An interesting piece I found from the New York Times about Toronto FC's struggles and how they are souring out their core supporters.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/sp...cer/17mls.html
New York Times Article on TFC Testing Fans Patience
An interesting piece I found from the New York Times about Toronto FC's struggles and how they are souring out their core supporters.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/sp...cer/17mls.html
TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)
For all the people who said that our protest and voicing our anger was pointless...here's our story being reported in the New York Times!!!
Wow. On several levels.
That is a deeply embarrassing story to MLSE.
It is a very interesting thing that no one from MLSE or TFC was quoted directly in that story. Only a rehash of a Star quote by Anselmi.
How could that be? There is no way TFC wasn't contacted for comment before that ran.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
To the point , factual and exact. I am so happy that this has made it to the new york times.
"Fans falling out of love with TFC" on the home page of The Toronto Star right now...
The Canadian Press has also mentioned today's fan protests in an article published just now, which will like appear in many other news outlets over the next day...
But yeah, the NYT article is the biggest deal.
Last edited by Auzzy; 10-16-2010 at 06:44 PM.
This is pretty embarassing for MLSE. From supposedly the model franchise to this... And all this happened because MLSE forgot (or never really knew) the golden rule in business: the customer is right when it comes to how their money is going to be spent
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The author of the article actually writes for the Globe and Mail.
But that doesn't take away from the fact that it is a big deal that even the New York Times has taken notice of the bastards at MLSE.
It's repeating the fiction that Manchester United season tickets are cheaper than Toronto.
Hmm, and it's written by the Globe's TV columnist.
Boy, the New York Times has gone down hill ....
haha. this is so embarrassing for MLSE
Its a pretty huge deal for a multi million (billion?) dollar corporation to come right out and say sorry. Theyre only slightly less cautious than politicians when it comes to expressing judgment on decisions they have made.
Honestly, I think the problem runs alot deeper than people here think. Alot of people here will still re-new. But even with all the anger talk, people here are committed and interested and 'hard core' from a marketing perspective. I think what MLSE is finding is they are making the calls to Joey Casual in Ajax or Brampton and are being told the product is garbage and they just arent interested.
Most people who use this board in any function, posting, voting, whatever, will probably bend over and renew because they really want the franchise to succeed, or they just really love, or feel they have to be supportive of 'professional soccer in Toronto'; and thats fine. But I think those numbers are actually very few. Most people who occupy that stadium are fairly casual and I think now that all the lustre is gone, and theyre being asked to shell out such a huge price for tickes to games that they arent enjoying, people just say 'meh, ill pass'.
All this public capitulation looks bad from a corporate perspective. It makes them look weak and incompetent. I think theyre getting Bills in Toronto'd on season ticket renewals. The price has just become so astronomically out of whack with the quality of the product that people are just passing. Theyre offending the market's sensibilities.
Toronto FC was never the Maple Leafs, but its clear MLSE seems (or at least seemed) to think they are. People are loyal to the Leafs because that team is, as the kids say, 'old as fuck'. People arent going to pay out the nose to subject themselves to such a horrible product after just a handful of pitiful years of existence. I have a partial pack and dont plan on renewing whatever version of that im offered this year. I just so rarely find myself feeling compelled to go to the game. Its a bit of a hassle to get to (though im not saying accessibility/transport is any barrier), the soccer is absolute shit, and the team never wins after July.
And simply based on personal experience, there is zero demand for tickets. Single game tickets are readily available from scalpers, online traders, and even just the box office. I dont want 8 or 10 tickets up front because I know 80% of that football will be unwatchable garbage. Ill just get tickets when it is convenient for me and whenever the team actually begins to looks like a half way competent (or maybe just simply 'not complete garbage') football team
The main problem for me, which compounded the original problem, is the FO's inability / refusal to listen. Whether due to hubris or ignorance, they mentioned in their open apology, "But most of all, we are sorry for not listening better."
The problem is that they're still not listening. They're downplaying people's concerns and not taking the suggestions / demands to heart.
By saying "most of all," they're acknowledging that not listening "better" was their fatal flaw. Yet days later they still refuse to listen. The comments about empathizing with us are rhetoric, the "apology" was rhetoric the Town Halls are filled with rhetoric. If they're not going to give the supporters the respect they deserve, why should I consume their product?
I would hope the execs in MLSE can look at this from the customer's perspective. We *want* to consume their product, but they're making it damn hard for us to swallow this shit.
If MLSE doesn't find a way to get the supporters back in the stands and supporting the team, I'm afraid that TFC will have jumped the shark.
Last edited by DichioTFC; 10-17-2010 at 04:37 AM.
Tickets go for $7.00 - $7.99
Anybody who renews should get used to feeling like a dolt. The product on the field can't turn around very quickly and ticket prices in the secondary market have been hovering at less than $10 each. Checkout:Originally Posted by ilikemusic
http://www.stubhub.com/toronto-fc-ti...9-2010-985527/
Fans are fighting to get between $7 and $7.99 per ticket. This just is not a good business proposition to get reamed by ML$E when other fans are clamoring to sell you a ticket for $7... You'd have to be crazy to renew... See Yah.
Some tickets are priced more than man u but it depends on where you sit in the stadium. Below is a price list for man u for this season and last season as they freezed the price. You will see from this that if you sit in the medium grey at TFC then it is possible that you could pay the same to get a ticket at man u. Certainly anything above medium grey and you are definitely paying the same as some man u fans or more than them for a product that is not worth even one tenth of what you will see at man u in my opinion. For those in the red seats at tfc well you are paying more than every single person in the man u stadium based on this chart.
http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pa...2C3BC75888F%7D
Should be obvious by now.
Tom Anselmi has to resign. Has to leave if any positive change is to begin.
Tom Anselmi is not going to resign or be fired. The best you can hope for is that he pulls himself out of active decision-making over the personnel side of TFC and sticks to the business side.
I'm not seeing that. Almost all Man U prices look more expensive.
Compare to our prices - http://www.torontofc.ca/renew/pdf/20...art_Oct_13.pdf
Dark grey is $1,048 for 2011. This compares to Blue at Old Trafford (North Stand Tier 2 Centre and North and South Lower Centre). This is £817 or CAN$1,324. Our Red ($1,426) compares to Man U's Red, which is £931 or CAN$1,509. Our Club ($1,825) compares to Man U's White - which is so exclusive and expensive that they don't even publish the prices.
Our Medium grey is $712 which compares to dark grey or green at Man U (£874 and £779 - $1,416 and $1,262).
Our light-grey is $437 which compares to their light grey, which is £703 (CAN$ - $1,139)
Our cheapest seasons are yellow - $395 - the cheapest seasons at Man U are £513 ($831).
Even our new North stand (light blue) is $921, which compares to yellow at Man U £684 ($1,109).
At all prices levels, TFC tickets are somewhat to significantly cheaper than Man U. And their package is only for 19 games, while ours is for 19 games + MLS Cup, which represents 10.5% of the price.
This claim that Man U tickets are more expensive is absolutely untrue, and I have no idea why that people are accepting this claim without questioning it.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of our field-level seats and boxes, etc., are more expensive, but this only reflects that there is a lot more wealth in Toronto than an industrial backwater like Manchester; however these aren't the seats that we are all sitting in ... and they are hard to compare, as Man U doesn't publish these rates.
You have to look at the costs relative to their own economies, not take prices from two different economies and put them in the currency of one of the economies.
Shouldn't the real comparison be between sports that are not number one in each market?
How much are tickets to see hockey in the UK? What does it cost to go see the Coventry Blaze play the Sheffield Steelers? Wouldn't that be more like seeing the Columbus Crew play TFC?
It's not the first time. Remember Grunwald doing this in front of the Raps crowd years back. The Sun pointed it out too.
"
Maybe I'm a curmudgeon, but it's hard to take an anonymous, online apology for being sincere. This isn't former Raptors general manager Glen Grunwald standing at centre-court of Maple Leaf Gardens after a 16-66 season in 1997-98 promising better days ahead. Grunwald's embarrassment was real. And it wasn't about selling tickets.
Delivering an online, rather impromptu "we're sorry" followed by a just in case you forgive us, the season ticket renewal period has been extended, just doesn't cut it. And it get's better."
Towards the end of season 2, the attitude of Toronto FC FO changed. They decided that they now "got it" and didn't need to listen anymore.
But it's not just the club. It's the SG's too.
When it all started, this group was very inclusive, including with non-SG fans. There was no chip on the shoulder, no entitlement.
That has changed. And its a big reason why so many of the original members are nowhere to be seen.
The groups and the club are both guilty of thinking they had it all figured out and didn't need to listen to anyone.
I think both the FO and the SGs need to do a lot of listening and fixing this offseason.
I appreciate the perspective, I wasn't aware of most things you mentioned. I agree that accountability goes both ways and there are many ways our humble little SG can improve as well.
I get the feeling that there is no plan for 5-10 years down the line, growing the club and making it evolve on its own to something better. Recruiting new members, retaining ex-members, keeping current members. I think we're too satisfied with our current position and therefore we no longer strive to improve.
I know we have ~500 paid members. But I would really like to see that increase 10X to ~5000. Obviously distractions like results are always problematic, but first a plan to grow the group needs to be created. The results will change, the players will change, our luck will change. We need our group to change as well, for the better.
BANG ON!
As you know i have worked very hard over the past year to really listen to the members as best as i can. You are also aware that this off season, the group will really be working on getting back to where we were. The inclusion of everyone and the overall unity that was lost.
That is where my commitment will be in this off season.
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I haven't always agreed with Boris' decisions in the past, but I'm damn proud to have him leading the way right now.
If I could make one suggestion, it would be for RPBs to get to know each other away from TFC, away from futbol, maybe even away from sports altogether. Just get to know one another in a social environment. If something like that could be organized in the winter, I would be very happy to be a part of it.
totally agreed.
ive been pushing for 'get to know our rpb's night'. the issue is really timing. I am working on really setting up some pub nights for that.
I am thinking of even going back to using name tags with real names and board names so we can put a face to the name...
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No need to quote again, but you are right
Give how much more wealth there is in Toronto and how higher salaries are in Toronto than Manchester, I'm not sure how this helps the case that Manchester tickets are more expensive! We are talking Manchester here, not Chelsea!
The claim that Manchester United tickets are cheaper than Toronto tickets is absolutely absurd and without any basis.
Canadians "Disposable Income" is far lower than any other country so how come ours has to be so high? ML$E is hoping to tap into the corporate world not the true fans.
I can think of many, many countries where disposable income is lower than Canada. We have one of the highest disposable incomes in the world!
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Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !