OFFICIAL - DERO TRADED (Confirmed by TFC)

[Pigfynn]

Actually...in my opinion I believe it was Winter's loose grasp of English that caused this problem.

What I actually think happened was that TFC and DeRo simply came to the conclusion that there was no resolution that either side would like and that a trade would have been acceptable to both sides.

Simple.

I don't think Winter is a liar, but I do think the way he phrased his answer caused this problem, as did the way DeRo answered it in NY.

Reasonable no? But I guess my DeRo coloured glasses are on again.

In the end, DeRo wanted to stay in Toronto. That much I can tell you I am more certain of than I am of almost anything. But I also know he wasn't willing to stay under circumstances he was not happy with. How this is an unreasonable point, I have no idea but I guess in a lynch mob, you will grasp at any reason to attack a person.

For the record, I did not attack anyone..thank you.

I am merely discussing the question of what was meant by DeRo's words and that our own coach has said that the player asked to be traded.

[Roogsy]

That's the most logical conclusion.

It's just one side says "He asked for a trade" (we can't agree on a contract, we'll have to trade him) and the other side said "I didn't ask for a trade." (I want a new contract, if not here, somewhere else.)

I guess it speaks much about the difficulties of understanding each other on the internet when something so small gets blown out of proportion.

Of course, the way Ben Rycroft promoted his discovery didn't help.

[Roogsy]

For the record, I did not attack anyone..thank you.

I am merely discussing the question of what was meant by DeRo's words and that our own coach has said that the player asked to be traded.

I most certainly consider it an attack when you put words in someone's mouth as you and others are doing to Dwayne here. It exemplifies how unfair and lacking objectivity this whole situation has been viewed by either side, myself included.

[GeorgeBest]

Meh!

Happy trails, Dero! You were a great player for TFC.

Good luck Tchani and Borman!

[Pigfynn]

Where and when have I put words in his mouth? show me

[Whoop]

It's not small because both sides are accusing each other of being liars.

DeRo says that Winter is a liar. Winter is saying DeRo is a liar.

Like many people but I don't like being called a liar, when I'm not. So people fight back.

Did DeRo ask to be traded? No. But at some point he probably figured it would be best to be traded. And to the TFC brass that would be the same as asking to be traded.

So in essence, both parties are right.

[Roogsy]

Where and when have I put words in his mouth? show me

For starters, in my mouth by saying I called Winter a liar.

[Pigfynn]

Ok...hahaha

Ok, you're right you did not directly call him a liar. You said that he has such little grasp on the english language that when he was asked if Dero asked to be traded and he said YES that he really didn't know what he was saying.

Is that right?

[backbeat]

It's not small because both sides are accusing each other of being liars.

DeRo says that Winter is a liar. Winter is saying DeRo is a liar.

Like many people but I don't like being called a liar, when I'm not. So people fight back.

Did DeRo ask to be traded? No. But at some point he probably figured it would be best to be traded. And to the TFC brass that would be the same as asking to be traded.

So in essence, both parties are right.

that's exactly what Winter said - TFC offered a good contract to DeRo - he didn't like it - so DeRo asked to be traded - and now DeRo has confirmed that is what happened. period

also it seems - and we will i'm sure hear whether this is confirmed or not - but that DeRo's agent was the one who approached NYRB's not TFC.

[Roogsy]

also it seems - and we will i'm sure hear whether this is confirmed or not - but that DeRo's agent was the one who approached NYRB's not TFC.

"it seems" based on what?

[Roogsy]

Ok...hahaha

Ok, you're right you did not directly call him a liar. You said that he has such little grasp on the english language that when he was asked if Dero asked to be traded and he said YES that he really didn't know what he was saying.

Is that right?

That is quite the interesting way to summarize the intereview!

“He was not happy with that and at a certain moment he came to us to ask to be traded and that’s the real story,” Winter said following TFC’s 1-1 tie against Chivas USA, in the first game since De Rosario was traded to the New York Red Bulls on Friday.

Does that match your previous statement of how the question was asked?

[Darlofletch]

Actually I completely agree with this. But how this makes us reach the point of him asking to leave town is a chasm bigger than the Grand Canyon.

What colour are DeRo headphones? I might get some... I am going to guess green? I am thinking more likely gold...


Let me ask just one question that I hope people answer.

What do people think was DeRo's preferred outcome to the contract negotiations in terms of where he played and for how much?

haven't had time to read through this whole thing at all. In answer to that question, I'd guess his preferred outcome would have been two things. to stay in toronto, and to get a better contract.

when push came to shove, and given all the managerial crap that comes with the staying in toronto option, he decided the better contract was the most important of those two and so requested/agreed to a trade.

[BFin]

[Pigfynn]

That is quite the interesting way to summarize the intereview!



Does that match your previous statement of how the question was asked?

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp

In this interview Winter first says that DeRo came to them and asked to traded. He is then asked TWICE to clarify that DeRo did in fact ask to be traded and he answers "Ya" twice.

I'm sorry man but the guy asked to be traded or else you think Winter is lying or very, very dumb. He cleary understands the question.

[Roogsy]

haven't had time to read through this whole thing at all. In answer to that question, I'd guess his preferred outcome would have been two things. to stay in toronto, and to get a better contract.

when push came to shove, and given all the managerial crap that comes with the staying in toronto option, he decided the better contract was the most important of those two and so requested/agreed to a trade.

Exactly. And I hope most people see this reasonable description of the situation as the final word. I think the issue people are stupidly arguing about now is whether he actually "requested" a trade. Like it matters now.

[Whoop]

The liar in all this really is...

Gareth Wheeler

I think Winter and DeRo have both explained that they couldn't come to an agreement and that a trade was best, but Wheeler started with DeRo's quote of "I didn't ask to be traded, I wanted a new contract."

I think that's what Rycroft was stating was contradicting. Because in his tweet he was referring to a contradiction with the paper.

(Yes, I know DeRo wanted a new contract and didn't want to be traded... but at some point a trade request was made or agreed upon.)

[Roogsy]

The liar in all this really is...

Gareth Wheeler

I think Winter and DeRo have both explained that they couldn't come to an agreement and that a trade was best, but Wheeler started with DeRo's quote of "I didn't ask to be traded, I wanted a new contract."

I think that's what Rycroft was stating was contradicting. Because in his tweet he was referring to a contradiction with the paper.

(Yes, I know DeRo wanted a new contract and didn't want to be traded... but at some point a trade request was made or agreed upon.)

Wheeler simply quoted DeRo, I would assume accurately. SO I don't know how that would make Wheeler a liar. It's called framing and I think Wheeler did it as did Ben Rycroft with the audio clip.

[Alixir]

What you want is nice and all but it doesn't benefit him. At what point exactly did DeRo stop playing where you could complain that he didn't honour his contract?

never did I say that he stopped playing. How did signing a contract that he did not like benefit him....if he knew it was not going to benefit him then why the hell would he sign it really??...did he read the thing?

[Darlofletch]

Exactly. And I hope most people see this reasonable description of the situation as the final word. I think the issue people are stupidly arguing about now is whether he actually "requested" a trade. Like it matters now.

I imagine it went down something like this
de ro: hey new guys, i want a big contract
Winter/Mariner. you've already got a contract, we're not going to make you a dp
dero: I deserve a dp contract, look at the goals, look at my face on all your ads.
w/m: we'll see what we can do, but if you want dp you'll have to go somewhere else.
de ro:I don't want to go somewhere else, i want to stay here, but i deserve more money.
w/m here's what we'll do, we'll give you a bit extra, then when you retire we'll find you some kind of back office job, and a place on the wall of honour.
de ro: I don't want a post retirment job, i want a dp contract now.
w/m: not going to happen, we'll have to trade you if you want that.
dero: I don't want to be traded
w/m: well if you want dp you'll have to go somewhere else.
dero. oh for fucks sake, fine, trade me.

something like that anyway. would that translate to him requesting a trade? yes and no I suppose, I wouldn't call any party a liar, just purposely looking at the same conversation from different angles.

[Roogsy]

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp

In this interview Winter first says that DeRo came to them and asked to traded. He is then asked TWICE to clarify that DeRo did in fact ask to be traded and he answers "Ya" twice.

I'm sorry man but the guy asked to be traded or else you think Winter is lying or very, very dumb. He cleary understands the question.

A few things.

1) I only read the Star's interview, I no longer watch TFC produced items.

2) For those who still don't know what a "closed" question is, you have one right there! A reporter specifically says "I am sorry did you say he asked for the trade?" "Yup". Some people need to learn these things.

3) You fail to point out Winter avoids elaborating if it happens AFTER he rejected the TFC offer. After the closed question above, the following reporters says "After turning down a new 3 year offer?" and Winter says "I don't want to speak a lot about Dwayne".

Sure...when the question needs clarifying, I forgot we have to get back on topic. Not like the question wasn't important, wouldn't provide necessary colour or the issue wasn't big news right?

I will also point out that in this interview, Winter says that DeRo wanted to be a DP, but what he doesn't tell us is that by the end, he dropped his DP demands. And Winter says they tried to make him DP and could not. Was that MLS or MLSE? I would be interested in seeing what happens in NY.

[Roogsy]

never did I say that he stopped playing. How did signing a contract that he did not like benefit him....if he knew it was not going to benefit him then why the hell would he sign it really??...did he read the thing?

You are jumping all over the place, not staying consistent with your original point. You say you wanted him to honour his current contract. So the only reason you would have to be upset with him is if he didn't honour it. And since you are upset with him, logic would require that you feel he has not honoured his contract and I am asking how so?

[TFCRegina]

Well, saying explicitly that you "NEVER" asked for a trade is pretty black... or white, wouldn't you say?

Why is there room for interpretation if his original statement is the truth?


What he said:

Question: Did you ask for a trade?
Answer: At first no but...


What he could have said if it was black and white:

Question: Did you ask for a trade?
Answer: No


... see the difference?

Except neither was the question he was asked.

You're parsing his words and taking from it what you want to take from it, rather than what he said. I knew you'd chime in with your typical bullshit Pookie.

By the way, How is that argument that De Rosario has no value to anyone working out? I still haven't heard your response on that. Of course, that's the bullshit I've come to expect from you.

De Ro apparently had enough value that a team was willing to give up 3 players for him...

[Alixir]

You are jumping all over the place, not staying consistent with your original point. You say you wanted him to honour his current contract. So the only reason you would have to be upset with him is if he didn't honour it. And since you are upset with him, logic would require that you feel he has not honoured his contract and I am asking how so?

no what I am saying...and have been saying since this whole shit show started is..you sign a contract, and you play out that contract. You don't go about demanding a new contract when you are in the middle of a current contract, nor do you paint the teams management black when they fail to give you what you want even though they did not have to offer him the steam off their shit to begin with until his current contract was up for renewal.

[Roogsy]

no what I am saying...and have been saying since this whole shit show started is..you sign a contract, and you play out that contract. You don't go about demanding a new contract when you are in the middle of a current contract, nor do you paint the teams management black when they fail to give you what you want even though they did not have to offer him the steam off their shit to begin with until his current contract was up for renewal.

So you're upset that he demanded a new contract? When he was in an option year with no guarantees you think that is unreasonable? Your opinion I guess. I won't argue it anymore. I can't make people see the risks to a player if they don't want to see it. It isn't a risk I would recommend for anyone in any field or industry but I guess as players they are not entitled to good advice.

[Mango Kid]

What do people think was DeRo's preferred outcome to the contract negotiations in terms of where he played and for how much?

My guess is that the latter outweighed the former, which is fine.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I would be interested in seeing what happens in NY.

I would be surprised if he gets DP at NY. Nice to see all the recognition DeRo got in his first game for them. The interview afterward was illuminating.

[Alixir]

So you're upset that he demanded a new contract? When he was in an option year with no guarantees you think that is unreasonable? Your opinion I guess. I won't argue it anymore. I can't make people see the risks to a player if they don't want to see it. It isn't a risk I would recommend for anyone in any field or industry but I guess as players they are not entitled to good advice.

I am not upset at all that he demanded a knew contract...I could give a rats ass what some guy I don't even know on a personal level does.

[backbeat]

"it seems" based on what?

on the interview on Rycroft's site the reporter asks DeRo that question stating that the Red Bulls made it seem like they were contacted by DeRo's agent not TFC:

(Eric) "Soler said they didn't make the 1st phone call, he made it seem like it wasn't from Toronto but one of your representatives"

[Waggy]

I imagine it went down something like this
de ro: hey new guys, i want a big contract
Winter/Mariner. you've already got a contract, we're not going to make you a dp
dero: I deserve a dp contract, look at the goals, look at my face on all your ads.
w/m: we'll see what we can do, but if you want dp you'll have to go somewhere else.
de ro:I don't want to go somewhere else, i want to stay here, but i deserve more money.
w/m here's what we'll do, we'll give you a bit extra, then when you retire we'll find you some kind of back office job, and a place on the wall of honour.
de ro: I don't want a post retirment job, i want a dp contract now.
w/m: not going to happen, we'll have to trade you if you want that.
dero: I don't want to be traded
w/m: well if you want dp you'll have to go somewhere else.
dero. oh for fucks sake, fine, trade me.

something like that anyway. would that translate to him requesting a trade? yes and no I suppose, I wouldn't call any party a liar, just purposely looking at the same conversation from different angles.

Think that's pretty much bang on

[Roogsy]

I am not upset at all that he demanded a knew contract...I could give a rats ass what some guy I don't even know on a personal level does.

So you are not upset that he wanted a new contract.

He was under his current contract and playing under it which shouldn't upset you either.

What exactly is the problem? Was it his public complaints?