...and it's only December.Originally Posted by MartinUtd
...and it's only December.
what a shitshow
wow...what a crazy turn of events today. It is really unfortunate that this has taken place.
It is not uncommon for a pro player who is out of season to request permission to train with a club that is in season. This happens with some regularity.
The issue, in this case, simply comes down to whether permission was granted. For a whole slew of reasons (respecting the club you are contracted to as the #1 reason but also for liability reasons) a player with a contract absolutely must get that permission before he steps onto the training pitch for another club. If it is a formal trial, then there would be some sort of formal trial period agreement in place.
Having said that, I am quite sure that players will occasionally train with a club without explicit permission from their club while under contract. It is risky to do so but I am sure it happens. I know that we were approached by some Canadian players who are under contract overseas to attend some MFC sessions this summer because they were off for the summer and wanted to stay sharp. We declined because we don't want to take any chances.
I can't see Celtic offering enough money to MLS/TFC to buy him outright. Celtic isn't exactly flush with cash that they can splash around big dollars for 32 year old Canadian internationals. I would think MLS would want good money for him. The Kenny Cooper saga of a couple of years ago comes to mind, where MLS decided Cooper was worth more to the league than they would get for selling him and opted to keep him around against his will.
I also don't see TFC being willing to agree to a loan deal (what good would it do TFC? They need to win this year. You don't want a guy coming back in July).
I've been critical of TFC at times in the past but I've got to say that I feel for Paul, Earl, Jim et al. They did not need this drama, especially during the Christmas period, when operations would normally tend to slow down a bit. The organization has more than enough on its plate. I honestly hope this will end up being a case of major miscommunication because if DeRo really went to Glasgow without permission, it would be a very disrespectful thing to do and if he doesn't have respect for the club, you have to reconsider keeping him around.
this was a really bad day to go back to work, just finished reading this now, haven't even started on the other big thread.
craziness, I guess I'll have to wait for official news to confirm any of the inferences of blame that are being gently thrown out here.
one thing I'll say though, for all those who've argued that people are being impatient, and it's fine that it's taking this long for a new gm/coach to be named, it's ok if it takes a while as long as they get the right person, do you still feel that way?
If we actually had someone in charge with full authority to negotiate with de ro and make decisions, I'm guessing it wouldn't have gone down like this. This has obviously been going on for a long time, but it's over 3 months now since de ro started putting the pressure opn with his cheque signing, and the situation's just been allowed to drift along with no resolution. is anyone surprised that it's now blowing up to the point where either the club is lying, or de ro's lying, but either way things have gone to shit? I'm not.
another interesting possible angle to this (I have absolutely no inside sources, I'm just putting 2 and 2 together, more than likely I am wrong but...) remember klinsmann's sportsnet interview? when he was talking about how mls players need to learn what it's like to be a real professional, playing 10 or 11 months a year, to be able to really develop?
and all of a sudden, it's now that dero is trialling overseas with talk of a loan? intersting coincidence no?
I'm not so sure having a manager would have resulted in a different outcome.
It could very well be that TFC do not see a future with DeRo in it. The transfer window becomes an opportunity to get returns (allocation money) and since that window has a fixed date, how would a new manager play his cards any differently?
Age is a factor for him. Skills decline. He wants them to pony up cash and possibly term. It would be a stupid... fucking stupid... decision to hand him a raise and a DP slot when you know the hands of time will impact him over the duration of his contract.
In much the same way that people don't want to touch Angel with his DP salary, that will be DeRo at some point in the future. Now whether that point comes in April 2011 or well into 2014, who knows. But we do know that when clubs put big money into contracts for aging players, it almost never ends good (see, Leafs - Unrestricted Free Agent Signings)
Maybe a real manager would have told him that by now instead of the way MLSE seem to be stringing him along, talking about renegotiating, saying they'll talk to him and just generally putting it off.
^ who's to say they haven't told him that?
I mean, why would he want to go to Scotland if he thinks he's got a shot at a DP slot and salary with 7 digits in it?
Then why don't they say that? (we're talking about this in two threads now, by the way) Why did Anselmi say they were willing to renegotiate right after the cheque signing? Is Anselmi saying one thing in private and another in public? Is this part of his "learning" how to run a team?
TFC has never been very open or communicative. Maybe they don't have to be, sure, but it will always lead to this kind of mess.
Yep.
Face saving on both parties is an objective in any negotiation.
I honestly think they understand each other's "win" and recognize that they aren't in the same ball park.
There is no other reason for DeRo to consider a move to Scotland if there was an eventual solution that could work for both parties.
ripping up the contract is the last thing TFC should do. On the upside, it raises De Rosario's profile, more clubs may come sniffing around, meaning a bigger transfer fee or battle for his signature. Also this whole saga raises the profile of the club, living in the UK I can say a lot of people have never heard of Toronto FC until this saga. Every cloud has a silver lining and all that?
I honestly believe that TFC continues to function fairly smoothly. I think Paul, Earl, Jimmy, etc.... have all the authority to do what is necessary to get the club ready for next season and they have Jurgen and his company consulting with them.
Dont be surprised if there are some player announcements when the transfer window opens next week. The fact that there are no rumours about incoming players means that TFC's head office is doing a great job of controlling the flow of information. That alone is a huge improvement over the MoJo era.
Anyone who thinks that TFC would be going into (arguably) its most important year not having done anything at all these past few month would be wrong.
Would it be better if a head coach were in place and a permanent GM were named? Sure. But that doesn't mean work isn't being done.
My read on the situation is that negotiating with DeRo on a new contract is probably not TFC's highest priority. Dwayne has a contract and he is well paid by MLS standards. It takes two parties to renegotiate a deal. Maybe Jurgen, Earl, Jim, etc... believe they need to be focusing their time and effort on other priorities.
As I stated before, I just hope there is a massive miscommunication here, whereby Dwayne thought he had permission to showcase himself to other clubs.
Because he KNOWS he doesn't have a hope in hell of getting his million bucks a year.
We haven't seen any evidence of anyone willing to pay him those dollars, now or ever.
I disagree. Regardless of what is going on with the trial issue, DeRo's camp was clear in both articles that DeRo has requested to reopen negotiations and TFC has not responded yay or nay. I wouldn't call that a "priority".
Whether or not TFC decide to renegotiate or to pick up the option on his contract, you'd think for your top goal scorer you'd tell them your decision either way. They have not done that. Is that how a professional team treats it's best player?
I agree Roogsy but sometimes no answer is the answer.
Sounds like TFC for whatever reason don;t want to give DeRo more money. Not sure if that is the right or wrong decision and time will tell.
Roogsy, what do you want for De Rosario?
What is it that you're fighting for, DP Status for him?
Furthermore, what does HE want?
I can't wait to hear what happens in 5 years when De Rosario is retired. Will you fight this hard for another player?
I don't get how one man can exemplify another player, the way you seemingly try to do. De Rosario can defend himself.
It's called being a paid shilll.
What proof do you have of this oh ye of "evidence" brigade? Make an assertion, back it up.
I asked him, no need to hijack the questions.
I just want to know what your angle is, why you try so hard to stick up for one guy?
I have unconfirmed reports.
Agreed. It was an honest answer though.
Continue....
There are a whole lot of questions here...not sure which one to answer.
What do I want for DeRo? At this point I'd be happy if Toronto let him go play elsewhere. The relationship is damaged. There is no trust on either side.
What am I fighting for? Acknowledgment by the supporters of what DeRo brings to this team as opposed to concentrating on non-football stuff.
What does he want? He's told us over and over, this is no secret.
Can DeRo defend himself? Well, since he has his hands full getting ready for a new season and trying to sort out his contract situation, I doubt he can handle all these unfounded accusations and dismissals of his accomplishments. So that's what I do and if someone did the same to another player on TFC with the same accomplishments, I would take the same position.
Shouldn't you be held to he same standard that you demand of others? Again...what proof do you have that I have a monetary interest in DeRo's career?
Pot, meet kettle.
Regardless, answer Jimmy's question. sorry to hijack.
Bullshit Billy. No answer is never an answer. That's disrespectful to anyone. A player. A family member. A friend. A client. A colleague. Whatever.
You have it backwards. I never demanded anything until you started making demands first. Since you are the one that set the standard, you have to meet the burden first. So please....provide it and stop the avoidance.
No answer is a BS answer if you are respectful of each other.
But if you don't care....
I have never rec'd a call from HR or hiring depts when I haven't gotten a job. Officially maybe I am still in contention..lol
Ever done reno's on your home? If a contractor comes to you and says "this will cost $10,000 more" do you simply not respond to him?
There is no implied relationship when applying for a job. There is when there is a contract.
Agreed with all your points. in regards to you and Chevy - There is no real reason that we on this board should be arguing with one another.
I think that many dismiss his accomplishments too easily but I also understand that maybe it's better for TFC to let him go.
Last edited by billyfly; 12-28-2010 at 06:47 PM.
My job reference is more to show "lack of respect" that most probably exists right now b/t DeRo and TFC FO.
Your Reno/contractor example also points to my earlier reference that unless I said "yes", the contractor should not assume I want pink walls.
I just wish TFC was more in control of this situation. It does look like now they will definitely have to deal DeRo, probably to San Jose and probably for nothing. Did it have to be that way? Back when the cheque signing incident happened was it handled well by anyone? DeRo apologized and Anselmi said, publicly, they'd negotiate - of course, why was HE saying anything, shouldn't it have been up to the GM? Perhaps then behind closed doors TFC made a decision about DeRo's future and told him, or didn't tell him hoping he'd get the hint or something, but it dragged on.
So, season five and TFC will start from scratch again.
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