Scalpers are a real Problem - Video

[chip_butty]

It's even worse now that somehow it's become legal for Ticketmaster to own StubHub.

StubHub is owned by eBay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StubHub

[Stencils]

We could always practice 'simulation' when we pass or get passed by these guys.

"I said I wasn't selling or buying to no scalper and he tripped me!"

:P

Or how about a non-violent 'sit in' at BMO to get the FO do try and do something? No one leave the stands after the Pachuca game. At the very least something like that might generate a bit of press....

[Mikey]

They look pretty dumb, but how dumb?

Surely they realise that if they lay hands on a RPB / TFC supporter it'll be open seaon on scalpers around BMO?

Anyhoo, I'm sure the undercover cops reading the RPB board will be all over this next game......

[Jack]

The only way this will ever be solved is if the FO figures out which seats are being peddled by scalpers and then moves to strip them of their seat rights. I doubt they will ever get that proactive unless they start taking a commission from the ticket exchange though.

PS- nice work on the video.. how did that altercation start, anyway?

The scumbags started with their in-your-face BS about trying to sell/buy tickets.

The "person in the video" said "fuck off scalper" and then they gathered like the vultures they are and started with their comments.

[Jack]

StubHub is owned by eBay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StubHub

Sorry, TicketsNow. Same type of shit.

Basically, they can now scalp their own tickets online.

[chip_butty]

Sorry, TicketsNow. Same type of shit.

Basically, they can now scalp their own tickets online.

Yeah. Stubhub gave them quite the fright. There is no way to keep this off the net. Unless you start making draconian laws and going after the consumer in markets (like Ontario, some states and provinces) where this is theoretically illegal. Non-season tickets are going to be all electronic and anything digital will be traded on the web.

The problem: supporters section tickets are on the open market.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

As I said a couple of weeks ago it is only a matter of time before there is a serious altercation between scalpers and patrons of TFC/BMO field.

Jack, I'm guessing that you and the leadership of the other TFC supporters groups have brought this up with the club. If MLSE and the police continue to turn a blind eye to this it's not a matter of if but when people are going to get hurt…

[Steve]

The scalpers are violating several Ontario laws (Ticket Speculation Act, Safe Streets Act and maybe also Trespass to Property Act), and, in addition, the police have proven themselves very adept at ticketing/arresting people for specious reasons. The question is, why don't the police seem interested in busting scalpers for openly illegal behaviour? Let's not forget, this is the same police force whose downtown plainclothes drug squad had to be completely disbanded a couple of years ago because its officers (including the head of the police union and 2 of the police chief's kids) were running an extortion/drug racket in the Club District. When I see the Toronto police turning a blind eye to organized criminal activity, what am I supposed to think?

(Preamble: I am not a lawyer or involved in law in any way, but I do like to read up on laws and make sure I am informed)

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to get a charge under the "Safe Streets Act" to stick if your evidence is that video. I'm not saying I like scalpers, but my only interaction with them at BMO has been "You need tickets?" "No" "Ok". Hardly a violation of the act. The video shows a supporter initiating the altercation, again, I don't see that as aggressive solicitation. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and if it does, feel free to approach a police officer with a complaint, but you might want to ensure you weren't the one that started the altercation.

Trespass to property act would be even more sketchy. They're standing around exhibition place, public owned. Is it even possible to charge them with trespassing on public property?

Ticket Speculation Act I agree, they're violating. That being said, is it the job of the cops to try to police that? They are there to keep the peace, so will write citations for obvious infringements (alcohol), but charging someone under the Ticket Speculation Act is undoubtable more of a challenge. I'm sure they don't have the power to write a citation right there (as I believe the maximum fine is $5000, and must be proven in court) so would have to arrest them. Does anyone know the rules for arrest without warrent involving the Ticket Speculation Act? They would also need to actively search for scalpers (selling tickets is not illegal, selling them over face value is, so they would need to prove how much was paid, how much it was worth, etc, not an easy task).

Essentially, it would involve a lot more effort and resources than they currently have at BMO, and it would need a major complaint (from TFC itself) for them to even start caring.

[Canadian Blue]

we have had lots of cases of people being intimidated and confronted by scalpers before the game. I just hope it never comes to an assault.

To my recollection the only causes I have heard of where fans were intimidated/confronted by scalpers was when the fan insticated the issue.

You video being one and the other was the thread from a few weeks ago where the guy said he mouthed off to the scalper first.

I don't agree with the scalpers but I have walked past them for 2 years now with no issue, I think you guys getting in their face is creating an issue or unsafe environment that doesn't need to be created.

[Pigfynn]

To my recollection the only causes I have heard of where fans were intimidated/confronted by scalpers was when the fan insticated the issue.

You video being one and the other was the thread from a few weeks ago where the guy said he mouthed off to the scalper first.

I don't agree with the scalpers but I have walked past them for 2 years now with no issue, I think you guys getting in their face is creating an issue or unsafe environment that doesn't need to be created.

So, don't bother the illegal people on your way to the stadium is your suggestion? Why should I not only have to sit in 114 surrounded by new people every week because of scalped tickets (instead of real supporters)but also "be nice" to the people who keep those tickets out of the hands of honest people waiting to get in?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Scalpers=Scum. Any sport. Any event.

[Oblio2]

here's the thing.
if one or two of these guys does get aggressive and start a scrap, you have hundreds of football fans walking by who, by my reckoning would happily lay the boot in to these guys.
Doesn't matter who they are or how connected, when you have 50 football fans laying the boots to you, see what happens. I would suggest the scalpers be very careful who they provoke/intimidate because it could get very ugly and very fast.

*disclaimer
I am in NO WAY condoning violence towards scalpers.

[Lenny Dikestra]

We could always practice 'simulation' when we pass or get passed by these guys.

"I said I wasn't selling or buying to no scalper and he tripped me!"

:P

Or how about a non-violent 'sit in' at BMO to get the FO do try and do something? No one leave the stands after the Pachuca game. At the very least something like that might generate a bit of press....

HAhahahahh ,, Ya cause we all know how well these protests work.. You can't get supporters to agree on disagreeing long enough to organize anything..

I am 100% sure Scalpers don;t instigate trouble.. the fixated scalper haters do

[Red CB Toronto]

That was classic

[Canadian Blue]

So, don't bother the illegal people on your way to the stadium is your suggestion? Why should I not only have to sit in 114 surrounded by new people every week because of scalped tickets (instead of real supporters)but also "be nice" to the people who keep those tickets out of the hands of honest people waiting to get in?

Yes, have you ever chased after the guy that rolled through a stop sign.....heaven forbid he did something illegal!!!!

Maybe we should start a Guardian Angels RPB Chapter.....the red beret would look great with a TFC kit

[Hooligan69]

here's the thing.
if one or two of these guys does get aggressive and start a scrap, you have hundreds of football fans walking by who, by my reckoning would happily lay the boot in to these guys.
Doesn't matter who they are or how connected, when you have 50 football fans laying the boots to you, see what happens. I would suggest the scalpers be very careful who they provoke/intimidate because it could get very ugly and very fast.

*disclaimer
I am in NO WAY condoning violence towards scalpers.

What happens if a scalper pulls out a gun or a knife?

[H Bomb]

^^ Well then lets all stay home in case everyone's armed. The apathy here is sad. If you don't stand up for what you believe in no one else will do it for you. These guys represent a societal cancer that needs to be snuffed out. Why anyone would even want to ignore these guys instead of call them out is beyond me. We need to make there lives a living hell for the minute of two we see them each week.

[Steve]

^^ Well them lets all stay home in case everyone's armed. The apathy here is sad. If you don't stand up for what you believe in no one else will do it for you. These guys represent a societal cancer that needs to be snuffed out. Why anyone would even want to ignore these guys instead of call them out is beyond me. We need to make there lives a living hell for the minute of two we see them each week.

Yeah! Damned cancers! How could I be so complacent? I mean, just because there are better things to worry about, like the gang violence, drug dealing, etc in my neighborhood.

Maybe people are complacent because *gasp* they honestly don't care. Good, scalpers suck, blah blah blah, sorry, but on my "suck-o-meter" they're pretty far down the list.

[FluSH]

E-mail: mayor_miller@toronto.ca

Mail:
Toronto City Hall, 2nd Floor, 100 Queen St. West, Toronto ON M5H 2N2
Phone:
416-397-CITY (2489)
Fax:
416-696-3687


Ontario MPP list

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/m...t.do?locale=en

This is so unlike you?!?! To email a protest?!... Are you ok?

[FluSH]

(Preamble: I am not a lawyer or involved in law in any way, but I do like to read up on laws and make sure I am informed)

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to get a charge under the "Safe Streets Act" to stick if your evidence is that video. I'm not saying I like scalpers, but my only interaction with them at BMO has been "You need tickets?" "No" "Ok". Hardly a violation of the act. The video shows a supporter initiating the altercation, again, I don't see that as aggressive solicitation. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and if it does, feel free to approach a police officer with a complaint, but you might want to ensure you weren't the one that started the altercation.

Trespass to property act would be even more sketchy. They're standing around exhibition place, public owned. Is it even possible to charge them with trespassing on public property?

Ticket Speculation Act I agree, they're violating. That being said, is it the job of the cops to try to police that? They are there to keep the peace, so will write citations for obvious infringements (alcohol), but charging someone under the Ticket Speculation Act is undoubtable more of a challenge. I'm sure they don't have the power to write a citation right there (as I believe the maximum fine is $5000, and must be proven in court) so would have to arrest them. Does anyone know the rules for arrest without warrent involving the Ticket Speculation Act? They would also need to actively search for scalpers (selling tickets is not illegal, selling them over face value is, so they would need to prove how much was paid, how much it was worth, etc, not an easy task).

Essentially, it would involve a lot more effort and resources than they currently have at BMO, and it would need a major complaint (from TFC itself) for them to even start caring.

Steve's a Crown Attorney don't lie!!!!

[Oblio2]

What happens if a scalper pulls out a gun or a knife?

Have you ever seen a mob beating?
Im nto saying it would or should happen. All i am saying is, IF a scalper became aggressive, you will have 50 or so people drop them quite easily and lay the boots....it's not easy to pull a knife or gun with a mob of people kicking ten layers of crap out of you.
Again, not agreeing with it, not saying it should happen or that it will....just saying that a group of 10-15 scalpers, should be aware of a few thousand (NOT Blue jay fans) but football fans....Half of them boozed up.

[Pigfynn]

Yeah! Damned cancers! How could I be so complacent? I mean, just because there are better things to worry about, like the gang violence, drug dealing, etc in my neighborhood.

Maybe people are complacent because *gasp* they honestly don't care. Good, scalpers suck, blah blah blah, sorry, but on my "suck-o-meter" they're pretty far down the list.

Dude, why does the rest of the city and or world have to come into this? We are a supporters group for TFC, talking about issues that concern the team and the game day experience...not your neighbourhood and it's problems.

This is a BMO field related problem that alot of people have concerns about..is that ok?

[Lenny Dikestra]

I say we Get rid of the Scalpers with Love.. Ask them to just go away ..Tell them they are ruining my day and I hate it that others have a chance to walk up and see the game for an extra 30 bucks or something..

Love them away..

[H Bomb]

Yeah! Damned cancers! How could I be so complacent? I mean, just because there are better things to worry about, like the gang violence, drug dealing, etc in my neighborhood.

Maybe people are complacent because *gasp* they honestly don't care. Good, scalpers suck, blah blah blah, sorry, but on my "suck-o-meter" they're pretty far down the list.

So are you getting out there and doing things about the Gang Violence and Drug Dealing...or are you just being apathetic...

[Lenny Dikestra]

Dude, why does the rest of the city and or world have to come into this? We are a supporters group for TFC, talking about issues that concern the team and the game day experience...not your neighbourhood and it's problems.

This is a BMO field related problem that alot of people have concerns about..is that ok?

YOu are a complete Idiot..
"gameday experience " You need to smoke some crack to get a clue..
Society is society dummy , not your gameday expeience ..You whacko

[Steve]

Dude, why does the rest of the city and or world have to come into this? We are a supporters group for TFC, talking about issues that concern the team and the game day experience...not your neighbourhood and it's problems.

This is a BMO field related problem that alot of people have concerns about..is that ok?

Feel free to have concerns with it, I'm not saying you shouldn't. I was taking issue with this:

If you don't stand up for what you believe in no one else will do it for you. These guys represent a societal cancer that needs to be snuffed out.

Societal cancer? Calling people out for apathy? I'm just saying, maybe this issue isn't as big of a deal for some people, and that doesn't suggest anything negative about them.

[Pigfynn]

YOu are a complete Idiot..
"gameday experience " You need to smoke some crack to get a clue..
Society is society dummy , not your gameday expeience ..You whacko

Hey Fuckhead what does what you just wrote even mean? I'm tired of your useless posts. Steve's neighbourhood issues would be better addressed on a "Steve's neighbourhood" message board, don't you think?

[Steve]

So are you getting out there and doing things about the Gang Violence and Drug Dealing...or are you just being apathetic...

Actually I volunteer for an organisation called "Pathways to education" which tutors kids in Reagant park, as well as provides financial aid for them to attend post-secondary education if they want to. Through a multi-pronged approach, yes, pathways has been successful in lowering teenage deliquancy by giving the kids some real hope for the future.

I'm sorry, we were talking about scalping?

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

"fat fukking parasite"

awesome and funny and true!......i need a sandwich

[H Bomb]

^ I do think Scalpers are a societal cancer...and I do think people are being apathetic. But also if you want to let them be please feel free to, you won't see me chasing you down to get in their faces. But I will be doing something to try to fix a problem.

Why are people defending scalpers here anyways? It's like a "save the pedophiles" march