Can our FO learn from D.C. United? Supporter treatment...

[FluSH]

From previous experience at RFK, and from watching the DC vs LA Game this is what I see:

1. They allow 1-2 supporters to organize flags / tifo / choreos on the pitch during the game!!! These dudes are running around getting the set-ups ready.

2. They allow the SG's a heck of alot more time to set-up their rail banners. Last time, we were stopped by some guy in a suit named "Tyler" with 4-5 cops with him for approx 10mins before we could bring "The Fortress" banner inside.

3. They allow the supporters to ignite their own smoke bombs!! (I believe this is done by the dudes who also set-up the flags on the pitch)

4. They have given the supporters full control of their ticket seating in their area! That's right they don't have to deal with scalper seats in the South end.

I can see why RFK is "Home of the 12th man" We should be jealous... anything more to add DC supporters?

[Roogsy]

#4 is the biggest on my list.

#3 would be really nice.

[ilikemusic]

Of coure our FO could. They real question is will they.

Probably not.

[Mrs. Workie]

From previous experience at RFK, and from watching the DC vs LA Game this is what I see:

1. They allow 1-2 supporters to organize flags / tifo / choreos on the pitch during the game!!! These dudes are running around getting the set-ups ready.

2. They allow the SG's a heck of alot more time to set-up their rail banners. Last time, we were stopped by some guy in a suit named "Tyler" with 4-5 cops with him for approx 10mins before we could bring "The Fortress" banner inside.

3. They allow the supporters to ignite their own smoke bombs!! (I believe this is done by the dudes who also set-up the flags on the pitch)

4. They have given the supporters full control of their ticket seating in their area! That's right they don't have to deal with scalper seats in the South end.

I can see why RFK is "Home of the 12th man" We should be jealous... anything more to add DC supporters?

Yes, in so many ways, especially #4

[ilikemusic]

Until they feel the need to do those things to sell tickets nothing will change.

[adampz]

In my opinion, we really can learn from DC supporters, i was just thinking the same thing flush, look at all the flags and banners they have, also im very fond of the smoke bombs. I think the club has to let the supporter groups take control because they dont have the fan support from familys and people who just come to watch the game. Once the casual fans dont make as big of a presence at BMO, TFC is going to have to give the supporter groups more leeway. For all of you that have seen football factories - the balkans. Look at what happened to Dinamo Zagreb, most of their revenues comes from their firm, so the firm has a vast amount of power compared to other firms through out europe.

[Roogsy]

Too much Football Factories for you Adam...that will never happen here and therefore we will never have that kind of power. It should never be that way anyways. Who wants a stadium filled only at one end?

But there CAN be a good compromise to make sure the atmosphere is the best in the league. At the moment...I don't think we can say it is.

If DC United had a stadium like ours...not only would they fill it like we do, but it would be clear the atmosphere is the best in the league. They had entire sections of THOUSANDS that were involved. We have a south stand where a few hundred (IF THAT!) create the atmosphere for the entire stands. And the feeling I get is that there is beginning to be a little resentment. Some are growing tired of carrying the whole section while others stand with their arms crossed.

[Torcida]

The best part about DCU is that you can have flag poles anywhere in the stadium but in BMO it's restricted to 15% of supporters, then they use the footage of those 15% to sell all-star game tickets etc.

[werewolf]

as long as the stadium keeps selling out with rising ticket prices, and beer keeps getting sold, why would the FO want to do this?

[FluSH]

So the question is how to tackle #4 with our high number of Season Ticket Holders?

Well...

If hypothetically speaking I was in the family section screaming, wavign a flag, and standing up for the full game would I not get kicked out?

Why is it that we cannot do the same? If we see a family in the South End, or a group of scalped tickets.. why can we not complain and get them kicked out?

Wasn't 112 supposed to be completely reserved for RPB's when we first started this? Do we not have the right to know who is sitting in our section... and why they bought tickets there if they are not supporters but rather scalpers?

What will it take for us to take control of the our sections? More altercations with scalpers outside BMO Field??!

[FluSH]

as long as the stadium keeps selling out with rising ticket prices, and beer keeps getting sold, why would the FO want to do this?

So in other words... they don;t give a shit about us supporters.

[olegunnar]

What can the supporters groups learn from the DCU supporters groups?

I think it's a vaild question to ask. Sure our FO isn't as accomadating, but that doesn't absolve us as supporters of all the responsibility.

exhibit A...DC has a capo on a podium. let's see if that would fly with supporters here. doubt it.

[FluSH]

What can the supporters groups learn from the DCU supporters groups?

I think it's a vaild question to ask. Sure our FO isn't as accomadating, but that doesn't absolve us as supporters of all the responsibility.

exhibit A...DC has a capo on a podium. let's see if that would fly with supporters here. doubt it.

...and why do you say that? where would the podium go exactly? Have you not been to an away game where we have only ONE capo?

DC supporters also have a fence between their supporter groups... so it has nothign to do with carebear unison.

[RedRum]

MLSE is just too stupid to do this. I've noticed a small but steady decline in vocal support/atmosphere over time. When the supporters stop supporting with the tenacity we have shown, it will only be a matter time until TFC will draw 10k a game. This is not an "egotystical" stance, just the plain and simple truth.

MLSE can ensure the long-term health of the francise by simply negotiating with the city to build a north stand, then move all the supporters groups over there with DC type rules.

Can you imagine how loud we would be if every RPB and u-sector member could migrate to one place and stand with the NEE to our right?

Like I said though they are too dumb and will run the team into the ground by not accomodating the supporters the way they should.

[olegunnar]

...and why do you say that? where would the podium go exactly? Have you not been to an away game where we have only ONE capo?

DC supporters also have a fence between their supporter groups... so it has nothign to do with carebear unison.

Because I think "we" are in a better position to ask for things from the FO when "we" have our shit together.
While we're still bickering and basically a bunch disjointed and unorganized drunks...we're not going to get anything.

Organization and unity would better our "bargaining" pisition infinately.
Now anytime something happens all that's needed is a mlsintoronto post and half the group bows down and gives up

[FluSH]

MLSE is just too stupid to do this. I've noticed a small but steady decline in vocal support/atmosphere over time. When the supporters stop supporting with the tenacity we have shown, it will only be a matter time until TFC will draw 10k a game. This is not an "egotystical" stance, just the plain and simple truth.

MLSE can ensure the long-term health of the francise by simply negotiating with the city to build a north stand, then move all the supporters groups over there with DC type rules.

Can you imagine how loud we would be if every RPB and u-sector member could migrate to one place and stand with the NEE to our right?

Like I said though they are too dumb and will run the team into the ground by not accomodating the supporters the way they should.

You know what... I agree with you 100% Migration to the North would be but a dream come true as long as we had FULL control of our seating... and we knew and allowed who was there.

This is why I love away games sooo much... We have control of who is with us... and 99% it is supporters.

[FluSH]

Because I think "we" are in a better position to ask for things from the FO when "we" have our shit together.
While we're still bickering and basically a bunch disjointed and unorganized drunks...we're not going to get anything.

Organization and unity would better our "bargaining" pisition infinately.
Now anytime something happens all that's needed is a mlsintoronto post and half the group bows down and gives up

What do you mean by "we" have our shit together?!?! This is as vague as anyone can get?

[kelzag]

So the question is how to tackle #4 with our high number of Season Ticket Holders?

Well...

If hypothetically speaking I was in the family section screaming, wavign a flag, and standing up for the full game would I not get kicked out?

Why is it that we cannot do the same? If we see a family in the South End, or a group of scalped tickets.. why can we not complain and get them kicked out?

Yes! Yes! Yes! You are 100% correct FluSH. I can't tell you the number of times we've had altercations in 107 because we try to wake the dead by singing/ chanting, or if (God forbid) we try to stand. My tickets are the 2nd most expensive and I'd give them up in a heartbeat to be in a supporters section.

[BC101]

So in other words... they don;t give a shit about us supporters.

LOL i think you should not expect anything else from Werewolf he IS dating one of the BMO staff ofcourse he'd defend their position LOL.

[olegunnar]

What do you mean by "we" have our shit together?!?! This is as vague as anyone can get?

Things like timed chants..do them or not
Capo ( i know there's a capo on road trips but that's irrelevant, we're talking about BMO games)...there's a big..dont' boss me crowd here
Drinking...there's a lot of people that get too drunk and are useless supporters and there's also the crowd that think's drinking and eating happen after the match.
Drumming (when and by whom)...there's people that think it's not necessary, there's people that critic it, there's people that love it.

All issues to which there isn't 100% support.

If the group can't get it's own house in order why would the FO give us control of part of theirs.

That's what I mean.

I'm not saying your points aren't valid, I think they are. I'm saying there's a better chance of success if we can get on the same page. We'd be more powerful and influential.

[werewolf]

defend?!?! I was saying exactly that, why would they give up control to us? What incentive is there to give us more power when they sell-out the stadium and make a bank off concessions?

[rocker]

have you guys asked TFC directly about #4?
obviously you can't do this with current season ticket holders. It would only work as season tickets become available, which is currently unlikely (how many were available at the reorganization last year?). It's not like you can take season tickets from current holders, but maybe over 5 years you could slowly change it.
I mean, there might be guys in 112-113 who are not the greatest supporters, but are not RPB card carrying members, and who you'll never get the season tickets from.

[BC101]

defend?!?! I was saying exactly that, why would they give up control to us? What incentive is there to give us more power when they sell-out the stadium and make a bank off concessions?

Because if they dont' the famous TFC Atmosphere will die.. and if the team continues on the downward spiral the numbers will start dropping. Just letting us have control of the south end will not be a big deal they'll still get their beer and food sales and the scalpers can just sell their seats for other areas of the stadium.

[FluSH]

With all do respect gunner here is my response:

Things like timed chants..do them or not

-We had one timed chant last year and it worked great... trying new things here and there are nothing to worry about, and certainly not something we can learn from anyone else (i.e. DC supporters)

Capo ( i know there's a capo on road trips but that's irrelevant, we're talking about BMO games)...there's a big..dont' boss me crowd here

The big don't boss me crowd is only online and the reason why I brought the "away games" is because it shows that during game day we drop our differances... and when I say we, I mean the SG's. It's the non-supporters or the people who instigate the supporters who are the problem (didn't Usec have a problem with the top of 113 throwing pennies at them?) and this is why I say we need full control of our sections... and we can't learn that from DC supporters.

Drinking...there's a lot of people that get too drunk and are useless supporters and there's also the crowd that think's drinking and eating happen after the match.

Once agian #4 will resolve this.

Drumming (when and by whom)...there's people that think it's not necessary, there's people that critic it, there's people that love it.

This is hardly an issue... more like a preference for some... we are talking about drumming here???? I mean to say that we need to get our shit together and include drumming as part of getting our shit together before we approach our FO is a bit off the wall.

All issues to which there isn't 100% support.

again, this is why we have a democracy here... and go to polls or votes on issues... However a concensus accross the board is only ideological... the only concensus that exists is that we are all for the team... and that's what matters. This is why I mentioned that DC supporters have a FENCE between each other... I guess if we learn from them we will see a FENCE between 112 / 113

[FluSH]

have you guys asked TFC directly about #4?
obviously you can't do this with current season ticket holders. It would only work as season tickets become available, which is currently unlikely (how many were available at the reorganization last year?). It's not like you can take season tickets from current holders, but maybe over 5 years you could slowly change it.
I mean, there might be guys in 112-113 who are not the greatest supporters, but are not RPB card carrying members, and who you'll never get the season tickets from.

We don't have 5 years... my question still stands. I am sure if you were a season ticket holder in the family section and you acted like a supporter you would be kicked out... can we not do the same? Besides I was under the impression that TFC FO promised 112 to us... why are there scalper seats in 112 then?!

[Mikey]

I think the club has to let the supporter groups take control because they dont have the fan support from familys and people who just come to watch the game. Once the casual fans dont make as big of a presence at BMO, TFC is going to have to give the supporter groups more leeway. Look what happened to Dinamo Zagreb, most of their revenues comes from their firm, so the firm has a vast amount of power compared to other firms through out europe.

MLSE could announce an "official TFC supporters club" anytime they want. They have 16,000 season ticket members that they can include a supporters club membership with straight away.

Discussions with supporters groups would look very different if the main vote on issues was with the official supporters group, not split between infighting small supporters groups. Not saying it will happen at the end of this season or anything... it's just something I've seen happen at another footie club.

Talk of controlling who comes into a section, especially if that "non-desirable" supporter is also a STH may be a bit naive.

[FluSH]

Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

[BC101]

Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

AMEN BROTHER!

[rocker]

Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

I just don't understand what "control" means in real practical terms.

Are current holders who are having kids and new jobs giving up their season's tickets? Who are they giving them up to?

My comment about 5 years is that I don't see "undesirable" fans giving up control of their season tickets to a group. Certainly RPBs can already give their tickets to their friends if they want to continue things. If there's some soccer mom who wants to hold on to her seats, no group is gonna be allowed to come and take them away from her.

the cat is out of the bag -- if this plan had been put in place from day 1 of the franchise, you'd have an effective plan. In the future, perhaps the club can identify "empty" seats and cede them to the group, but that'll take 5 years because I don't see people giving up control at this late date.
You can't just call up every season ticketholder in the south end and say "sorry guys, we're taking all your seats and distributing them according to the Red Patch Boys dictates."
Ceding control to the RPB is a good idea but it's too late to make a massive difference.....

[Roogsy]

Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

Planning on quitting in 5 years Flushie? LOL!