revenue.

A season ticket holder buys tickets, generally speaking, because they want to go to all the games guaranteed and save money off of the idea of buying them in bulk. At this point, the per game buyer is secondary to solidifying my business.

This is what I would do:

Taken to an extreme, offer the STH a per game price that is deeply discounted. Reds at $40/game as an example. Offer other "value" items like I've mentioned earlier (ie. discount off tickets for friends, parking, concessions, playoff games, etc).

They will sell out their STH base.

This creates scarcity and fuels a demand for season tickets. Of course, the season tickets are capped therefore the wait list grows. They can now leverage other brands like they did with the Marlies (and could do with the Raptors) or charge more in packages like a flex pack.

Next comes the single game seat and here is where dynamic ticket pricing comes into effect.

The price of the ticket for a single game varies depending on demand. Using that example, pricing for the red ticket might start out at $90. For a game like Edmonton on Wednesday, maybe that price drops to $60, never dropping below the STH price.

For a game like LA with Beckham, that $90 seat climbs to $150. Maximizing TFC's revenue for games that count... including home openers, playoff push games (wouldn't that be nice), latest signing games like Henry in New York, etc.

Yes, this would make the single game buyer pay more but in doing so, I've created value for my season ticket base. Further, my net revenue might paint a better picture than the one I have now. 7,000 tickets dynamically priced each and every game with the potential to leverage other brands. But none of this is possible unless there is a large and loyal STH base.

[DangerRed]

I agree with OT, and I also agree with the notion that ticket prices shouldn't be tied to success on the pitch. I hope MLSE is sensible enough to eventually scale pricing back to 2007 levels and keep them at that level for the foreseeable future.

I think you, OldTimer and everyone else calling for a price cut will find that MLSE will respond in the same manner you have responded to my pessimism about this team's prospects: be patient! Hahahahaha.

Anyway, yeah, my friends and I are dropping three unless there's a price cut, which there will not be (they'll tell you that they've frozen prices), so I'm virtually guaranteed not to renew next year.

[ensco]

But they don't give a fuck about your demand. MLSE only cares about its demand. So to argue about rolling pricing back because of tickets holders lack of ticket demand is totally absurd.

It's all interrelated. It's not that this affects the revenue per SSH to MLSE, but SSHs taking losses, on games they can't go to, is effectively the same thing as a price increase, to the SSHs.

[RedsYNWA]

I have only kept 2 seats in the south end, not for next year, even if they do make the playoffs etc. My friend who dropped his pair got a pair of free tix to two games and paid 20$ each to the other 2 only missing out on the DCU game...I like that math for next year. If everyone did not renew we would be getting our tix at 50% off the current prices

[DangerRed]

I have only kept 2 seats in the south end, not for next year, even if they do make the playoffs etc. My friend who dropped his pair got a pair of free tix to two games and paid 20$ each to the other 2 only missing out on the DCU game...I like that math for next year. If everyone did not renew we would be getting our tix at 50% off the current prices

Oh yeah - next year, when the stadium is half to three-quarters full, you'll be able to get those "family game day" packages just like elsewhere in the MLS.

This really hasn't been a killing of the golden goose. It's been its brutal dismemberment and slow torture, five years in the making.

[ryan]

I don't want the poor play of the club to be used as a reason to lower ticket prices, cause if/when they become a strong team it only gives justification for MLSE to put the prices through the stratosphere.

[Oblio2]

In the first few seasons...I had people clamouring to get tickets....If there were any going spare, I almost had peple rip my hands off to get them. I bought an extra pair in 127 and sold them at face value to friends, so they could go....
This season I cant GIVE tickets away. My 127's are basically unold and nobody wants to go. It shows that fan support is dropping and MLSE needs to consider this. This isn't the show it once was and when the "noisy fun supporters" leave.....you are in trouble and left with a boring, crappy game day. Coupled with an awful team...this is going to turn out very, very bad for MLSE and if they dont sort it out soon...the "Crown Jewel" of MLS will, in my opinion be gone from Toronto within 5 years

[flatpicker]

^ I completely agree.
These are precarious times for TFC.

[jabbronies]

Shit team or not - I'm happy I kept my season seats this year. The guys in my section are a blast! it's a good few hours of drinking with the boys and girls - However - Shit team or not - I won't be as willing to pay more for these tickets in the future.

At the end of the day, this league is mickey mouse and if the cost goes any higher, isn't worth the value that I'm paying for them. This isn't the top league in the world - I shouldn't be paying more on a per game basis than let's say - Major League baseball - which is the top league in the world!

Know your place in the market MLSE, it's not at the top, especially when you've been sitting in the basement of a bottom feeder league your whole existance.

[ExiledRed]

JDG should put a million toward the loss

[Roogsy]

I was "appeased" with the price freeze contingent on the team's direction and the promise of "getting it right". Since it appears their vision of "getting it right" is to make fans wait more, I would say it would be nothing short of expected for them to at LEAST extend the price freeze. THAT would be a real demonstration of their regret for "getting it wrong" initially. But I won't hold my breath. I think they pay lipservice to the loyalty fans have shown.

[boban]

I was "appeased" with the price freeze contingent on the team's direction and the promise of "getting it right". Since it appears their vision of "getting it right" is to make fans wait more, I would say it would be nothing short of expected for them to at LEAST extend the price freeze. THAT would be a real demonstration of their regret for "getting it wrong" initially. But I won't hold my breath. I think they pay lipservice to the loyalty fans have shown.

Another freeze?
How come they could cut prices for Raptors tickets (more than once)?
Surely TFC fans deserve a price cut.

[DangerRed]

Another freeze?
How come they could cut prices for Raptors tickets (more than once)?
Surely TFC fans deserve a price cut.

That magical "Mo Edu money" that everyone talks about ran out some time ago. Someone has to pay for the $20 mil academy facility, or for that roof that Paul Beirne tweeted about yesterday. That someone, MLSE thinks, should be you.

Don't expect a cut.

[Oldtimer]

The quality of the product on the field is only relevant because that's why it's hard for me to sell tickets, and that's why the atmosphere has declined.

Anyways, it's all about dollars and cents to me. I can get deep discount tickets, so unless my SSH cost declines to reflect that, I won't be renewing.

Also, I agree that MLSE doesn't give a crap that I can't resell my spare tickets, except that it raises my net cost to the point that I won't renew at current prices. That they care about. There's nobody to take up my season tickets if I don't renew.

BTW, a roof won't make me renew at current prices.

[TFC Cityboy]

2 factual points to make here.

Point 1
I was in England recently and paid 70 pounds (around $110) for 2 adult & 2 kid tickets at Eastlands for Manchester City v Fulham. BMO equivalent seats would be section 106,$41x4 = $164 with no kid rate and I paid the equivalent of $6 for a pint at City.
This is for arguably the best league in the world. Contrast that to the "entertainment" value of the MLS. Oh and did I mention we were under a roof?.

Point 2
Tom Anselme was on the Soccer Show with Nigel and Bobby on Setanta on Thursday. Nigel talked about the previous night's match at Edmonton. Anselme said he missed it because he was watching the hockey.

2 factual points. No commentary from me necessary

[Roogsy]

Another freeze?
How come they could cut prices for Raptors tickets (more than once)?
Surely TFC fans deserve a price cut.

I absolutely agree! But if I think an extended price freeze is unlikely I think you will see hell freeze over before this organization cuts prices...even though they should.