JDG2 wants to play for TFC

[DigzTFC!]

You asked for one nation, now don't up the standard. It only takes one example to prove the idea that a domestic
league is 100% necessary is a wrong one.

A handful of talented players declaring for Canada would have made enough of a difference to get Canada in.

We have to disagree on your first statement. A league(s) is/are essential to competing at the World Cup because it creates a sustainable player pool to source from year after year. We cannot depend on foreign clubs to develop our players because by in large they won't play for us. If that player production comes from a semi-pro league (ala NZ) or a professional one we still need consistent player production.

Julian Deguzman said playing for Canada almost ruined his european club career because its a harder sell for agents and clubs hate low ranking games and pointless games due fatigue and injury - plus travel. It also helps to soften the blow when players don't sign up for Canada because we have more depth.

I agree, the handful of players your refer to would be enough but what about in 4 years time? Where is the next round of players coming from?

[cmonyoureds]

I understand the venom towards JDG2, Hargreaves, *insert next name here*.
I really wish, however, we were as passionate about fixing the CSA - the cause - instead of crucifying the result - *insert names here*

Reading those Begovic comments, and the indication others feel the same way, is really a let down.
Could you imagine?

JDG2 "hey Asmir, what's up with Canada?"
Asmir "oh geez, don't even think about it, go with Holland"

Would that really be too far fetched to have happened?

[cmonyoureds]

We have to disagree on your first statement. A league(s) is/are essential to competing at the World Cup because it creates a sustainable player pool to source from year after year. We cannot depend on foreign clubs to develop our players because by in large they won't play for us. Julian Deguzman said playing for Canada almost ruined his european club career because its a harder sell for agents and clubs hate low ranking games and pointless games due fatigue and injury - plus travel. It also helps to soften the blow when players don't sign up for Canada because we have more depth.

I agree, the handful of players your refer to would be enough but what about in 4 years time? Where is the next round of players coming from?

It would have to be the TFC academy. The CSA develops as an exception, not the rule.

[DigzTFC!]

I hope so. I hope the MLS & NASL clubs can provide that player production and Sigma can keep it going. But I'd like to see that expanded. Very few players make it professionally. Expanded production is needed IMO. Maybe that's not the opinion of everyone.

[Jack]

While every little amateur soccer overlord in our country continues to be more concerned with being a "winning coach" than developing talent, we will continue to suck.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Of course there's also the whole issue of success, and that's not necessarily the chance of winning a trophy but just of appearing on a big stage or playing against big sides. If Canada regularly qualified for the World Cup, I suspect there would be far fewer instances of Canadians opting to represent other nations and in fact we might find tenuously-linked non-Canadians clamouring to represent Canada instead. In fact, when Canada qualified for the 1986 World Cup, Toronto Blizzard striker David Byrne - who was South African and consistently one of the top scorers in the NASL - expressed an interest to play for Canada in the World Cup. To his credit - and despite Canada struggling for goals at the time - Canadian manager Tony Waiters said that as Byrne hadn't been part of the effort to qualify, he wouldn't be part of the team going to Mexico. Ah, those were the days!

Chicken/Egg angle of "If we were better I'd play for us."

Who will improve the team? The ones who take it upon themselves and not blame who came before.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I understand the venom towards JDG2, Hargreaves, *insert next name here*.
I really wish, however, we were as passionate about fixing the CSA - the cause - instead of crucifying the result - *insert names here*

Reading those Begovic comments, and the indication others feel the same way, is really a let down.
Could you imagine?

JDG2 "hey Asmir, what's up with Canada?"
Asmir "oh geez, don't even think about it, go with Holland"

Would that really be too far fetched to have happened?

Passionate, how? Like talking about how the CSA sucks? People say that to no avail already. We can talk about the provinces trying to align and what we suspect the CSA's endgame is once that happens but until we have transparency we couldn't progress convo past rampant speculation.

This thread is already holding the CSA accountable so what do you want to see about fixing the game?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I hope so. I hope the MLS & NASL clubs can provide that player production and Sigma can keep it going. But I'd like to see that expanded. Very few players make it professionally. Expanded production is needed IMO. Maybe that's not the opinion of everyone.

The entire League One is made up of Academies. It was created in part to look at developing talent all in one place with no semi pro veterans peppered in the mix.

This League is a good thing for development but will not fill the role of a semi pro league at even the CSL level. (Not that it should)

[prizby]

It's so tough because my son plays at a reasonably high level.

We have family in Spain and Brazil, by 13-14, if he is actually at a really high level, and TFC academy isn't way ahead of where they are now, we could send him there.

If he came to me and said 'dad, should I play for Canada or Spain /Brazil?'

I can say right now that 'he should play for Canada' but really, it would probably be 'kiddo, go win the world cup'

I forbid you to answer this question if he ever asks you this question; if anything, please defer to 'ask prizby'

thanks

[prizby]

It annoys me that people can represent a country they've potentially never even been to, because one parent was born there, or something. Like I said before - national teams should be about more than just more mercenary trophy chasing, and trying to triangulate which "opportunity" gives you the best shot at the World Cup.

this happens in baskeball all the time in Europe with American's coming over...they represent a country like Georgia without having ever spent a day in the country; in return for citizenship, they suit up for that country, but they are using the citizenship more to prolong their european career (as they are not nba quality), so they don't count to a teams foreign player limit.

[Shakes McQueen]

Given the criteria you've laid out, JDG2 would still be eligible for Holland.

Yeah, I know. My "solution" wouldn't solve all issues like this, but it would certainly make more sense than the current system.

I suspect, in reality, FIFA like giving players as many "home country" options as possible, because it lets more players from smaller nations come and play for FIFA's big moneymaker countries like Spain or England.

[tfcleeds]

lol he was part of the team that spanked Spain…what a horrible decision he made not playing for canada haaa

No, he did make the right decision - for him, and his career. And fair enough. But by basically spitting in the face of the country of his birth, he should expect to be excoriated by soccer fans here. Which is why I hope he never signs for TFC.

[tfcleeds]

I absolutely agree that I wouldn't want him here because of attitude, but I wouldn't say he paved the way for others to declare elsewhere, that's mostly on the CSA and their continued incompetence over the years. For me It wasn't about the fact he declared for Netherlands, I'm sure he does feel more Dutch than Canadian, but it was the declaration " if Canada did good I would choose them " which is the wrong attitude, he should have choose one side, and It wouldn't bother me if he choose Netherlands if it was an honest decision.

You're right he wasn't the one to pave the way. That was Whoregreaves.

[tfcleeds]

I'm sorry, but this thread is really hitting a nerve with me. I just watched the USA beat Ghana in an exciting match - a USA team that has now been in 7 straight World Cups since we were in our last one. And while it's true that with their obvious advantages in terms of population and resources for player development that far exceed ours, should it really be the case that a country of some 35 million people can't make a bleeding tournament once in awhile? Yes, I get the argument that the CSA is less than useless - we all get that. But having turncoats like Whoregreaves, JDG2, Teal Bunbury, and Junior Hoilett not declaring for us certainly doesn't help get us to get to where we need to be, does it?

Look at Brazil. They don't even NEED Diego Costa. But look at the reaction he got in Salvador from the crowd. And that's BRAZIL. So why some people don't quite get why we're upset with these turncoats really baffles me. It really does.

[jabbronies]

I feel like the USSF has it's shit together. That's why players are not turning on their country. They believe in the system because the system has proven itself to be improving in every aspect of the sport.

The CSA is a fucking joke. Might as well be the Toronto City Council up there running the CSA it'd be the same thing. A bunch of fucking yahoo's who clearly don't know a shit about how to develop a football system in a country. Their coaching credentials are fucking sub par - their player development system is basically non-existent. Why would any player who has a chance to go and work with a real association give up the chance to do so.

Yes, playing for your country is something special, but when the governing body running your national program are incompetent and run the risk of you jeopardizing your lively hood, I say fuck 'em.

This is part of a players job. A part of their lively hood. Why allow a bunch of imbeciles to jeopardize what you as a player have worked so hard for.

Players in this country are not being developed to the level they are at thanks to the CSA - it' because of the natural skill and ability of that player and the few/rare coaches in the system who know what they are doing.

Our coaches go the US to get proper coaching credentials. No one comes here for anything.

It stings to see home born players leaving our country, but I blame the CSA for it. Who in their right mind would want to join with a lacklustre association like the CSA?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I feel like the USSF has it's shit together. That's why players are not turning on their country. They believe in the system because the system has proven itself to be improving in every aspect of the sport.

The CSA is a fucking joke. Might as well be the Toronto City Council up there running the CSA it'd be the same thing. A bunch of fucking yahoo's who clearly don't know a shit about how to develop a football system in a country. Their coaching credentials are fucking sub par - their player development system is basically non-existent. Why would any player who has a chance to go and work with a real association give up the chance to do so.

Yes, playing for your country is something special, but when the governing body running your national program are incompetent and run the risk of you jeopardizing your lively hood, I say fuck 'em.

This is part of a players job. A part of their lively hood. Why allow a bunch of imbeciles to jeopardize what you as a player have worked so hard for.

Players in this country are not being developed to the level they are at thanks to the CSA - it' because of the natural skill and ability of that player and the few/rare coaches in the system who know what they are doing.

Our coaches go the US to get proper coaching credentials. No one comes here for anything.

It stings to see home born players leaving our country, but I blame the CSA for it. Who in their right mind would want to join with a lacklustre association like the CSA?

It's been 3 campaigns I've heard this story and I think the issue has always been a lack of transparency. Promotion is something America does well, no doubt, but what do we know of CSA structure? People are forced to assume the worst (Apathy and incompetence instead of struggling for improvement through a commitment to an acknowledged and well known plan).

As a supporter I can enjoy the freedom to get behind anyone who plays for us and if they don't I hope they just play for a club only and not hurt us down the road playing for another nation.

[Fort York Redcoat]

For me It wasn't about the fact he declared for Netherlands, I'm sure he does feel more Dutch than Canadian, but it was the declaration " if Canada did good I would choose them " which is the wrong attitude, he should have choose one side

The former makes him an international opportunist, the latter, a coward.

[Phil]

Remember all those world cup qualifiers at BMO?

The only people to actually promote the words - WORLD CUP - were the Voyageurs. CSA has no clue on how to market a game, let alone properly run a team. Speaks volumes to me about the state of that organization.

[ensco]

We are screwed by it, but there have always been guys like JDG2 in world football, Argentines who play for Italy, Costa going to Spain. Even the Irish playing in England mostly had some real connection to Ireland (I know there were one or two exceptions).

The USA actually has a really weird thing going on - all these kids of servicemen that really have no connection to the USA. The cap on USA football is the lack of American military bases in Argentina and Brazil!

[Fushida]

I'm sorry, but this thread is really hitting a nerve with me. I just watched the USA beat Ghana in an exciting match - a USA team that has now been in 7 straight World Cups since we were in our last one. And while it's true that with their obvious advantages in terms of population and resources for player development that far exceed ours, should it really be the case that a country of some 35 million people can't make a bleeding tournament once in awhile? Yes, I get the argument that the CSA is less than useless - we all get that. But having turncoats like Whoregreaves, JDG2, Teal Bunbury, and Junior Hoilett not declaring for us certainly doesn't help get us to get to where we need to be, does it?

Look at Brazil. They don't even NEED Diego Costa. But look at the reaction he got in Salvador from the crowd. And that's BRAZIL. So why some people don't quite get why we're upset with these turncoats really baffles me. It really does.

I don't get it. Why does country of birth carry more weight than the country that has contributed more to your development? I agree wholeheartedly with the Hargreaves and Begovic hate because they spent a vast amount of time here, took our resources from the youth sides, then decided to scram to other nations when the going got better for them. But JDG2 for example, the kid developed in Holland, spent more than half of his life there, he owes what he is in terms of career to Feyenoord and the system over there. What did Canada do for him in terms of soccer? He didn't fucking renounce his Canadian citizenship, but we contributed much less than the Dutch did to his game. Fair game to him IMO, let him choose who he wants to represent. I'm not a fan of any of these guys because my heart feels the same as you, but logically speaking it just makes sense for them.

[jabbronies]

What are peoples take on USMNT player Jermaine Jones

The guy was born in germany, spent most his life in germany, but plays for USMNT?

[jabbronies]

I don't get it. Why does country of birth carry more weight than the country that has contributed more to your development? I agree wholeheartedly with the Hargreaves and Begovic hate because they spent a vast amount of time here, took our resources from the youth sides, then decided to scram to other nations when the going got better for them. But JDG2 for example, the kid developed in Holland, spent more than half of his life there, he owes what he is in terms of career to Feyenoord and the system over there. What did Canada do for him in terms of soccer? He didn't fucking renounce his Canadian citizenship, but we contributed much less than the Dutch did to his game. Fair game to him IMO, let him choose who he wants to represent. I'm not a fan of any of these guys because my heart feels the same as you, but logically speaking it just makes sense for them.

according to this article he would have had to and that is where a large part of the hate comes into play:
http://www.goltv.ca/blog/lee_godfrey_soccer_blog/272/

[Suds]

Could care less where he's played internationally.

This is is a club team. If he's value for money at the time and helps us win games the sign him up.

[Kaz]

What are peoples take on USMNT player Jermaine Jones

The guy was born in germany, spent most his life in germany, but plays for USMNT?

That one is a little more sticky as he already was an American, lived in the US, and moved to Germany with his Mother (whom I'm assuming is German) after a divorce.

It is a choice of opportunity. He was raised (his formative years) in Germany, played in Germany, played for Germany (non-competitively) and wanted to play for Germany, waited until he was 26-27 to make the call to play for the US after attempting to break the German National Team.

The US was his second choice, a nation he has direct and born legal standing in, and only after he tried to play for the nation he lived and spent his formative years and playing career in.


JDG2 went to play in Netherlands to get better, has no born legal standing in the nation, made him self available at his first chance before he had fully developed, without ever really attempting to play for the nation of his birth, plays over seas. And then had the nerve to call Toronto his Home, and wanting to play for a Canadian team for his retirement, which would put a maple leaf on his kit... a Emblem he all but spit on.

So I have no issue with Jermaine Jones at 26-27 deciding to play for the nation of his fathers birth after failing to be able to crack the National team he calls home.

Teal Bunberry as much as it annoys me really spent no time in Canada and had almost no connection to Canada and so it is understandable.

JDG2 parents are here, his brother plays for the national team and he in his ego decided to play for Netherlands as fast as he could without attempting to play for Canada at Youth or in a National Friendly.

[Kaz]

I don't get it. Why does country of birth carry more weight than the country that has contributed more to your development? I agree wholeheartedly with the Hargreaves and Begovic hate because they spent a vast amount of time here, took our resources from the youth sides, then decided to scram to other nations when the going got better for them. But JDG2 for example, the kid developed in Holland, spent more than half of his life there, he owes what he is in terms of career to Feyenoord and the system over there. What did Canada do for him in terms of soccer? He didn't fucking renounce his Canadian citizenship, but we contributed much less than the Dutch did to his game. Fair game to him IMO, let him choose who he wants to represent. I'm not a fan of any of these guys because my heart feels the same as you, but logically speaking it just makes sense for them.

He choose to go to Netherlands to develop more, and then turned his back on Canada... His brother plays for Canada, his family lives in Canada. He went because he wanted to play football.. the fact he feels no national connection and is purely a selfish brat his is right.. and it's my right to tell him to get the fuck out, he doesn't deserve the maple leaf.


Oh and I did some checking.

In most cases you will have to

give up any other nationalities. However, you will not have to give up your other nationality if:

• the country that you come from does not allow you to;
  
• you were born and currently live in the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao or St Maarten;
  
• you are married to a Dutch national;
  
• you are a refugee and live in the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao or St Maarten.

JDG2 is not a Canadian.. and he is not good enough to waste an international slot on... and never will be.

[brad]

What are peoples take on USMNT player Jermaine Jones

The guy was born in germany, spent most his life in germany, but plays for USMNT?

Or Thomas Radzinski - who was born in Poland, learned the game in Poland and Germany, and came to Canada when he was 17

[Phil]

Could care less where he's played internationally.

This is is a club team. If he's value for money at the time and helps us win games the sign him up.

I don't disagree.

Thing is, there is a long way between a player saying he wants to play for a team and a GM saying he wants a player.

[DigzTFC!]

You guys are oversimplifying it. Clubs take into account more than player abilities for marquee players like cultural fit, locker room fit, playing style, jersey revenue, impact on ticket revenue etc.

Do you really think MLSE would bring in a player after spending $100 million on players in a rebranding exercise that would tick off at least 20% of the fanbase. That's also not including the $160 million going towards upgrading and expanding the stadium....really it makes no sense from MLSEs standpoint. They can find a player of his caliber without the baggage.

[Suds]

You guys are oversimplifying it. Clubs take into account more than player abilities for marquee players like cultural fit, locker room fit, playing style, jersey revenue, impact on ticket revenue etc.

Do you really think MLSE would bring in a player after spending $100 million on players in a rebranding exercise that would tick off at least 20% of the fanbase. That's also not including the $160 million going towards upgrading and expanding the stadium....really it makes no sense from MLSEs standpoint. They can find a player of his caliber without the baggage.

Sure, I am over simplifying it.

They take it all into account. Players are brought in to win and turn a profit and anything that can impact the team's ability to make that profit will be considered. My point is, I do not care personally. But I'm just one customer. If they felt the overriding sentiment would be very negative bringing in a player then they may choose to pass. There's always another player.

Anyway, between now and the tail end of JDG2's career is a lifetime in football. It may not even be an option for him or the club at the time.

[C.Ronaldo]

JDG seems to speak pretty good freaky deaky dutch

But it seems he was pretty honest in saying he would like to retire at TFC.
(warning, this video fails to mention is Canadian born)