Worth of MLS cup compared with position after regular season

[LesH]

For me the MLS cup is worth shit compared to the position of the team after the regular MLS season ended.

The best proof is:
Just look at the MLS cup winners lately and look at their final positions in the standings righ before the playoffs begun.

So for me the IMO stupidly named "supporter's shield" awarded to the best team over the regular season shows the real value of a team, after all that takes in consideration all the results after 30 games (will be 34 games in 2011 when we'll have 18 teams) and not just in 4 games... the playoffs, when the temporary form of a team, tiredness of the whole roster and just plain luck worth very heavy in the balance of things.

Of course this subject was much discussed here, and people agree that those born in European football culture can't grasp the logic of playoffs after a regular season, and those born in North American culture can't grasp the logic of having a champion just after a regular season, without any playoffs.

I'm European living in North America, so this explains all.
For me the best team after the regular season should be crowned MLS champion, and then just run a freaking MLS cup after the season, instead of the playoffs, and crown the winner with the MLS cup. Period!

But let's try here a quick little off season poll about this, I'm really curious about your point of view.

By being first I understand both east and west standings combined, so absolute first, lol...

[prizby]

umm whats the question?

[Razcle]

For me, the supporters shield is just a nice way of saying you did well during the regular season. I have lived in Canada since birth following NA sports my whole life. If you can't win when the stakes are highest.....F-off..... its all about winning the final game of the season.

However that said. If they went to a European style top of the table is the league championship I would support that. This is not the case we currently see though.

[prizby]

problem with going european is only a couple thousand fans in every city would understand it...i think single table in itself would hurt at the ticket booth...that being said, maybe something to the style of the Mexican league could work one day

[Yohan]

So for me the IMO stupidly named "supporter's shield" awarded to the best team over the regular season shows the real value of a team.

clearly you don't know the traditions of supporter's shield and a bit ignorant of MLS history to make comments like this

[LesH]

I'm thinking you guys should not use double standards regarding this problem about MLS and the best European championships for example.

I mean if you say that the MLS cup worth more than being at the top of the standings, than for you also winning the cup is England, Spain, Italy, France, Germany etc. should worth more than being the champion in those countries.

Though I admit you can't compare them 1 in 1, beacuse in all European federations all the teams, includung all the lover levels participate in the Cup competitions (that's why it's a very long road to the upper stages for some inferior category teams), while in MLS just some MLS teams can participate in the Cup.

[LesH]

clearly you don't know the traditions of supporter's shield and a bit ignorant of MLS history to make comments like this

I admit I do not care about MLS history because I would never ever cared about MLS if there never was a TFC. Why when it's a ton of great championships to watch?
But since there exists a TFC I watched all the TFC games I could, and besides that nothing else from MLS. just the Cup final this year and last year. (This year only because it was played in Toronto!!!)

What's wrong in this?
I know there are many like me even in this forum.

[Yohan]

I admit I do not care about MLS history and I would never ever cared about MLS if there never was a TFC.

What's wrong in this?
I know there are many like me even in this forum.

if you don't care about MLS history, that's fine. but making comments about something you don't know about smacks of ignorance.

i'm not trying to be a prick, but just because MLS is not as European leagues or not as steep in history as other leagues, it doesn't mean MLS doesn't have its own bits of history, like how Supporter's Cup came to be

there are a lot of soccer fans in America that put a lot of effort to sustain MLS, and Supporter's Cup is part of the tradition. at least you can show some respect for those fans

[flatpicker]

I like playoffs.
At the same time, I wish there was more attention given to teams that finish top of the league.
And that's not limited to just MLS.
I feel even stronger about that when it comes to NHL, NBA and MLB.
Those clubs play 82, 82, and 162 games respectively in a season.
That is a long haul, and the best club deserves a lot of praise for coming out on top.

[Milky]

I'm a Canadian living in Europe so I see both sides of the argument equally well. Personally, I would rather see the MLS adopt a "European style" of season where you play ever other team in the league home and away, with the best team crowned the champions at the end. This system allows for a playoff format, but you simply play it during the season as a side competition.

However, North Americans are just so accustomed to playoffs that I think you have to have them in the MLS. Perhaps they could be treated as a separate end-of-season tournament, though, with clubs making the playoffs but some sort of seeding format being used (based on the regular season standings). Maybe the champions could even get a bye to the final and the lowest teams during the regular season don't qualify.

[LesH]

there are a lot of soccer fans in America that put a lot of effort to sustain MLS, and Supporter's Cup is part of the tradition. at least you can show some respect for those fans

Hey I'm not trying to be a prick either, but having an opinion about some name has nothing to do with disrespecting some fans.

It's just a personal opinion. It's the same thing when people consider that some team's name is stupid ---> in this case one is disrespecting all those working for that team and those supporting it? No!

Now it's Supporter's Cup or Supporter's Shield?
Because Supporter's Cup is a better name.

[ag futbol]

I'm on the fence.

Personally, if they took just the best 4 teams or had some really small playoff bracket I'd be willing to say the playoffs were more valuable. But considering how watered down they are currently, I find it hard to respect the team that gets some mediocre form throughout the season but somehow scrapes into the playoffs + wins.

[razor787]

I love the playoffs. It is just the way sports work here. I think however, they should somewhat combine both ways.

Have a single table. You play every team home and away. The top team gets the supporters cup (make it a bigger deal than what it is. Right now, nobody really cares about it).

After the season. The top 8 teams go into a playoff style tourny. 1st place plays 8th, and so on.

It is pretty much the way that it is done now. It's just killing off the conferences, and putting more publicity, and emphasis on the supporters cup.

Going this route, even if a shit team like Colorado wins the MLS cup, there has already been so much publicity given to the supporters cup, that its not as big of a deal.

Another thing that might work out kinda cool, is to have the supporters cup, and then the playoffs. But instead of selecting the best teams positioned 1-8 from the season, it seeds the best 2-9th.

The playoffs play out, and it ends up with 1 winner. Whoever wins the playoffs plays the winner of the supporters cup, for the MLS cup.

[TFCRegina]

First of all, the Supporters Shield is not stupidly named.

Learn the god damn history of the trophy. It's not a league creation.

It was created by the Supporters groups of the league back in the 90s, in order to reward the winner of the most games in the Regular Season (because back then, MLS didn't give 2 shits).

[NBS]

Everybody comes into the MLS season knowing that the champion is the one that claims the MLS cup. Thus that's all I really care about, claiming the MLS cup. Supporters shield is nice, but if you can't get it done in the playoffs when the stakes are highest, then you aren't a championship caliber team IMO.

[David_Oliveira]

For me, the supporters shield is just a nice way of saying you did well during the regular season. I have lived in Canada since birth following NA sports my whole life. If you can't win when the stakes are highest.....F-off..... its all about winning the final game of the season.

However that said. If they went to a European style top of the table is the league championship I would support that. This is not the case we currently see though.

+1
I like the playoff format. It adds excitement. The real teams show up for the playoff rounds. It's what makes knockout games so fun to watch. The added importance to the game is awesome. I'm not saying that the playoffs are more important to me but for our market it is. NA sports thrive on Post season playoffs.

[TFCRegina]

Everybody comes into the MLS season knowing that the champion is the one that claims the MLS cup. Thus that's all I really care about, claiming the MLS cup. Supporters shield is nice, but if you can't get it done in the playoffs when the stakes are highest, then you aren't a championship caliber team IMO.

Disagreed.

Playoffs are a randomizer. Even over the regular season the best teams lose games (watch someone will pull out a team that went undefeated to become the holder, great job guys...).

Essentially, playoffs are built on the notion that any single team can win on any given sunday. It's a coin flip, with weights different than 50-50...ie: the better team in regular season will likely win 60-40.

The point is: playoffs are nothing more than a game of chance and don't really tell the true measure of a team.

It's a hell of a lot harder to be the better team over 30 games than it is over 1.

[LesH]

I'm on the fence.

Personally, if they took just the best 4 teams or had some really small playoff bracket I'd be willing to say the playoffs were more valuable. But considering how watered down they are currently, I find it hard to respect the team that gets some mediocre form throughout the season but somehow scrapes into the playoffs + wins.

It'll be even more watered down from 2011:
10 teams from a total of 18 in playoffs!

At least until now was the first 50% of teams making the playoffs.

[Darlofletch]

It'll be even more watered down from 2011:
10 teams from a total of 18 in playoffs!

At least until now was the first 50% of teams making the playoffs.

in 2010 it was, but in 09, it was 8 out of 15, 08 8 out of 14, 07 8 out of 13 and so on and so forth.

as others have said, if you just like tfc and don't pay any attention to the rest of mls, that's cool, but it might be for the best to stop talking about the stuff you're so proudly ignorant of.

[tfc2007]

I am a soccer guy, but I'm also a North American sports guy.

Playoffs matters way more than anything else. When the season starts I don't sit there and hope that TFC win the Table; I hope that they win the MLS Cup. Table is just a nice bonus.

[prizby]

forgot to mention:

tv money...

[thisisinternetclash]

I'd love to see us get to point where each trophy is highly prized.

Regardless of your sporting background and what you would prefer to be the more important trophy, though, there's no argument that the Supporter's Shield is currently the more prestigious prize, simply because the league and clubs themselves don't consider it to be.

If the Galaxy are tied for the Supporter's Shield going into the last week of the season but Donovan has a hamstring tweak that could easily be more serious injured through exertion, he's going to be given the game off and saved for the playoffs.

If a Toronto coach decided that winning the regular season league table was the primary goal, and burned his players out while gearing training and adapting player selection policies to win the Supporter's Shield at all costs, it would be something of a hollow victory as other teams simply aren't doing that.

[Oldtimer]

--typical off-season thread... rehashing something that has been discussed to death since 2006.


We also need threads on

• promotion & relegation vs. single level with playoffs
• evening or afternoon start times?
• a hard salary cap with DPs vs. a flexible cap without DPs - do we use the MLS, NBA, NHL, or MLB model or leave things as they are?

Then our off-season will be complete.

[TFCRegina]

--typical off-season thread... rehashing something that has been discussed to death since 2006.


We also need threads on

• promotion & relegation vs. single level with playoffs
• evening or afternoon start times?
• a hard salary cap with DPs vs. a flexible cap without DPs - do we use the MLS, NBA, NHL, or MLB model or leave things as they are?

Then our off-season will be complete.

You forgot honouring FIFA dates.

[gracos]

I would love to see one table in the future, I dont think the playoffs work that well, and this would make every single game more competitive, but they wanted to stick to a North American playoff format, that I do not believes works all that well

[DichioTFC]

i really would like to see a new thread about re-signing / trading DeRo

[prizby]

I would love to see one table in the future, I dont think the playoffs work that well, and this would make every single game more competitive, but they wanted to stick to a North American playoff format, that I do not believes works all that well

and when the league is decided in september, who is going to watch (outside of the 1000-to a couple of thousand ultras)...take the Arabe Unido game for example

not to mention the lack of interest in tv viewers meaning less tv $$$...it just won't happen

not every team in the MLS has 20,000 fans that will pack the stadium week in and week out

[jloome]

In case anyone's wondering, Ives Galarcep had a poll on this about a year ago and the majority of supporters clearly favoured a single table in which the season champion is the league champion.

It wasn't a blowout, it was 52/48 or something like that. But it surprised a lot of people.

[jloome]

and when the league is decided in september, who is going to watch (outside of the 1000-to a couple of thousand ultras)...take the Arabe Unido game for example

not to mention the lack of interest in tv viewers meaning less tv $$$...it just won't happen

not every team in the MLS has 20,000 fans that will pack the stadium week in and week out

Nothing says you can't just have two equally important titles: the league title and the playoff title (or cup title, if you prefer the euro term.)

[Beach_Red]

Nothing says you can't just have two equally important titles: the league title and the playoff title (or cup title, if you prefer the euro term.)

Winning the Pennant in baseball used to be a big deal, probably as big as the World Series, but it isn't anymore. It's tough to have more than one championship a year for a sport here. Leagues keep trying, NHL teams raise banners as all kinds of "division" champions and President's Cup winners but people just don't seem to care much about that.

If tradition is imporant then shouldn't North American traditions count for something? We'e always looking for a way to have a single "Championship Game" or series.