With or without DeRo and JDG?Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat
With or without DeRo and JDG?
Without. I think the NT is better without De Ro in all honesty. JDG is still useful though.
Agreed.
However, I'm not convinced with the current set up of TFCA.
I've always felt that your best technical coaches should work with your best young players. Right now, TFCA's best young players are under the guidance of Stuart Neely. Most of his competitive coaching experience comes from coaching at Scarboro United, a girls club. Then he spent a chunk of time coaching coaches for the CSA, Manitoba SA and the Ontario SA. His high level hands-on player development is less than his time coaching girls. And then he's lacking the "been-there-been through-it" playing experience acquired from playing at a high level. He talks-the-talk, but he's never walked-the-walk. His professional experience is limited to his time associated with TFC. My apologies for the hatchet job, he's a nice guy but I don't think he should be front line with TFC's most impressionable prospects.
Think about it this way, who do you want working with TFC's key prospects, a guy like Danny Dichio, or a guy like Stuart Neely? As a matter of record, I think TFC got it right with Jason Bent, ex pro player turned coach.
To the matter of Lindsay and Henry. Neither of Nicholas Lindsay or Doneil Henry make me think TFCA has turned the player development corner. I think the decisions about them are more to do with PR moves.
Remember this, Russel Tiebert (Niagara Falls) and Kevin Cobby (Brampton) bolted TFCA and joined Vancouver's residency program last year. They left the very program that Neely administers. And for those who don't follow the youth programs, Russ Tiebert has been the CSA's top male youth player the previous 2 seasons; Cobby was a nominee. Neither Lindsay or Henry made the nominees list. Their departures are a significant loss to TFCA.
As an aside, I'll take Tiebert and Cobby over Henry & Lindsay every opportunity that I'm given.
My final comment is to the issue of recruiting for TFCA. Who would make a better pitch, "the push or pull type factor", Jim Brennan or Stuart Neely?
Again, apologies to Mr Neely, sorry, but I do believe there is a coaching role for him with TFCA, its just not being the lead coach for the best prospects.
TFCA requires experienced qualified professional coaches to guide their most impressoinable prospects through the transition from youth footballer to professional football apprentice and senior football.
Nope, THIS is what you said
I think we can probably bring up three or four a year easily if we run the youth system properly.
What a joke, to think that any team in the MLS is going to compete by bringing in 4 of their academy players every year. You know what that means? by year 3 you have 12 players who are all young as hell. Sorry, not smart.
BTW- pretty childish of you to open up a thread on another forum to point out how much you disagree with me. Sometimes I forget that not everyone on the other side of a computer is a grown man.
Oh, and lastly, this is TFC. Not the CMNT. I could give a rats ass if we had 1 or 12 Canadians on the team.
I'm shocked your still allowed to post after your initial insult in this thread.
BTW: Did you seriously say Canada has a better talent pool then the U.S? hahahahaha. fuck me. There is no stat, nothing at all that you could use to prove you are right.
Last edited by Pachuco; 10-18-2010 at 07:19 PM.
Ridiculous statement.
Originally Posted by Macksam: I said if they are playing well. You missed that key word. As for young Canadians not being at the same level as young Americans, I disagree. The GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in Canada or the United States. We're just beginning to harnest it properly.
Originally Posted by Blowing Bubbles: Ridiculous statement.
Not so much.
Up to 12 or 13 elite Canadian youth club teams compete very well internationally. Locally, top CSL, SRSL and OYSL teams do very well in the US and abroad. Ask around.
These same youth Canadian teams generally start falling behind at age 14, 15 and up.
I think these are very much bastardized fact though. We have parents with disposable income who like to value these types of things, the rest of the world could care less. When your hitting those older age groups, it stops becoming who's parents will pay fees and turns into a real game. That's when shit hits the fan and we fall back.
That being said, I still see huge potential in the GTA for talent development. Sullivan has a point, it looks like we are losing the war on attracting talent and i'm not necessarily convinced the right people are running the program. I'm not about to fall all over Lindsay and Henry as prospects just let. If this is supposed to qualify as success Bent and Neely are getting off easy.
We can't just produce prospects, we need BETTER prospects than the rest of the league. Outside of LA, we probably have the advantage of the largest player pool to draw from. We should be able to produce higher quality players but there's no evidence we're doing that as of yet.
Youth soccer is a very fragmented community.
Lot of empire building. Lot of coaches are hot after an $11 trophy.
Lots of poaching, especially with the OYSL and their elite feeder divisions.
And yeah, the fuck'n parents, always shopp'n for a winning team!
Majority of rep coaches churn players seeking success so there is very little development. But the coaches committed to development end up having their player's poached. Its a vicious cycle.
Clubs put the pressure on the coaches; win or lose your team.
Development at the youth level is mostly a concept. And what's really shocking is that attrition starts at the u11 level, rep and rec.
TFC cut a deal with the OSA to start TFCA, they went the easy route to start, that included a job for Neely.
TFCA should have their own regional development program - programs in York, Halton, Peel, Niagara, Toronto, Durham, Haldimand, Hamilton, Welling, Dufferin, etc. I saw the proposal that was sent in. It was very detailed, included admin, operations, technical and it was all costed out. It went no where. Not even a thanks to the guy who put the time and energy to put it together and submit it.
Sometimes I forget that not everyone on the other side of the computer has good reading comprehension because you have shown twice now that you can't even comprehend a simple internet post Chuco.
First, I said the GTA probably houses the best raw, young soccer talent in either the Canada or the US. How does that come out to you as me saying "Canada has a better talent pool than the US"? I'm curious to see you explain this one?
Second, you conveniently left out the first part of that quote. I said "I'm not saying we'll have more next season, but what if more get promoted in the coming years and all of the sudden we have 7 youngsters starting, and playing well?"
I did say if they would be playing well. By you not putting two and two together is just splitting hairs on your part and again, saying things just for the sake of saying things which you have a knack for. This I know to be true from the Lindsay thread when you thought he wasn't MLS ready. You ended up embarassing yourself in that thread and now you're doing the same here Chuco.
One more thing Chuco, you also said this gem:
"What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us."
You essentially said you want 0 Canadians on the team, but for some reason you started to backtrack when both TFC Regina, Jambo and I called you out on your coy bull shit.
I'm also still allowed to post because what I said was correct, nothing more.
Last edited by Macksam; 10-18-2010 at 10:08 PM.
No offense, but Canada is one of the worst footballing nations in the developed Western world.
I want better players regardless of country.
They're trying to start some "CAP" program right now, but it's not broken down by region as this idea is, which seems like an ideal concept in itself.
Thank you for reading the initial post and then ignoring the 67 replies that followed. We clearly haven't seen this post before.
Last edited by Macksam; 10-18-2010 at 10:04 PM.
You got it.
Man we could start a 100 page thread about all the problems soccer has at the youth levels in this country.
The coaching education program is a joke. The CSA license is a political party favour and people are practically encouraged not to take it. Asides from that the value of it is low. No wonder weve sunk so far. Rather than dispersing knowledge were shunning it.
TFC needs to pull it`s head far enough out of it`s ass to see that the OSA is not the place you go to find coaches or model your program.
Back in the 70's, I remember having 16 year olds on our reserve team in the old T&D league. Where is that option or opportunity today?
And only a total retard would think Regina rhymes with vagina in the first place. "Re" and "Va" don't rhyme, and it's a two-syllable name.
So true. The amateur system and its fiefdoms are just ridiculous. I couldn't believe, when I moved to Canada 20 years ago from Britain, how far behind kids from my own age group were, even after going through relatively low-level programs in England.
Virginia?
No offense, but on this subject, and with that name, I care a lot less about your opinion.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I think you knew that already so what's your point? Mine is there are Canadians that are performing. I would choose them before anyone else. Not at any price, though.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
both are good but only if there used in the right way ( water boy)........lol
Remind me what I said about Lindsey? I have no idea what you are talking about. Think you are remembering the wrong person. I actually like Lindsey and always liked his potential.
Now, if you say the GTA houses the best raw talent in North America. Wouldn't you think that translates to having a deeper pool to choose from? How do you even make this shit up? Seriously, where do you get this from? If that's the case, why isn't every player being drafted in the MLS from the GTA? Like I said, you have no way to prove your statement and all stats show that you are wrong. The only one embarassing himself is you. Talking about the GTA having better raw talent then Mexico and even the U.S. What a joke.
As for conveniently leaving something out, it's the same shit you did to make your point. Your problem is you said two different things in the same statement. I was always referring to you talking crap about TFC should bring up 4 players EASILY every year. Which had nothing to do with the other part of your statement.
As for this quote:
"What everybody else said. I want the opposite. I want the number of Canadians to be the number that is forced on us."
That's exactly what I meant. Isn't the number forced on us sometihng like 6 Canadian players? that's more then enough for my liking. Let me remind you that the title of this thread is I want more Canadians next year. And my response to that was I want no more Canadians basically, what's been forced on us is what we have and I'm good with that.
The talent pool in Canada stinks, alot of these Canadian players who have come here couldn't play in a South American rep team. And most of them have underperformed aside from the 4 players I already named. I want guys who didn't come up playing in the worst soccer system in the world. I want guys who were born with a ball at their feet playing with no shoes on. If a really good Canadian happens to come along then sure, let's take him, but it's not where I would be looking for talent. I'm going to start the I want more Honduran's next year thread.
What you are very much forgetting is that this is the TFC forum. NOT the CMNT forum. You have people here from all over the place who support TFC who may or may not support the CMNT. You actually have people on here that don't even live in Canada. Therefore, you are going to get people who disagree with your blind love fest for Canadian soccer all kinds around here.
Last edited by Pachuco; 10-19-2010 at 11:16 AM.
^ backed up by Mo Johnston himself. Being "Canadian" was a criteria, presumably to help the business side of things.
"It's not about bringing in a 34- or 35-year-old," Johnston said. "I'm looking for someone 28, 29 and I believe it should be a Canadian. ... And, there's not many out there."
- Maurice Johnston, July 31, 2009
BTW - I just checked the thread about Lindsey. What I was saying in that thread is a kid like Lindsey could stunt his growth if he's brouht up too early to the MLS (with the fact there is no reserve league), specially this year being that he would sit on the bench. Luckily for him he was brought up to the worst team in the MLS (which is exactly what we were since he came up) so he got some playing time. However, you seem to have Lindsey pinned as the next Pele, which is kinda funny. Of course, you say this becuase he's Canadian and for no other reason. He's young, he needs time to develop, he sure as hell shouldn't be a starter next year on a competitive club. He'll get his shots at proving himself, but it's just silly to put him as a starter if we want to compete. Ibbey was as much of a talent as Lindsey (if not more) and what's everybody's opinion of him now? Remember when he scored in his first game with TFC? Lindsey could easily crash out of this league the same way Ibbey has if we aren't patient with him.
The NT is filled with guys who care for themselves, like DeRo. Funny how the NT has played really well its last two games without him. TFC didnt have problems scoring without him.
Anyway, I would rather they get Canadians from outside of those raised in the CSA who feel entitled.
Develop Canadians through the academy and get them time when they are ready with the big club, but yeah, get players who can play from who cares where.
Side note, Attakora is pretty good. The guy is really young still. Him and Henry could form a solid tandem if they continue to progress.
Henry looked promising in that game. Key words, that game. Remember that Ibrahim scored in his first game.
The good news is that you can rebuild a roster pretty dramatically in 1 year. I would expect every player at every position to have to compete for it based on the best available player for that position.
Cap hit will be a factor too but nationality should be way down the list of factors.
The difference is Ibby never showed this talent.
Also, again you say things for the sake of saying things. Please explain why Lindsay shouldn't be a starter next year? I'm not saying he should, but if he consistently plays like he did Saturday, why not?
I also never said this was the cmnt forum.
^ I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be a starter next year.
But I would say that we haven't evaluated ALL of the possible options for his position yet so what is the rush to hand him a roster spot?
I'm as patriotic as the next guy but in all honesty... screw this canadian team crap.
I wouldn't care if we fielded an entire team of sikh's in traditional garb so long as they won games and were appreciative to the fans.
What are you talking about Ibby never showed his talent? he was a G.A player who scored in his first MLS game.
Lindsey is an academy player who had a nice assist in his second competitive game with TFC. How is it that Lindsey has shown more then Ibbey? You probably didn't even know who Ibbey was until he came here. Never mind the fact that he played well for the U.S U20 team at the beginning of the year. Of course, that means nothing cause U.S Soccer sucks right? and Canadian soccer is sooooo much better.
And yes you did say he should be a starter next year, you said it in the Lindsey thread.
If I say things for the sake of saying things and you don't then please, PLEASE justify your claim that GTA has the best raw talent pool in North America. Please, give me something to back up your claim. Pretend I'm Mexican or American, and let me hear your argument for saying something as crazy as that?
I atleast have a reason for not wanting more Canadians on this team. We've all seen all large number of Canadians play for TFC and very few have actualy made this team better. It's been a lot of experiments with Canadian players to satisfy I guess people like you, people who refuse to see that Canadian soccer for what it is. You want to hold back TFC at the cost of giving shitty Canadian players an opportunity. I'm done with that, I want a winning team regardless of citizenship. I don't feel we'll get a winning team by looking at the Canadian pool. How the heck is that saying something for the sake of it? I trully belive our academy would be far better off bringing in kids regardless of their citizenship and I feel TFC would be far better off looking at players outside of Canada for next year's roster. That's my opnion, and I'm not just saying it for the sake of saying it.
I don't think anyone so far is advocating signing Canadians just because they are Canadian. It's just that in theory, it's easier to attract young talent to TFC if you are from Toronto (or Canada). If a talented Mexican, Argentinian or whatever nationality wants to play for the Academy of a team he may never have heard of in a city he's never heard of and is ok getting paid next to zilch for it, then I'm all for it.
As for first teamers, again I don't think anyone here is expecting/wanting TFC to sign someone just because they are Canadian, but useless. But what I am against is this reverse discrimination that just because you are Canadian, that you are automatically no good. And that's what I see you advocating, Pachuco.
K I'm not the next but the guy after the guy that was next and I'm saying you're not as patriotic as I am...when it comes to this game. By definition. You're saying you don't care if management makes the extra effort to bring in Canadian talent.
I don't like our present situation. It's not working and it has to do with the nationality of our star players but I'm not going to paint every Canadian with the same brush. I mean, that's just not what we do here.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
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