Saborio is a DP. But yes, it seems like RSL has done some great scouting to bring in players who can play and can play together, who are relatively unknown.Originally Posted by Yozzarian
Saborio is a DP. But yes, it seems like RSL has done some great scouting to bring in players who can play and can play together, who are relatively unknown.
Saborio is a DP due to transfer fee paid to his previous club. He will not be a DP next season
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
It isn't looking. Never was. That's why your thesis doesn't account for years 1 and 2. How do you explain that? We were never in the mix on any big names - and this continues.
Years 1 and 2 TFC had an undermanned and inexperienced FO that got outplayed by other teams. Did they even have any scouts? Did they have anyone other than Mo and his agent? That's been addressed over the years to the point we are now - so far we haven't seen big results, the new management didn't exactly show up with any dramatic moves to stamp their identity on the team and have instead chosen slow change.
It may or may not work, but things are definitelty different than years 1 and 2.
I have a lot of time for your posts, but you and I are going to disagree on this one.
I give the FO "credit" for the best 5 of those guys (but loans, and guys acquired in forced trades are not really on point). The other 6 players you cite, none of them are even close to being impact players, imho, and I say this as someone who likes Gordon.
Bringing people in is not the same thing as competing at the highest level for talent. We're not even in the game on that score.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
How much scouting for a high profile dp do you need - really?
Mo has contacts for these types of players - one doesn't need a scouting network for that!
Fuck I got some contacts that could get in contact with such players - and it would take 2 phone calls the most.
Moderator
In year 1 and 2, the consensus was that a DP wouldn't have enough of an impact on the roster to warrant the cost (due to the nature of being an expansion team and having to build the roster from the ground-up). If you look back far enough you'll note that only a handful of people were pushing for TFC to take advantage of the rule as soon as it was introduced (incidentally, I was one of them), but I'd say the vast majority of fans and supporters didn't think that it was the right time to bring one in, so with no pressure to make any large DP signing, the club waited. The explanation is simple - because so many people thought it wouldn't have helped much given that we were a new team, the club just left things as they were.
Now, however, when the club is on the look-out for that "big-name striker" it's entirely possible that one of the big reasons we're not able to sign any isn't because they aren't getting better offers elsewhere or visa issues are popping up or anything like that, but rather because players don't live in bubbles and they know exactly what goes in the dressing rooms in clubs all over the league.
I don't say any of this to be negative or just to shit on MLSE, but surely it's a plausible theory, yes? You're right in that we weren't looking for a DP for the first two seasons, but I think we are looking now, but DP-level players are simply not touching us.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 04-22-2011 at 12:53 PM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
I agree that no more than 5 of those players have proven to be anything more than starting MLS calibre players at this point.
Nonetheless, my point is that the effort is being made to rebuild a roster that was in shambles when Winter and Mariner inherited the club. It will take time to evaluate the merits of all the acquisitions, as it's only been a few games, and some of them have yet to even step on the pitch. It's premature to suggest that the current roster will be competitive or yet another failure, but I'm sure the intent is to build a club that can contend for the post season and the CCL.
As for competing at the highest level for players that would warrant DP status, I would be the first person to acknowledge that the organization has failed in their first 2 attempts (JDG and Mista). At the very least though, it demonstrates that MLSE is willing to invest in impact players, and hopefully the new regime will prove to be more adept at identifying DP calibre players in the future.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 04-22-2011 at 12:54 PM.
Packed stadium or not, we could have used one. And Mo was always talking out of his ass that were going to get one.
And your point about a plausible theory that players are not treated good and therefore don't desire to come here could be true I suppose, but I live by the theory espoused by Rod Tidwell :
"Show me the Money"
Oh, I thought now we were trying to copy RSL.
It was very telling when Mo said at first that he was going to try and sign a DP and then he said that he didn't need to because all the tickets were sold. Why would a GM trying to build a team care so much about ticket sales so early in the life of a team? That seems like the point at which the promises made by MLSE to TFC (sure, you'll be able to sign a DP, come on, move to Canada and run an expansion team, bring your family) started to change. They ran that scam for four years until it finally couldn''t go on any longer and they had their town halls and their, "We screwed," apologies and now they went out and hired a consultant and they're trying something else.
VooDoo's comment about supporting the team in the beginning when they obviously weren't developing an infrastructure the way other teams were is right on.
He is a DP but that is because they paid a transfer fee for him. Morales is the highest paid player on the team at $250k - meaning their DP is paid less than that.
Moderator
I agree. I see no good reason why we shouldn't have had one since Day 1. But I think that guys like you and I were in the minority back than. Fuck, we still have people thinking a DP won't be of any use and write the notion off entirely as crazy-talk.
As for your second point, if you asked me a couple weeks if I thought MLSE was re-investing enough money into the club I would have laughed my ass off for a good half-hour or so. But now that they are fronting around $20 million of their own cash for the training facility and academy grounds, I don't buy into the "they're cheap-ass bastards" argument as much as I used to. If they are willing to spend that sort of cash on a facility that doesn't generate much "noise" from the majority of soccer fans in the city (and let's be honest, while many here understand the significance of having a well-equipped and supported academy system, most TFC fans really don't know or care much about it), it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't try to acquire a player for a quarter or so of that amount for a few years.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
^ There's a big difference between the training facility and a DP contract. Look, I'm happy they're building the facility and putting up "20 million" but that's ammortized over a long time, there will be tax benefits, partners, all kinds of things - it's not like paying a player two or three million dollars who may not work out.
As long as there's a big enough base of people willing to wait till next year or the year after for success on the field that's when it will come, "next year."
Moderator
^ That's a fair point, true enough. One could also argue that all that would be money thrown down the drain if attendance at BMO Field creates an unprofitable situation for MLSE. The fortunes of the senior team will dictate the fortunes of the academy, so it only makes sense that you spend "insurance" money on maintaining the team so the money already spent on other aspects of the club aren't wasted.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
And profits from player sales - including those that aren't good enough for TFC. Academy's can be very profitable ventures when properly run. This is MLSE. Everything they are doing is for an expected profit.
You want a DP striker? Sign this guy. He'd come to Toronto, will be out of contract soon and despite his previous statements that he wants to finish his career in France, there's been rumours he'd entertain an MLS offer.
Good luck with that.You want a DP striker? Sign this guy. He'd come to Toronto, will be out of contract soon and despite his previous statements that he wants to finish his career in France, there's been rumours he'd entertain an MLS offer.
I couldn't disagree more. Now, in our fifth year, we finally have a PLAN. With that, it will take time to build. I for one, like the direction we are heading. Will we have growing pains? Of course. In the meantime, I will do my job week in and week out. And that job is to SUPPORT the team. That's what we are....SUPPORTERS! GO YOU REDS!
I see Drogba going straight into politics before any move to MLS unless he's made a previous statement I'm unaware of...
Drogba would be worth it, mlse should offer him 5 million a year!
It looked a pretty good crowd on Saturday. People are still going to go; if it's a nice day I'll make the trek down to BMO, and many will join me.
We're not going to set records, but we're not going to embarrass ourselves either.
He destroys the league in FIFA11.
Sure. No argument there.
But the person who decides to go only in the days leading up to the game is now paying less, in many cases far less, than the SSH base. Have a look at Ticket Trader here.
If you're still not convinced, have a look at ebay, where good pairs, face value $82, SSH cost $60, went for $15-20 (all prices for two tickets) on ebay.
The issue isn't interest level, it's sustainability of this business model. Looks like a big problem is coming, to me.
Last edited by ensco; 04-24-2011 at 01:32 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
point. counterpoint. summary.
We don't need any DP, we need the right DP for this team.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
There is no doubt that ticket demand and interest has tapered way off. But..
Columbus is averaging only 10,850 fans a game at Crew Stadium. Its 15-year low was 12,275 fans a game in 1998, its last season at Ohio Stadium.
New England is averaging only 9,853 fans a game. Average attendance at Gillette Stadium has fallen in each of the last four years to a low of 10,041 in 2010.
I'm not intending to compare us to these, but it seems that many expansion teams peak early and then interest drops off. Maybe this is the new TFC normal?
"Failure simply isn't an option at this stage. TFC pushed its chips to the middle of the table when it splurged on Bradley and Defoe and reinforced its bet by making savvy acquisitions elsewhere. This collection of players is capable of delivering on the promises made during the close season. There are no more excuses available for TFC. Only success will continue the process of atoning for the past and establishing a higher standard for the future." FOX Sports
^ The argument about NE has always been cheap, uninterested ownership. It may not be that expansion teams peak early, it may be that fans get upset paying for tickets and then not seeing the team reinvest.
Has there been a lot of drop off in ticket sales in other cities where the owners have spent on the teams?
He'd come to Toronto.
Really? You base this on what?
Drogba seems disinterested whilst playing with Chelsea. What makes you think he'd want to come here?
Were you not paying attention??
Shevchenko might be good on the business end, but at this point I have my doubts he has much left in the tank.
For whatever reason, MLS seems to be a league that makes good Forwards look rather ordinary whilst guys like Jeff Cunningham and Kenny Cooper can score 20+.
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