POST GAME RANT: Whitecaps VS TFC

[rocker]

Sorry I can't agree. If your team looks like they competed and threatened during the game and still lost, that's acceptable. But against an expansion side, looking like we're in shambles, losing by two but could have lost by more? This is a bad loss.

By your rationale, no loss on the road is bad unless it's a complete blowout by even more goals.

But you're projecting your emotions on this loss. Look at it with logic -- we lost 3 points.

There's no such thing as a "bad loss" in the standings. A loss is a loss.
There are no judges, like in figure skating, giving more points to Vancouver for looking good.

There's also no such thing as momentum in sports.

Now, the defense better get better or we're fucked, but it was one game.

Don't take it any harder than any other loss.

[Pachuco]

I was watching the Arsenal game today and they were down 2 goals at the half with 65% of possession. Yes they came back and tied the game in the 2nd half, but the point is made. Possession is only one of many elements to what it takes to win.

Actually, and although Arsenal had 65% of possession, it was atleast in West Brom's side of the field. If there is something to me that was obvious today is that the possession stat really needs to be modified to account for posession in the opposing side of the field. This would atleast give you an idea of the team that was absorbing the pressure.

In the Arsenal game you could tell they were going to get through WBA any minute.

Our game was a different story.

[jloome]

I dont want another 3-5 year plan

Why do we go through these 3-5 year plans?

Let's try Seattles plan.

Year 1 - get a good DP, a proven MLS coach with first team coaching experience, a few 'names', make the playoffs, win the US Open Cup.

year 2 - Adapt to roster changes, make a push for the MLS cup, win the US Open Cup again.

Year 2, late - have your first DP implode on you.

Year 3 - Have your second DP implode on you, replace him with O'Brien White. Lose first two games of the season.

[TFC Bhoy]

Just got back from Shoeless, we had a good crowd there and got some good chants going, and that was about the best thing. God that was brutal to watch at times. Couldn't close anyone down, our passes were shite, couldn't hit our own players at all. D were just a joke.

TRYING to look at some positives, DeRo had some nice play (though a couple of times I wanted more passes from him, but we all know that isn't going to happen), Santos is looking good still and will give DeRo a run for his money for top goal scorer for us this year. And as we pretty well say every game, Frei was great!!! Stopped a couple BIG shots including a partial break. If it wasn't for him it would have easily been 6 or 7 I think

[Shakes McQueen]

I was watching the Arsenal game today and they were down 2 goals at the half with 65% of possession. Yes they came back and tied the game in the 2nd half, but the point is made. Possession is only one of many elements to what it takes to win.

But it IS one of the elements required to win. It isn't everything, and I never claimed it was.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Actually, and although Arsenal had 65% of possession, it was atleast in West Brom's side of the field. If there is something to me that was obvious today is that the possession stat really needs to be modified to account for posession in the opposing side of the field. This would atleast give you an idea of the team that was absorbing the pressure.

In the Arsenal game you could tell they were going to get through WBA any minute.

Our game was a different story.

Fair point.

- Scott

[wzhxvy]

Ah well...I am not as upset as I was in the past for some reason. I want to see how they play at home first.

[BayernTFC]

The point is that there were good elements and bad elements. The defence was a fucking shambles. But several offensive moves and periods of possession were very promising.

Plus, it's fairly obvious where the talent gaps are. We're just going to have to lump it until Mariner finds the right pegs to replace those pieces -- and hope Winter limits the defensive experiments.

I agree with theses statements. I hope that the obvious is recognized and addressed.

[Heart of Stone]

Last year we lost 4-1 to New England during week 2 and still bounced back to be in the thick of things for most of the season...

[LesH]

Losing 1-nil or 2-1 isn't bad. Losing by 2 goals is bad but it's even worse when you've let in 4 and you look like you don't know what you're doing. It...is...bad.


And then add to that the fact that it was against an expansion side. Fail is the exact word for it.

This.
I can't understand the guys who are saying this wasn't a humiliating result.

[Alonso]

Like I said, losing on the road is normal in MLS. A two goal loss is not a big deal. If it was at home, I'd agree with you. But if you look around the league, every season, teams have awful home records.

You meant away records right?

[Shakes McQueen]

Ah well...I am not as upset as I was in the past for some reason. I want to see how they play at home first.

I will be interested to see what the reaction is from Winter, in response to the loss, and what adjustments he makes to the lineup.

- Scott

[ArmenJBX]

It's a tough loss simply because we're playing an expansion side.
Although looking at Seattle, which expanded out of the lower divisions, being an expansion side doesn't necessarily make you bad.

Let's look now to the Portland game; an impressive showing at home, coupled with (hopefully) 3 points will stem the tide a bit.

Winter now has some defensive discipline he will need to instill into this squad. The defending was house league stuff. They have got to buck up.

[Pachuco]

a 4-2 loss in the regular season is a 4-2 loss. It doesn't matter that it's to an expansion team. You are not being objective.

Objectively, we lost a game 4-2 and lost 3 points. It doesn't matter if it was KC or VAN or LA or DC. It's a 4-2 loss on the road.

We don't lose 6 points or 9 points for losing to Vancouver.

Of course, if we beat Portland next week people will be saying "well, you should beat Portland, they are an expansion team." But in the end it's about wins and losses.

WHAT? seriously? Well let's see. If you lose to an expansion team 4-2 in the first MLS game of the season, an expansion team which by the way you predicted sucked and couldn't score. It's the same as losing to say RSL your first game of the season?

Really? You think it's irrelevant who they play? Sorry man, I'll never understand your logic and you sould like tonight you are hear to apologize for TFC's horrible performance.

[scooterTFC]

Losing 1-nil or 2-1 isn't bad. Losing by 2 goals is bad but it's even worse when you've let in 4 and you look like you don't know what you're doing. It...is...bad.


And then add to that the fact that it was against an expansion side. Fail is the exact word for it.

Agreed. Losing in the opener to an expansion side is bad. Letting in 4 goals is terrible.

I think he was trying to say their were some signs of optimism for the rest of the season. And I agree with that sentiment. The back line can be tweaked, bench Harden, put Cann in the middle and look at Yourassowsky on the left. The midfield will get better with JDG on the field and 'Slowsma' on the bench. Zavarise showed well in the 2nd.

So yeah they sucked today...but they can get better.

I'm slightly worried about some of winter's player selections today. Hopefully he will quickly get a better feel for the league and the like of Harden, Slowsma and Maykouba will stay on the bench.

[Alonso]

D were just a joke.

TRYING to look at some positives, DeRo had some nice play (though a couple of times I wanted more passes from him, but we all know that isn't going to happen), Santos is looking good still and will give DeRo a run for his money for top goal scorer for us this year. And as we pretty well say every game, Frei was great!!! Stopped a couple BIG shots including a partial break. If it wasn't for him it would have easily been 6 or 7 I think

Totally agree with this.... Santos will thrive in this system. He's going to have a break out year.

[Cashcleaner]

At times Toronto looked rather shaky this game. At other times, they were downright embarrassing.

I actually left the bar during halftime and thought that even though we were down by one, we'd be able to pull something together, but boy did we play especially shitty in the 2nd half. Came back right after Harris scored his goal for Vancouver and couldn't believe how TFC was just teetering on the edge of a complete collapse.

I get how some are appealing for calm, but let's put things into perspective:

We lost.
4-2.
To an expansion club during their first league match.

And there's not a lot good things you can say about all that right now.


PS - Tell you what though, DeRo was yet again one of our best players on that pitch today. AGAIN.

[Heart of Stone]

Santos' goal will be up for MLS Goal-of-the-Week... brilliant strike!

[Walnut]

Last year we lost 4-1 to New England during week 2 and still bounced back to be in the thick of things for most of the season...

I in the thick of things a euphemism for being not very good consistently...?

[werewolf]

[noochie]

looking around the league tonight... Seattle has serious finishing issues... Portland doesn't look very good in the first half against the champs.

Every other team in action looks better than TFC by a mile.

[BayernTFC]

Soolsma, I thought was decent, he might have been a bit nervous.

I didn't think he was that bad. He certainly wasn't the worst player on the pitch. I noticed DeRo and Soolsma weren't on the same wavelength. At least things with Soolsma look like they can improve with more understanding between teammates.

[Heart of Stone]

I in the thick of things a euphemism for being not very good consistently...?

From week 7 to week 14 of last year's season we did not lose... yes, at that point of the season we were close to the top of our division...

[Pachuco]

But you're projecting your emotions on this loss. Look at it with logic -- we lost 3 points.

There's no such thing as a "bad loss" in the standings. A loss is a loss.
There are no judges, like in figure skating, giving more points to Vancouver for looking good.

There's also no such thing as momentum in sports.

Now, the defense better get better or we're fucked, but it was one game.

Don't take it any harder than any other loss.

Hopefully you aren't in the business of coaching or anything. You know, some losses can be a morale victory because it's all based on circumstances.

TFC tying Cruz Azul 1-1 away from home was a massive victory. It was massive because it was never expected that TFC could go into Mexico and tie the Mexican giants.

Unfortunately your theory says, it was 1 point. That's all it was.

[ExiledRed]

Year 2, late - have your first DP implode on you.

Year 3 - Have your second DP implode on you, replace him with O'Brien White. Lose first two games of the season.

Ill take Seattles first two seasons over any two of our four seasons( and more than possibly, this one too) is all I'm saying.

[noochie]

looking around the league tonight... Seattle has serious finishing issues... Portland doesn't look very good in the first half against the champs.

Every other team in action looks better than TFC by a mile.

Oh and an interesting (if unsurprising) note- doesn't appear to be a single sell-out.

[jloome]

I think it's interesting that four of our five particularly weak players today -- Gargan, Sturgis, Peterson, Harden and Cann -- are our American starters.

[denime]

I think we should fire Winter!


WTF did you expect to see today,Barcelona or Arsenal?

There is no play offs this year for TFC ,and if you did not get that before today's game ,maybe you should stop drinking MLSE KOOL Aid.

Until we get rid of Preki's leftovers aka Harden,Gargan,Petersen,we can't play this system.We are better of with our Academy kids at least they can control ball FFS.

This is going to be a long season,so for your own good guys chill out, this was game 1 from 30.

[Pachuco]

Year 2, late - have your first DP implode on you.

Year 3 - Have your second DP implode on you, replace him with O'Brien White. Lose first two games of the season.

Again though, if there are games you are allowed to lose it's 1-0 games against NY and LA. Circumstances for Seattle are much different then they are for us. We just played what is supposed to be the worst team in all of the MLS and lost 4-2. Of course that doesn't even get into the quality of Seattle's side and how much better they have been then TFC in their first 2 years.

[rocker]

Hopefully you aren't in the business of coaching or anything. You know, some losses can be a morale victory because it's all based on circumstances.

I can lend you the book Soccernomics (and some other articles) where it's proven that momentum doesn't exist in sports. The stats prove it.

If you want to believe in that myth, then go ahead.

Humans believe momentum exists, but it's unproven statistically.