I'm sure it was probably a bit of a culture shock to him, seeing how bad the officiating is here, compared to Europe.Originally Posted by J .
- Scott
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I'm sure it was probably a bit of a culture shock to him, seeing how bad the officiating is here, compared to Europe.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
The 4th goal was offside to me, but I haven't seen it definitively. Others have said it was, and some have said it wasn't.
I'll never know, because I'm not going back to re-hash a shite game.
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I recorded the game at home, so I could watch it when I got home - but when I got home I just deleted it instead, haha.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
wow just watched the post game - winter said, and I quote "the third goal was four or five meters offside"... I have just lost all respect for this man.
Dero's goal was questionable as well. I think the reason it wasn't called offside is because the commissioner has asked refs to give the attacking player the benefit of the doubt. In most leagues, the defense gets the beneft of the doubt.
Anyways, it's silly to mention the ref. He wasn't bad at all. I saw terrible refing in the world cup, see it in Europe all the time as well (Seria A tends to bug me alot with that). I think this ref thing is blown out of proportion here.
The way I saw Dero's goal was the lob pass was made while Dero was on side, and received the pass behind the defender, is that not onside?
4th goal, the ball over the top to knight looked marginally offside, but very close and it could be the tv angle, we never got a great look at it. definitely wasn't yards offside as winter claimed.
as for cann at lb, problem was he kept playing as if he was a cb. vancouvers first 2 goals, who was jumping with hassli to win the big boot dowen the pitch form nolly? cann. thus he was out of position and they were able to attack and score from their right wing.
don't know if he was told to do that, or took it upon himself, or if it was just smart play by vancouver to be kicking the ball to that side of the pitch to draw him into doing just that.
at corners as well, cann was the guy wrestling with hassli. if he's going to be asked to do the "big strong cb" stuff, why have him at lb?
the whole "his hand was forced" thing, I don't like the sound of that, but the other options are winter's an idiot, or winter's a stubborn petty bastard. none of the options are good ones.
I agree wholeheartedly about the Cann debacle. As soon as I saw him at LB I knew we were in trouble. I guess we'll never know the true reasoning behind such a questionable maneuver. I suspect it was to force Cann to earn his regular spot back in the lineup after he left the team? Why teach him a lesson at the cost of 3 points though? In any case, it's definitely disturbing...
Winter is really starting to worry me. I know it's early and I'm not saying can him, but as for early impressions I'm a little troubled. To make such an outrageous comment that their third goal was "4 to 5 yards offside" - when do you ever see someone more than 1 yard offside in pro soccer?!
and to imply we could have seen a result if that goal was disallowed for offside. He complains about the officiating in a game that was lost due to obvious glaring mistakes from our players. That was quite possibly the craziest interview I've heard in a while, he's either a) delusional b) thinks we are idiots who'll believe anything he says or c) and I hope its this - perhaps there is a problem with his english and he mispoke?
So was that one that Hutch scored in 2007.
or d) he really looked like he was 4-5 yards offside.
I'm not saying he was, but if you go back and watch the play, IMO he was slightly offside but what made it look so offside was Cann who was marking Knight (I think) and at the last second he realized that they were playing a trap and slammed on the breaks. So if you were watching the ball then looked at Knight he was like 5 yards beyond Cann, who just finished stopping and started looking for a flag. Tough call either way since I think the linesman was up field.
I agree it was a close call, most are at this level. I happen to think it was onside but didn't get the greatest look at it. It was an easy one for the linesman, the ball was far side and the pass telegraphed - he would have had a good view.
Anyways, offside or not, my concern is that Winter seemed to deflect blame onto the officiating when imo they had nothing to do with the outcome. How many times did Vancouver get behind our defense? How many breakaways? Yet according to him, one of the reasons we lost is because the officials didn't call the third goal offside. This infuriates me to no end...
These "losing to an expansion side is a disgrace" comments piss me off. Vancouver have had the same coach and system for a few years now, we could barely beat them in the NCC the last three years, and we've always been terrible on the road.
I actually thought we were more threatening in attack than ever before on the road, JDG is gonna shine in this system, and once we get attakora and cann togeher in the centre our defence should stabilize.
I'm confident things will turn around.
I think the 4th goal was not offside. (And most certainly not by a few metres.) I admit it was a quick play with overlapping players. While watching the game live I was sure it was offside myself, so I can see how Winter & others were confused. It's pretty well visible on the "game in 6 minutes" though. I did my best to grab a screenshot at the right moment:
It's a matter of inches & milliseconds, and it depends exactly where in the kicking motion of the passing player you freeze the frame. (I don't have any software here to do a good job of that.) Note the camera is on a slight angle, but Cann is at least even with the attacker, and there is absolutely no "line" being held by any TFC player. In many leagues around the world, they wouldn't call this either, or not consistently, so the defenders shouldn't rely on it.
FIFA has said for years that even is not offside. In the past years, we saw many bad offside calls in MLS, where guys were called that were onside. The linesmen don't have slo-mo & freeze frame, so there is often some doubt. I think the league is now just instructing the officials, it should be clearly offside w/o a doubt if you call it.
TFC & Winter better adapt to this quickly. It was shocking the way all the TFC players gave up on the 4th goal.
Now I do think the ref made some other very bad (non-) calls. E.g., when Hassli crunched Attakora early on, near the side. I thought it was a card for sure, but the ref didn't even give a freekick, it was just a throw-in. Admittedly, some bad decisions favoured TFC as well. In any case, for Winter to hype up the officiating after such a piss-poor performance by TFC, does not bode well for him dealing with some of the bigger crap that he's going to experience in this league.
I think we can all agree it was close. The only reason it was so close was Cann fucking up and stopping too late. Either way nobody ran back after and that could have made a difference.
I totally agree with you about the ref, he called a very physical game and kept his whistle in his pocket when he shouldn't have. That said I don't think Winter berating his players in public would be very productive, what he did may have been a way of deflecting more so than a comment on the ref. Not sure why everyone thinks it's so heinous. I guess his true motives will be seen later on in the season.
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