JDG2 wants to play for TFC

[BeerBaron95]

How can you be a TFC fan and say that? They have a Maple Leaf on their jersey, have a Canadian flag on their sleeve, have a stated goal of developing Canadian players, use Canadian internationals to market and promo the team, make Canadian eligilable academy players promise to declare for Canada. How can you say that this team has nothing to do with the MNT when it's done everything imaginable to link itself to the MNT?

Bringing in a player who's turned his back on our country goes against everything that this team has said it stands for and represents.

Maybe u are not understanding... when i say one has nothing to do with the other it means that JDG2 choosing to not play or declaring for Canada should'nt impact his decision to play for TFC.

Ppl around here need to chill out with it... If this is the basis to not wanting/having him on TFC and make the team that much better, then that is ridiculous and absurd... Hate on him for not playing on the CMNT to your hearts desire but dont say he shouldnt play for TFC because of it

I care far more about TFC than I do the CMNT.. I will support Canada when they play but TFC comes first every day of the week for me. I wont hate on a guy who chooses to play under a different national team. There are alot of cases exactly like this in many other sports including futbol

so that being said

1. So should I as a Canadian be a Toronto Maple Leafs because they have a leaf on their shirt too?

2. Keep the dramatics to a minimum

[BeerBaron95]

I didn't (and still don't) like his decision to call himself Dutch from a footballing perspective. That said, I'd choke back those feelings if he came to TFC.


- Scott

EXACTLY!!!

[CretanBull]

Maybe u are not understanding... when i say one has nothing to do with the other it means that JDG2 choosing to not play or declaring for Canada should'nt impact his decision to play for TFC.

As far as his point of view goes, I have no doubt that he thinks that he should be able to play for whatever team he wants to. As supporters, we also get to make choices about who we accept and who we don't. I wouldn't accept him based on his decision to turn his back on our country.

Ppl around here need to chill out with it... If this is the basis to not wanting/having him on TFC and make the team that much better, then that is ridiculous and absurd... Hate on him for not playing on the CMNT to your hearts desire but dont say he shouldnt play for TFC because of it

I think character matters. I don't follow the NFL, but if I did I wouldn't want Michael Vick on my team. Why is it ridiculous and absurd to make people accountable for the decisions that they've made? He chose Holland over Canada - good for him - but one of the reprocussions of that decision is that he isn't welcomed to play for a team that's dedicated to developing Canadian talent.

I care far more about TFC than I do the CMNT.. I will support Canada when they play but TFC comes first every day of the week for me. I wont hate on a guy who chooses to play under a different national team. There are alot of cases exactly like this in many other sports including futbol

That's cool, I understand your point of view. Other people feel differently though, I'd always put country before club. Playing for a club means playing for a pay-check. Playing for your country means playing for pride. When players make themselves mercenaries and turn their backs on where they are from to further their career its shows that they don't value pride.

so that being said

1. So should I as a Canadian be a Toronto Maple Leafs because they have a leaf on their shirt too?

You can be a fan of whoever you want. This isn't about fans, its about TFC's choice to link itself to the national program in every possible way and whether or not it should welcome a player who turned his back on the national program. Based on TFC's own stated goals, it would be a hypocritical move.

2. Keep the dramatics to a minimum

No drama, just people sharing ideas

In short, my point of view is that no matter how bad things are at TFC I'm not interested in turning to a traitor to become our saviour. We can't be that desparate - there are other players in the world who would come here for the kind of money JDG2 would want.

[Macksam]

How did i not clear up my statement... I dont care he chose to play for holland than for Canada.

What is it with him having to play for the country he was born in, knowing he has 2 citizenships.. he chose what was best for his career and building his soccer potential/skill.

Im a proud canadian but if given the chance he had, I would have made the exact same choice... Club team has nothing to do with the MNT.. lets not lose sight of that.

You didn't answer my question on why you are confused about how other people have a problem with it.

Why do you think others would have a problem with it? Come on, man up and think this through.

[BeerBaron95]

You didn't answer my question on why you are confused about how other people have a problem with it.

Why do you think others would have a problem with it? Come on, man up and think this through.

lmao.. *pats macksam on head* go bark up another tree... seriously, move along.

LMFAO.. got my laugh of the day with that

[Parkdale]

ease it up guys.


let's not get bothered over a strictly hypothetical situation.

[BeerBaron95]

ease it up guys.


let's not get bothered over a strictly hypothetical situation.

cool as a cucumber Parky.. im still wiping away tears from that

[Parkdale]

oh I know you're laughing it off.

[BeerBaron95]

Indeed

[Pachuco]

I think you're kind of misunderstanding why I personally think people don't like what he did. It isn't about people being upset that Canada didn't get a return on investment from him, it's that they feel he should have been more honoured to represent the country he grew up in - the land of opportunity his family benefited from.

I didn't (and still don't) like his decision to call himself Dutch from a footballing perspective. That said, I'd choke back those feelings if he came to TFC.

On another note, I don't like it when players say they'd like to come to MLS "in a few years" (the implication always being "when my best years are behind me"). It doesn't help the league's reputation as a haven for near retirees to cash in.

- Scott

I'm not mis-understanding anyone. My only mis-understanding was the spelling of Dutch. I was replying directly to someone who was conveniently leaving out a massive part of JDG2's career in order to make a point that he shoul've selected Canada. That's all.

I understand why some people aren't happy with his decision, although I'll never agree with it. I came here when I was 10. If I made it to play professional football I certainly would've represented Canada and not my native country. I would've used their resources and climbed up the latter in Canada's system. But I sure as hell wouldn't expect my native country to piss on me because I chose Canada. And guess what? I identify with being Venezolano. When people ask me where I am from, I say Venezuela. My culture is something I won't let go and is something I'll never stop identifying with. I feel way more Venezuelan then I do Canadian. But that won't make a difference in who I represent. JDG2 learned to play soccer beginning at the age of 12 in Holland. I'm sure most of what he knows he learned there. He may feel Canadian, but he knows Dutsch soccer and he would be turning his back on the Dutsch if he chose Canada at this point.

Nobody will ever convince me that if the situation was reversed that most of you wouldn't be sitting here complaining about how JDG2 used Canadian resources and then turned his back on Canada. Let's say TFC's academy finds the next Sanyang at 12 years old. He moves here, gets his citizenship, represents Canada's youth national teams and then goes off and at 23 years of age he decides to play for Gambia. Would you not be insulted? would you not be sitting here saying what the heck did TFC's Academy and the national team programs invest all this money for if he is just going to turn his back?

There are many times on this site that I feel people are way to sensitive to the whole CMNT thing and players leaving, even those with good reason. Take your hatred out on the pathetic organization that runs soccer in this country and stop taking it out on those that left because Canada gave them no choice. The new generation of Canadians have something to look forward to (albeit thanks to the U.S getting their act together with soccer). JDG2 didn't have that when he was 12 so who can blame him?

As for him being allowed to play for TFC, I hold no grudges if it makes the team better. TFC is who I support, TFC is the team I fund and someone's decision to play or not play for Canada is irrelevant. We have lots of foreigners on the team, he would just simply be another foreigner on the team.

[scooter]

lets not even go there he would probably be another bust like his brother

lets think and look forward to the future our new management/coaches will develop our own homegrown players

no more time for the deguzmans of the world cause reading between the lines i think what is really meant is he would like to play for tfc if they are foolish enough to throw money at him like they did his brother

ie 1.7 million to do sweet f--k all

who wouldnt come home for that kind of cake

dero came home and he wants some cake too

[CretanBull]

Pachuco, I understand your point of view, but wouldn't you agree that because TFC have tied its identity and purpose to the CMNT and the developement of Canadian players that the issue is more complicated? From an idological perspective, how can they say the purpose of the club is to develope Canadian talent - to the point where they make academy players promise to play for Canada - and then bring in a star player who's turned his back on Canada?

[brad]

Nobody will ever convince me that if the situation was reversed that most of you wouldn't be sitting here complaining about how JDG2 used Canadian resources and then turned his back on Canada.

Radzinski. Polish, started his playing career in Poland. Moved to Germany around the age of 14 for around 3 years. Came to Canada when he was 17 or 18. He was only in Canada for around 4 years before going back overseas to play.

Didn't here a lot of folks complaining about that him playing for Canada. So yes, I would agree that the blinders only go one way...

[Roogsy]

I think the issue here is that while TFC does promote the ideal of helping the CMNT, there is no official tie and no direct obligation of TFC to do so. Their stated goal is to help develop soccer in Canada, which in itself implies helping the CMNT, but their goal in helping "develop" soccer is simply to entrench their own product. There is no altruistic goal on the part of TFC. This is purely a protective measure to make sure their own product survives and thrives.

At the end of the day, TFC should do what is in it's own best interest. When it serves them, they will use "soccer in Canada" to their advantage. But when it doesn't suit them, believe me they won't pay much attention to the CMNT or the CSA.

The same goes with players. I personally find what JDG did distasteful but it was his choice and I am not going to get all worked up about it. We have nationals from other countries on TFC (or did at least, I don't think we have a single national except for Canadians anymore LOL!) and these players would technically be our "enemies" on the pitch during international competitions. However, while on TFC, they are "our" players. I would feel the same about JDG2 if he even finds his way to TFC. To me...he is no longer Canadian. So if he can come here and help us win an MLS Cup...so be it. He won't be my favourite player, but I certainly won't turn away any production he can generate for us.

There needs to be a separation of club and country. Once you start mixing the two, you hinder your own development and progress.

[BeerBaron95]

I think the issue here is that while TFC does promote the ideal of helping the CMNT, there is no official tie and no direct obligation of TFC to do so. Their stated goal is to help develop soccer in Canada, which in itself implies helping the CMNT, but their goal in helping "develop" soccer is simply to entrench their own product. There is no altruistic goal on the part of TFC. This is purely a protective measure to make sure their own product survives and thrives.

At the end of the day, TFC should do what is in it's own best interest. When it serves them, they will use "soccer in Canada" to their advantage. But when it doesn't suit them, believe me they won't pay much attention to the CMNT or the CSA.

The same goes with players. I personally find what JDG did distasteful but it was his choice and I am not going to get all worked up about it. We have nationals from other countries on TFC (or did at least, I don't think we have a single national except for Canadians anymore LOL!) and these players would technically be our "enemies" on the pitch during international competitions. However, while on TFC, they are "our" players. I would feel the same about JDG2 if he even finds his way to TFC. To me...he is no longer Canadian. So if he can come here and help us win an MLS Cup...so be it. He won't be my favourite player, but I certainly won't turn away any production he can generate for us.

There needs to be a separation of club and country. Once you start mixing the two, you hinder your own development and progress.

Making all sorts of sense Roogs

[Mark in Ottawa]

Hmmm... "If he could play for any team"... and what stops him from playing for TFC exactly?

He didn't say when... or for how much $$ did he?
We may see him in a number of years after he has finished at higher tiers of football than MLS has on offer.

[Pachuco]

Pachuco, I understand your point of view, but wouldn't you agree that because TFC have tied its identity and purpose to the CMNT and the developement of Canadian players that the issue is more complicated? From an idological perspective, how can they say the purpose of the club is to develope Canadian talent - to the point where they make academy players promise to play for Canada - and then bring in a star player who's turned his back on Canada?

I just can't sympathize with your argument for the following reasons:

1. I've already stated that I feel it's unfair to say JDG2 turned his back on Canada. He would be turning his back on the Dutch if he didn't choose them.

2. I've never heard of TFC's Academy making players sign a contract or make a promise that they'll play for Canada. But if that's true, I think it's terrible that TFC is making them do that. Good luck attracting say a good 17 year old from another country if you make that stipulation.

3. JDG2 didn't have TFC's Academy when he was 12. He had nothing but the local Scarborough park where he had to duck gunshots to play a friendly game .

4. I don't believe TFC's purpose is to grow Canadian talent. TFC's purpose is to win MLS cups and make money. I think you severly over exaggerate the connection with the CMNT. Roogsy said it best below, TFC's priority is to grow Canadian talent for their own purpose.

[a_billi]

Exactly. I find it hilarious that there are no complaints about Radzinski, De Jong, Jakovic, Pacheco, Klukowski. Canada wasn't their home country was it? Didn't see too many complaints when they decided to rep us instead. JDG2 went to Holland when he was what, 12? 14? What does he owe Canada exactly?

Radzinki played with the North York Rockets of the Canadan Soccer Leauge, and played with the St. Catherine Wolves of the NASL. His major development was in Canada and he got noticed in CANADA.

Jackovic: Born to an ethnic Serb family in Croatia prior to the break-up of the former Yugoslavia, Jakovic was brought by his parents to Canada at the age of six following the outbreak of the ethnic warfare in Croatia in 1991. They settled in Etobicoke, part of metropolitan Toronto.

Jakovic took up association football in Canada. He was a four-year letterwinner at Scarlett Heights Academy, and was named team MVP as a junior and senior, captaining both indoor and outdoor teams. He played in the Canadian national youth program, and also for two-time Ontario Cup winner Woodbridge Strikers under Bob Graham.

That is straight from the Jakovics wikipedia. He was taught the game here buddy. And Klukowski was part of the youth teams in Canada and i Believed he moved here at the age of seven or something. And Pacheco was never going to the make the Portaguese team and has even said he wants to send his kids here to go to school, and plus every country poaches players. You fail to realize just because someone wasnt born in Canada doesnt mean they shouldnt play for the national team.

[J .]

I think its important supporters are merciless in their support for Canada. For those who support TFC improving soccer in this country will improve the club. Bringing in outside talent raises the bar temporarily, but limits opportunity for domestic players. Improving chances and awareness for domestic playerswill limit the chance a player like JDG2 will split to a foreign land to develop.

When a player like JDG2 leaves, chooses his adopted country to play for and then wants to return to the land he grew up in, thats his choice. As supporters we should of course continue with 'sack the csa' campaigns but also put pressure on the players to know its not ok to turn your back on Canada and that Canadian soccer is important.

If as fans we do not make it clear that Canadian soccer has a place in our hearts and subsequently the world, we can never expect it to grow to its potential and that will affect the young athletes, the sports they choose and long term the prospects that can play for TFC.

I waited over 20 years for a professional team for me to root for in Canada. We have it and I want it to develop Canadian players, guys who will represent this nation. If that means missing a playoff date but leads to improved player development and a national soccer identity - sold. Id gladly sacrifice that as long term it improves the quality of the game for Canada, improves the chances kids will look at playing for TFC and Canada as a real footballing career dream.

We should look to become a land where the top clubs scour for Canadian players similar to how clubs look at Argentina and Brazil. Those clubs develop local domestic players. If we want to look at the best nations and the best players, we should look to the nations where many here clamour for more scouting, its those clubs which develop their local talent that have it right.

Lets get it right too.

[CretanBull]

I just can't sympathize with your argument for the following reasons:

1. I've already stated that I feel it's unfair to say JDG2 turned his back on Canada. He would be turning his back on the Dutch if he didn't choose them.

2. I've never heard of TFC's Academy making players sign a contract or make a promise that they'll play for Canada. But if that's true, I think it's terrible that TFC is making them do that. Good luck attracting say a good 17 year old from another country if you make that stipulation.

3. JDG2 didn't have TFC's Academy when he was 12. He had nothing but the local Scarborough park where he had to duck gunshots to play a friendly game .

4. I don't believe TFC's purpose is to grow Canadian talent. TFC's purpose is to win MLS cups and make money. I think you severly over exaggerate the connection with the CMNT. Roogsy said it best below, TFC's priority is to grow Canadian talent for their own purpose.

1. A debateable point. The Dutch can make a claim to his developement as a player, but he's still a Canadian with greater debts here - we paid for his public education, provided him with healthcare etc. I'm not sure if a Canadian who goes to school at Harvard feels like they're in debt to America (even if they're there on a full ride scholarship). A sticking point for me is that he still self-identifies as being Canadian and not Dutch.

2. It applies to Canadian eligible academy players, not all academy players.

3. I understand that, I don't blame players - even now with the TFC (and other) academies in place - with going elsewhere to further their careers. And if they go somewhere else, become a part of that country and identify with that country and want to represent them then all the power to them. I can't help but resent someone who wants to be identified as a Canadian, but won't represent us...he's not motivated by obligation or national pride - he's motivated by career opportunity. That's his choice to make, but I don't have to support it.

4. I'm not offering an opinion or over-stating anything - I'm quoting TFC's mission statement. In the same way that the MLS was set up to develope players for the USMNT, TFC set out to do the same for the CMNT. They wear red and white to emphasize their Canadian connection, they embed the maple-leaf on their jersey, they put our flag on their sleeve, they're stated goal is to become "Canada's team" and a destination for Canadian players. Again, that's not my opinion - it's what they stated themselves time and time again - check out the TFC website, its plainly states as much.

[Macksam]

lmao.. *pats macksam on head* go bark up another tree... seriously, move along.

LMFAO.. got my laugh of the day with that

I'm not barking up any tree. I just want to know why you are confused about why others would have a problem with it. Why are you confused why others would have a problem with it?

2. I've never heard of TFC's Academy making players sign a contract or make a promise that they'll play for Canada. But if that's true, I think it's terrible that TFC is making them do that. Good luck attracting say a good 17 year old from another country if you make that stipulation.

We don't need to attract a 17 year old from another country. There is more than enough talent in our own backyard that can be molded into MLS players. It may not happen overnight, but it's still there.

2. It applies to Canadian eligible academy players, not all academy players.

This is logical. No one should have a problem with this.

[J .]

I find it funny people bitch about the lack of Canadian talent then want our academy to develop players from another country

[Wull]

We don't need to attract a 17 year old from another country. There is more than enough talent in our own backyard that can be molded into MLS players. It may not happen overnight, but it's still there.

Oh come on! Even the best footballing nations and academy set ups bring in youngsters from out of the region/country

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Oh come on! Even the best footballing nations and academy set ups bring in youngsters from out of the region/country

yeah, seriously.
Macksam, youre telling me youd turn down Messi if we had the option to sign him at TFC because hes an argie?

[BeerBaron95]

yeah, seriously.
Macksam, youre telling me youd turn down Messi if we had the option to sign him at TFC because hes an argie?

I wouldnt

lol

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I wouldnt

lol

HAHA yeah god forbid

[J .]

Oh come on! Even the best footballing nations and academy set ups bring in youngsters from out of the region/country

Many are already established footballing teams and clubs. We're behind 100 years for some teams.

[Macksam]

yeah, seriously.
Macksam, youre telling me youd turn down Messi if we had the option to sign him at TFC because hes an argie?

No, just saying it's not necessary. Anyhow, like I've pointed out in other threads, I have no problem with foreigners in the academy. I would just have a problem with academy kids picking a different national team if they are born and raised here.

As for JDG 2, I wouldn't have a problem if he played for TFC. He honed a lot of his skills in the Netherlands and spent nearly half his life there, and if he chooses them, while it would be dissapointing, it is what it is.

Even though I'm the most vocal hater and basher of Owen Whoregreaves, I wouldn't mind us signing him as well. If he played well for TFC and grew the sport here, I would consider that making amends for his earlier mistake.

[Fushida]

Radzinki played with the North York Rockets of the Canadan Soccer Leauge, and played with the St. Catherine Wolves of the NASL. His major development was in Canada and he got noticed in CANADA.

Jackovic: Born to an ethnic Serb family in Croatia prior to the break-up of the former Yugoslavia, Jakovic was brought by his parents to Canada at the age of six following the outbreak of the ethnic warfare in Croatia in 1991. They settled in Etobicoke, part of metropolitan Toronto.

Jakovic took up association football in Canada. He was a four-year letterwinner at Scarlett Heights Academy, and was named team MVP as a junior and senior, captaining both indoor and outdoor teams. He played in the Canadian national youth program, and also for two-time Ontario Cup winner Woodbridge Strikers under Bob Graham.

That is straight from the Jakovics wikipedia. He was taught the game here buddy. And Klukowski was part of the youth teams in Canada and i Believed he moved here at the age of seven or something. And Pacheco was never going to the make the Portaguese team and has even said he wants to send his kids here to go to school, and plus every country poaches players. You fail to realize just because someone wasnt born in Canada doesnt mean they shouldnt play for the national team.

You serious? I have no idea how you reached that conclusion with my post.

JDG2 was taught the game in Europe when he went to OM at 10 and Feyenoord at 12. He's spent more than half his life out of Canada, never played for the Canadian national program. Not too different from the guys I mentioned, hence he shouldn't be obliged to play for the Canadian national team. What are YOU arguing exactly?

[jabbronies]

Armen Bedakian @ArmenBedakian · 24m


Jonathan De Guzman just said in an interview with Dutch TV he plans on finishing his career with Toronto FC. #TFC #MLS