Nigel Reed - MLS playoffs

[TFCRegina]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/nigel...e-a-farce.html

I love this article. Move to a single table system and take the top 8 teams.

[flatpicker]

Can't say I disagree.

[nascarguy]

Why can't he take about the csl final . Fuck them there all shit they can all eat a dick! If tfc is not play fuck them & fuck mls!

[Smuttynose]

easy there nascar... you're starting to sound like someone else i know!

[rocker]

Nigel is right...

but I find it amusing his comment about not really getting "playoffs" since he's European.

The concept underlies Champions League... it underlies the World Cup.... what's so hard to understand? Those tourneys take the best of "groups" or "leagues" and have them play each other. Both have finals after the "seasons" (groups) and "playoffs" are over.

Do people pay more interest to Man U after they win Champions League than after they win the EPL? of course.

[Pookie]

^ there is an alternative to revamping the "playoffs" and giving some meaning to the Supporter's Shield (while boosting interest in potential expansion cities).

1. Award a table champion.

2. Model the "FA Cup" and create a tournament linking clubs from USL, CSL and MLS. MLS clubs come in during the later rounds. To the victor goes the Supporters Shield

[Cashcleaner]

Nigel is right...

but I find it amusing his comment about not really getting "playoffs" since he's European.

The concept underlies Champions League... it underlies the World Cup.... what's so hard to understand? Those tourneys take the best of "groups" or "leagues" and have them play each other. Both have finals after the "seasons" (groups) and "playoffs" are over.

Do people pay more interest to Man U after they win Champions League than after they win the EPL? of course.

Yeah, that's a pretty good point, actually.

In my opinion, the MLS Playoffs are in need of a quick fix, not a bullet to the head as some would like to see. Call me crazy, but I like playoffs. The only problem is (as Nigel and others have suggested), the league's current playoff format is far more complicated than it has to be. Simple solution: Get rid of the conferences altogether and seed the playoffs according to points exclusively.

Single Table this bitch!

[Globetrotter]

Two divisions are fine. And the top 8 teams DID make it to the playoffs.

It's not like they're taking 4 and 4. They're taking a small chunk (2) from each division, then the other 50% that make it through are the best remaining teams. Odds are, the top two teams in a certain division will likely be a top 8 team overall anyways.

they're really making a big deal out of nothing. this is north america, suck it up, this is how we roll.

[Cashcleaner]

Two divisions are fine. And the top 8 teams DID make it to the playoffs.

It's not like they're taking 4 and 4. They're taking a small chunk (2) from each division, then the other 50% that make it through are the best remaining teams. Odds are, the top two teams in a certain division will likely be a top 8 team overall anyways.

they're really making a big deal out of nothing. this is north america, suck it up, this is how we roll.

I know it doesn't sound like a huge issue (it's not, BTW), but the inclusion of conferences does disrupt the seeding process. Shouldn't we strive to have as fair a league as we can?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Nigel is right...

but I find it amusing his comment about not really getting "playoffs" since he's European.

The concept underlies Champions League... it underlies the World Cup.... what's so hard to understand? Those tourneys take the best of "groups" or "leagues" and have them play each other. Both have finals after the "seasons" (groups) and "playoffs" are over.

Do people pay more interest to Man U after they win Champions League than after they win the EPL? of course.

I don't agree with the comparison of group stage to elimination of Champions league and World Cup being that similar. It's far more exclusive than playoffs. Playoffs get too much attention here and reward mediocrity though a domestic season.

I don't see playoffs going away anytime soon with so many agreeing with Cash's love fir them but I wouldn't miss them.

[Globetrotter]

I know it doesn't sound like a huge issue (it's not, BTW), but the inclusion of conferences does disrupt the seeding process. Shouldn't we strive to have as fair a league as we can?

Well, yes and no. I know what you are saying, but the seeding is very minimally altered. The reality is, if you are first and expect to play the 8th place team, the 7th place team might only be 7th by tie breaker... or separated by 1 or 2 points. It's really no big deal.

How many times in other sports do you see one conference being much better than another? How often do you hear a conference championship game is the "unofficial real championship" because it might be 1vs2 in the east finals, and 4vs6 in the west finals... which would mean the championship game would be lopsided going by "seeding"?

Seeding is important, but when you're counting straws with a bunch of equals....

[flatpicker]

I know it doesn't sound like a huge issue (it's not, BTW), but the inclusion of conferences does disrupt the seeding process. Shouldn't we strive to have as fair a league as we can?

And that's my problem with the current setup.
In my mind, conferences and divisions are supposed to occur when teams play more games against regional rivals.
Major League Baseball is the closest to getting it right, as far as I am aware.
A teams schedule is weighted according to their division and league...
how many interleague games happen during the MLB season?... not long ago it was zero.
But the best of both leagues play for the World Series.

MLS should go one way or the other.
Either have teams play 75% of their games against division rivals,
Or scrap divisions altogether and make it a single table.
My preference is single table, especially since the league is unlikely to grow much beyond 20 teams.

[Beach_Red]

^ there is an alternative to revamping the "playoffs" and giving some meaning to the Supporter's Shield (while boosting interest in potential expansion cities).

1. Award a table champion.

2. Model the "FA Cup" and create a tournament linking clubs from USL, CSL and MLS. MLS clubs come in during the later rounds. To the victor goes the Supporters Shield

I have to say, it really feels like included in all this discussion is an assumption that there's something wrong with the North American system, rather than the fact it grew out of different traditions and geography. It feels like there's really a lack of respect for North American traditions.

There are a few reasons why a playoff system emerged in North America, but people don't seem very interested in the history.

I guess you can say this is soccer, so none of that matters, but not many places in the world give up their traditions easily.

[Oldtimer]

I have to say, it really feels like included in all this discussion is an assumption that there's something wrong with the North American system, rather than the fact it grew out of different traditions and geography. It feels like there's really a lack of respect for North American traditions.

MLS should go one way or the other.
Either have teams play 75% of their games against division rivals,
Or scrap divisions altogether and make it a single table.
My preference is single table, especially since the league is unlikely to grow much beyond 20 teams.

MLS hasn't decided yet which way to go.

There is a proposal before the board of governors to move from a balanced schedule to a regional rivalry based schedule. Possible re-alignment into 3 divisions is also proposed. There is also a counter-proposal to go with a balanced schedule.

MLS has kept the divisions in the current format in order to keep their options open. Once a strong consensus forms among the club owner-operators, then we will probably see a strong movement in that direction.

I suspect that with a 20 team league, and especially if they ever go above 20 teams, a division-based schedule will be compelling, given the huge travel distances (which is why North American sports tend to have divisions, and why D-2 is moving to regional-based competitions). Also, if fans balk at paying for 34 games this year, imagine if we have 38 home games. The season would have to be stretched, as well as people's pocket-books. So as much as single-table seems desirable, I doubt that it will be the long-term solution.

[Thrillos]

I have to say, it really feels like included in all this discussion is an assumption that there's something wrong with the North American system, rather than the fact it grew out of different traditions and geography. It feels like there's really a lack of respect for North American traditions.

There are a few reasons why a playoff system emerged in North America, but people don't seem very interested in the history.

I guess you can say this is soccer, so none of that matters, but not many places in the world give up their traditions easily.

Why do we have to "honour" the north american system, when it was the north american "system" that rejected soccer for years. It drives me insane how mls is trying to keep north american traditions to keep north american fans.

I only got into MLS when it became less north american and more like soccer everywhere else in the world. The fans of MLS aren't north american fans, they are soccer fans, and MLS won't be a top world league until it realizes that they are trying to cater to "fans" that don't give two shits about soccer.

[nascarguy]

Nigel is right...

but I find it amusing his comment about not really getting "playoffs" since he's European.

The concept underlies Champions League... it underlies the World Cup.... what's so hard to understand? Those tourneys take the best of "groups" or "leagues" and have them play each other. Both have finals after the "seasons" (groups) and "playoffs" are over.

Do people pay more interest to Man U after they win Champions League than after they win the EPL? of course.

Yeah I know is a great guy he was at the csl playoff after tfc vs columbus

[Cashcleaner]

MLS hasn't decided yet which way to go.

There is a proposal before the board of governors to move from a balanced schedule to a regional rivalry based schedule. Possible re-alignment into 3 divisions is also proposed. There is also a counter-proposal to go with a balanced schedule.

MLS has kept the divisions in the current format in order to keep their options open. Once a strong consensus forms among the club owner-operators, then we will probably see a strong movement in that direction.

I suspect that with a 20 team league, and especially if they ever go above 20 teams, a division-based schedule will be compelling, given the huge travel distances (which is why North American sports tend to have divisions, and why D-2 is moving to regional-based competitions). Also, if fans balk at paying for 34 games this year, imagine if we have 38 home games. The season would have to be stretched, as well as people's pocket-books. So as much as single-table seems desirable, I doubt that it will be the long-term solution.

Unfortunately, having any format other than single table in place ends up putting some teams at a permanent disadvantage. I don't like the half-assedness (new word, everyone!) of inter-league play like the NFL or MLB. If you're in one particular league or conference, adding games against team outside your pool of competition just bogs things down unnessarily.

[denime]

I have to say, it really feels like included in all this discussion is an assumption that there's something wrong with the North American system, rather than the fact it grew out of different traditions and geography. It feels like there's really a lack of respect for North American traditions.

There are a few reasons why a playoff system emerged in North America, but people don't seem very interested in the history.

I guess you can say this is soccer, so none of that matters, but not many places in the world give up their traditions easily.

There is only one reason why you have playoffs in North America and that's $$$$$$$$ nothing else.

[Beach_Red]

There is only one reason why you have playoffs in North America and that's $$$$$$$$ nothing else.

You forgot the smiley face on that post.

Every team in the world that charges admission is in it for the money.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Why do we have to "honour" the north american system, when it was the north american "system" that rejected soccer for years. It drives me insane how mls is trying to keep north american traditions to keep north american fans.

I only got into MLS when it became less north american and more like soccer everywhere else in the world. The fans of MLS aren't north american fans, they are soccer fans, and MLS won't be a top world league until it realizes that they are trying to cater to "fans" that don't give two shits about soccer.

I agree with the sentiment and truly believe a single table is the best thing for the sport but all you have to do is visit BS once to see that we are a minority here. Here most people are for it but outside in the States they are of the mindset of BR. It's looked upon as a point of pride that they do things their own way (regardless if it's a dated reason for it) and they'll be damned if any "Euro Snobs" change it!

Another kneejerk reaction is that all "EuroSnobs" think a single table means promotion-relegation is the next step. It's an entirely different scope of change than a single table.

[Beach_Red]

^ I should point out, I personally don't care how the teams are arranged, what trophy people choose to value the most, which league the team plays in (it's hard to imagine an MLSE run TFC in the top division, though, if they think "making the playoffs" is the goal, then certainly they would consider not being relegated a worthy goal) or any of that.

It's just the tone of the discussion that I respond to. I like the idea that people are looking for ways to make the sport and the league more popular, but it does happen in a context. the reasons for playoffs in North America aren't entirely historical and these days it has more to do with the huge amount of competition among sports - for paying customers and also for media coverage. Playoffs gives a league a few weeks to showcase itself and be the top story.

[H Bomb]

Also Americans have never really recognized levels of wining. For them (and to a certain extent us) you are the Champion, or a loser. This is why they cant take leagues seriously, because the idea of having 2 champions in one year doesnt sit with the black and white win or no win system they've evolved into. I think its sad. It only means more fans end the season disappointed.

[Cashcleaner]

Also Americans have never really recognized levels of wining. For them (and to a certain extent us) you are the Champion, or a loser. This is why they cant take leagues seriously, because the idea of having 2 champions in one year doesnt sit with the black and white win or no win system they've evolved into. I think its sad. It only means more fans end the season disappointed.

Yes...and that's why winning is all the more sweeter.

It's the whole spirit of competition. Shouldn't we endeavour to be the best team in the league?

[H Bomb]

^^ But the best team in the league is the team that gets the most points in the league. The playoff winner is the playoff winner. Both are great, but only one is really "the best" imo

[Thrillos]

I think the whole point of the playoffs is for owners like MLSE, where instead of aiming to be the best in the league, like all teams should in a "parity" league, they are allowed to say that the goal is the playoffs.

If anything I think playoffs allow for owners to aim for mediocrity instead of the top. I also think that some who believes north American sports have parity, should take a look at the regular season standings over a few years, cause I guarantee you will see the same teams in relatively the same area of the standings. Its the playoffs that give the gimmick of parity, because once it comes down to one on one, any team can beat the other team given the chance. Its top teams that finish at the top of the table over a season.

Wanted to add in that if you wiki the winners of the league and cups in the top euro leagues you will see that top teams when the leagues year in and year out (with the odd anomaly) but its the cups that have a new winner almost every year, just like the Super Bowl, World Series and Stanley Cup.