JDG2 wants to play for TFC

[reggie]

i don't want him because he is not that good,not a dp level player,and it wouldn't be for another 4 or 5 years,why are we talking about this...

[razor787]

It's not that easy. International competitions in hockey, including the Olympics and World Junior Championships are governed by the IIHF. They have pretty strict rules on player eligibility.

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/c...f-eligibility/

Essentially, if a player acquires a new nationality, they have to prove that they have only played for that country for two consecutive years in non IIHF events nor played hockey games in the another country over that same time frame. He/She would also have to have an international transfer card showing that their former association has agreed to transfer them to the new association at least two years before they want to play in an IIHF event.

There are stricter rules for players that switch nationalities having already played for their current country. Time frames extend to 4 years and still require the signed International Transfer Card.

That latter point is a real pickle. If the player has a professional contract the current association can refuse to sign the transfer card. So, if Slovakia doesn't want Chara to play for Canada, they simply refuse to sign the transfer card.

FIFA rules on eligibility are much more lax. Which is likely why you see more players playing for countries other than those of their birth. Hockey players likely do not have a stronger sense of nationalism… simply put they are governed by a body that is very rigid about these matters.

Ah alright. I didn't realize it was so difficult for a player to switch like that. Why can't FIFA make things more difficult? Players should play for the country of their birth. You can pick and choose your clubs, you shouldn't be able to do that with your national team

[Oldtimer]

Ah alright. I didn't realize it was so difficult for a player to switch like that. Why can't FIFA make things more difficult? Players should play for the country of their birth. You can pick and choose your clubs, you shouldn't be able to do that with your national team

So what if a Canadian woman was vacationing in Cuba and went into early labour? If the child was born in Cuba, but apart from one week never lived in Cuba but grew up and developed into a star player in Canada, would you require him to play for Cuba? Citizenship is a complex issue.

[Kaz]

Ah alright. I didn't realize it was so difficult for a player to switch like that. Why can't FIFA make things more difficult? Players should play for the country of their birth. You can pick and choose your clubs, you shouldn't be able to do that with your national team

The rules are fairly difficult now.

The only major issue comes when nations like the Netherlands don't allow dual citizenship. I really would like to know if the Academies declare that to kids they recruit for other nations. I also don't understand the rules well enough. JDG2 played in the Netherlands, didn't get Citizenship until he was 20 really, did he need to get it.. that is the question, was he stuck, and it was the only option left? or did he have other options but thought so little of Canadian Citizenship that he gave it up freely.

It would mean a lot in my case to adjust my opinion of him.. from never wanting to see him have a Canadian flag near him, to just never wanting him playing for any tier 3 or higher Canadian team.

[Ajax TFC]

The only major issue comes when nations like the Netherlands don't allow dual citizenship. I really would like to know if the Academies declare that to kids they recruit for other nations. I also don't understand the rules well enough. JDG2 played in the Netherlands, didn't get Citizenship until he was 20 really, did he need to get it.. that is the question, was he stuck, and it was the only option left? or did he have other options but thought so little of Canadian Citizenship that he gave it up freely.

Most kids from other nations in the academies are from other EU countries, so there's no need to acquire Dutch citizenship. They also do allow dual citizenship, but have stricter criteria than other countries (for example, I'm a Dutch/Canadian dual, and I've never left North America in my life), and clearly he didn't qualify. His options were likely:
A) Become Dutch/EU citizen, dropping Canadian Citizenship
B) Remain a Canadian. This would make him count as a foreign player in many of the top leagues, making him a less attractive signing to top teams that may otherwise sign him.
C) Go to an academy in a country that is easier to get dual citizenship in. Problem is, a player from Canada might not have academies in all different countries wanting him to join, and the Feyenoord academy is one of the best in the world.

IMO he made decisions that gave his career the best possible chance. Besides, these days citizenships are more about work and social privileges than they are about what you are in your heart. Why would he need those things for Canada more than for the EU if he was going to spend the next 10-15 years working in the EU?

[ensco]

i don't want him because he is not that good,not a dp level player,and it wouldn't be for another 4 or 5 years,why are we talking about this...

I am not telling you what to think, but you do realize that he is starting for the Netherlands, right? (Even if he got his spot via injury, it's the fricking Netherlands)

I think any neutral would say his value as a footballer exceeds Michael Bradley, right this second.

I agree with your point about it being years away, but what the hell, nothing else to talk about.

[Kaz]

Most kids from other nations in the academies are from other EU countries, so there's no need to acquire Dutch citizenship. They also do allow dual citizenship, but have stricter criteria than other countries (for example, I'm a Dutch/Canadian dual, and I've never left North America in my life), and clearly he didn't qualify. His options were likely:
A) Become Dutch/EU citizen, dropping Canadian Citizenship
B) Remain a Canadian. This would make him count as a foreign player in many of the top leagues, making him a less attractive signing to top teams that may otherwise sign him.
C) Go to an academy in a country that is easier to get dual citizenship in. Problem is, a player from Canada might not have academies in all different countries wanting him to join, and the Feyenoord academy is one of the best in the world.

IMO he made decisions that gave his career the best possible chance. Besides, these days citizenships are more about work and social privileges than they are about what you are in your heart. Why would he need those things for Canada more than for the EU if he was going to spend the next 10-15 years working in the EU?

Ok this BS needs to stop.

The Dutch do not allow dual citizenship for immigrants with no Dutch Connection.

As such they should disclose that fact to both kids and parents when they sign up.. if not then what they are doing is disturbing. If kids go through the process hit 18 start the process and are told opps too bad, can't be Canadian and you can't play for your national team if you want to play in Europe now... that is very disturbing and changes my opinion of JDG2.

IF they do disclose that.. even though he could have looked at academies in Germany, England, Spain, France, etc all of which would have allowed him to keep his citizenship in Canada and still choose to go to the Netherlands... even after his brother went to Germany says just a few things. Either he wasn't good enough, he didn't care (in which case I don't care about him) or he and his parents made a bad decision.

I would hope it was the first and that the Academy withheld key information, and is guilty of poaching youth.

He made a decision to turn his back on his nation, a nation his parents choose, a nation his brother choose to play for (even though he went to Europe too).

That is where the problem is. The Netherlands (I'm sorry to say) has a history of being unfriendly to immigrants, and the nation and Canada aren't always on the most friendly terms, even if it is tongue and cheek like the beer war. If this is what Dutch Academies are doing, I have to wonder how many others the did this too.

[Pookie]

The rules are fairly difficult now.

It is true that they have changed but I wouldn't call them difficult relative to the rules in hockey. Essentially, you can play for any nation you like if you have citizenship in that country.

If you want to switch to one where your biological family is from or a place you have lived for 5 years or more, you need to appeal to FIFA who make the decision.

That's huge. Again in hockey it would be up to the the country's association as to whether they would let you go. So, the Russian Federation decides if it wants to let a star player leave to play for another country. It isn't likely to happen… almost ever. With FIFA, it is a committee decision.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...tutes2012e.pdf

The only major issue comes when nations like the Netherlands don't allow dual citizenship. I really would like to know if the Academies declare that to kids they recruit for other nations. I also don't understand the rules well enough. JDG2 played in the Netherlands, didn't get Citizenship until he was 20 really, did he need to get it.. that is the question, was he stuck, and it was the only option left? or did he have other options but thought so little of Canadian Citizenship that he gave it up freely.

… from what I've read and heard in his interviews he made a conscious decision to play in the Netherlands. He likely didn't qualify for dual citizenship so had to give the Canadian one to follow his heart. Lots of young folks (and old ones too) make decisions based on emotion. This was his. Who are we to question it?

As for the Academy angle you are going on, information on citizenship is clearly available from a variety of sources. It's a parent/player/agent responsibility to become informed and considering his brother's route, I'd say that information was likely in their hands. Playing for the Dutch was his desire. To play for the Dutch, he most likely had to give up the Canadian passport because he had no connection to their land.

Oh well. It affects me very little… wait… not at all.

[Ajax TFC]

Ok this BS needs to stop.

The Dutch do not allow dual citizenship for immigrants with no Dutch Connection.

As such they should disclose that fact to both kids and parents when they sign up.. if not then what they are doing is disturbing. If kids go through the process hit 18 start the process and are told opps too bad, can't be Canadian and you can't play for your national team if you want to play in Europe now... that is very disturbing and changes my opinion of JDG2.

I have no idea if the academies openly broadcast this fact or not. But that's the kid's family's job to do that kind of research. You don't randomly pick a EU country to play in on the assumption that you'll be able to get an EU citizenship there and keep your own. You look into what the requirements are first.

IF they do disclose that.. even though he could have looked at academies in Germany, England, Spain, France, etc all of which would have allowed him to keep his citizenship in Canada and still choose to go to the Netherlands... even after his brother went to Germany says just a few things. Either he wasn't good enough, he didn't care (in which case I don't care about him) or he and his parents made a bad decision.

OR maybe he chose based on where he had the best chance of developing into a pro who could go far. There aren't many academies that develop players better than Feyenoord. There are maybe those that produce better footballers based on scouting the best players and then claiming them as academy products, but in terms of player development, Feyenoord is one of the best. Now you expect him to go somewhere where he won't get the chance to develop to the same level, so that he can retain citizenship in a country that he wouldn't be working in for at least the next 20 years from that point.

The Netherlands (I'm sorry to say) has a history of being unfriendly to immigrants

Yes, it's true that many Dutch people are wary of what they perceive to be a threat to their culture.

and the nation and Canada aren't always on the most friendly terms, even if it is tongue and cheek like the beer war.

??? I am unaware of any political disagreement between the two countries. And the Dutch people love Canadians. They still send us tulips FFS

[Kaz]

It is true that they have changed but I wouldn't call them difficult relative to the rules in hockey. Essentially, you can play for any nation you like if you have citizenship in that country.

If you want to switch to one where your biological family is from or a place you have lived for 5 years or more, you need to appeal to FIFA who make the decision.

That's huge. Again in hockey it would be up to the the country's association as to whether they would let you go. So, the Russian Federation decides if it wants to let a star player leave to play for another country. It isn't likely to happen… almost ever. With FIFA, it is a committee decision.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...tutes2012e.pdf



… from what I've read and heard in his interviews he made a conscious decision to play in the Netherlands. He likely didn't qualify for dual citizenship so had to give the Canadian one to follow his heart. Lots of young folks (and old ones too) make decisions based on emotion. This was his. Who are we to question it?

As for the Academy angle you are going on, information on citizenship is clearly available from a variety of sources. It's a parent/player/agent responsibility to become informed and considering his brother's route, I'd say that information was likely in their hands. Playing for the Dutch was his desire. To play for the Dutch, he most likely had to give up the Canadian passport because he had no connection to their land.

Oh well. It affects me very little… wait… not at all.

Like I say I don't have enough information. Right now my opinion of JDG2 is as low as it can be.

Not allowing dual citizenship should be mentioned, particularly as I wasn't even aware there were nations that didn't. I'm actually surprised by the list of those that don't and how many are in Europe.

I don't want to put it on the Academy and you are right more research should have been done.. he was 12 though.. it's a curiosity. It saddens me how cheaply someone can give up their citizenship and then have the nerve to say they want to play in Canada at some point. I actively was seeking out a scenario where I could find some respect for him.. but I don't think it is there.

[Kaz]

??? I am unaware of any political disagreement between the two countries. And the Dutch people love Canadians. They still send us tulips FFS

That is totally my fault, I have a swiss cheese brain with names.. and I had over stimulated myself. Hans Island issue with the Danes not the Dutch.

European countries are too small..



For me nothing would cause me to give up my citizenship it is totally unforgivable to me, particularly when there are multiple nations that are better or as good as the Netherlands that he could have gone to play in. If he did so knowing that this was going to happen, as there was never a scenario he would be able to keep his citizenship, then he should never have a Canadian Flag on his kit for the rest of his life. He turned his back, he doesn't deserve to wear it. That is what pisses me off about him.