Simon Kuper (Soccernomics) on Aron Winter

[ag futbol]

Like I've said before, RSL is our model on how to get out of the mess left by MoJo.

Let's not make out every candidate with no previous head-coaching experience to be Jason Kreis.

[ensco]

I accept that Winter has experience in developing players. If he has a particularly good track record, eg players who credit him for getting them into the big time, I'm unaware of it. Doesn't mean that evidence of excellence doesn't exist. We do know he was let go by Ajax. That doesn't mean much either, these big teams are all political cesspools, few can last for that long.

I do believe Klinsmann may have been able to figure some of this out. Hopefully he did. I have no faith that the Anselmi or Beirne would be able to do due diligence on him.

But I worry that this particular skill of Winter's, player development, doesn't translate well here - totally different culture.

Away from that, nobody here has any clue at all, really, as to whether Winter will be a success as a manager, because that's really about player acquisition. Totally different from development. Not saying development isn't important too.

It's anybody's guess.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Away from that, nobody here has any clue at all, really, as to whether Winter will be a success. It's anybody's guess.

yep pretty much., can only go on what we see now, even then people are going to differ

[Gazza_55]

Let's not make out every candidate with no previous head-coaching experience to be Jason Kreis.

Or to be Chris Cummins. It goes both ways.

[ilikemusic]

http://blogs.thescore.com/footyblog/...cast-apr-26th/

starts ~35:30

-wishes him well
-thought Winter was good player but doesn't strike him as deep thinker about soccer
-no evidence he's the sort of person who's brilliantly equipped to do that kind of job
-TFC might have fallen into the fallacy that a very good player makes a good manager, but no evidence to support

for reference, he's a brit but raised in Holland and knows Ajax.

TFC have just fallen into the same fallacy they always have; that anybody with a thick accent is qualified to run a football team.

[jloome]

TFC have just fallen into the same fallacy they always have; that anybody with a thick accent is qualified to run a football team.

Gee, analytical.

[TOBOR !]

TFC have just fallen into the same fallacy they always have; that anybody with a thick accent is qualified to run a football team.

We've been discussing whether Kuper's comments are valid based either on his 'expertise' or Winter's 'resume'. Join in.

[jabbronies]

Well I'm going to judge Winter, by:

- The style of play the team is displaying.
- Seeing the players that are being shipped out and the ones being brought in.
- Seeing the players that are benched more often than not, and when they are brought in, what situations they are in.
- hearing his post game interviews and what he likes/doesn't like.
- results against other MLS teams.

I really don't care about what any oversea's writers/pundits with an accent have to say just yet.

[johntv]

It is Kuiper for staters.I know Simon and his knowledge of soccer but not including coaching is second to none and ranks him right up there.I must admit that when I met him he was very interested in Jonathan Deguzman.Simon says I guess,he just relies on statistics and they say Winter does not have those credentials that would rank him among these other famous Dutch giants.Nor was Cruiff,who in fact has a lot less than Aron in coaching experience and let us not forget Bob DeClerc a top soccer coach at Ajax,,who often is discussed along the lines of Frank Deboer the Ajax coach.Bob and Frank are soccer training and coaching giants.With Aron and his amazing wealth of playing as well as having been exposed to that system of not only playing but training including the technical site,we are very fortunate.

[Blixa]

If Winter had a brilliant soccer mind he wouldn't be coaching TFC.

[Batman]

If Winter had a brilliant soccer mind he wouldn't be coaching TFC.

I completely disagree.

Brilliant or not, everyone has to have their first head coaching gig somewhere.

I'm happy his first gig his here.

Time will tell whether he's brilliant or not, but the fact he's here, certainly doesn't mean he's not.

[Heathen]

It is Kuiper for staters.I know Simon and his knowledge of soccer but not including coaching is second to none and ranks him right up there.I must admit that when I met him he was very interested in Jonathan Deguzman.Simon says I guess,he just relies on statistics and they say Winter does not have those credentials that would rank him among these other famous Dutch giants.Nor was Cruiff,who in fact has a lot less than Aron in coaching experience and let us not forget Bob DeClerc a top soccer coach at Ajax,,who often is discussed along the lines of Frank Deboer the Ajax coach.Bob and Frank are soccer training and coaching giants.With Aron and his amazing wealth of playing as well as having been exposed to that system of not only playing but training including the technical site,we are very fortunate.

yeah very fucking fortunate

[AL-MO]

When RSL hired Kreis as coach, Garber nearly chocked on his coffee.

He had no record whatsoever, except as a player.

Kuper's footy expertise is statistics. Apart from that, he is no more knowledgeable than the average person on this board.

Wasn't his co-writer the stats guy?

[Parkdale]

Brilliant or not, everyone has to have their first head coaching gig somewhere.

and for a first time head coach, being in the 'soccer wilderness' might be a good thing. Sure we put him under the microscope, but it's a safe haven from the big leagues of Europe.

Plus if he leaves after a few years with a bad record, I think that everyone else will understand that "oh, that's just Toronto". He walked into a tough spot, and either he succeeds or he doesn't. It's not like he's taking a contender and getting them relegated.

[ilikemusic]

Total Football?

I would settle for a quarter football, or even sixteenth football at this point.