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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by JimmyBaldX
    JDG also was surrounded by a supporting cast with a much higher skill level in Spain.

    Also, it seems like there are cliques of who players pass to on the field. De Rosario would rather pass to De Guzman and go backwards than find a forward pass to Maicon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy View Post
    This was noticeable last year as well. DeRo just WOULD NOT pass the ball to Vitti.
    That said, tonight, one of the best passes of the night was a terrific through ball from DeRo to Maicon.

    Additionally, JDG was five yards from DeRo late in the second half when we were down a goal when DeRo refused to lay off the ball, held on to it giving it away leading to their second goal.

    It's not a matter of who DeRo will or will not pass to, it is his judgement in regards to when he holds on and when he passes that is the real question.

    He made some very nice plays tonight at the front but those two giveaways were truly awful.
    Last edited by Blizzard; 10-10-2010 at 08:50 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgnewf View Post
    Due respect to everyone here but if anyone says de Guzman is not a talented player then they do not understand the sport.

    He is a great player but he will never be a great MLS player. He does not have the type of game to ever be a true difference maker in this league. His style of play, his size and the physical nature of this league make him feel like a square peg in a round hole for TFC.

    And the fact that he did not look like he even tried tonight, and I don't think he did, only makes it harder to swallow.

    I really think that TFC will be telling him and his agent soon to start sniffing around back in Europe in the January window. Him and his contract will be poison for TFC fans next season, especially after these recent results and the way this season will end.
    I'm going through this thread now. Who are you accusing of saying JDG isn't a talented player? why do you even bring that up when no one in the thread had said anything of the sort?

    As for JDG looking for something in Europe, good luck. It's been like 3 years since JDG was in form to play in Europe. He wouldn't be here in the first place if he had a shot at Europe. He made that very clear before he ended up giving in to TFC's offer after he recieved nothing substantial from anyone else. I guess he could play in the Greece league or something, that's as far as he'll get.

  3. #63
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    Just finished watching the game this morning. How Vaughn doesn't send off that fellow who elbowed Cann. He obviously saw it.

    Not much between the two until we capitulate. Dero gives the ball away twice, leading to goals two and three. The second though, is down the Frei. A rare lapse to be sure, but not saving that ball -- because he was in poor position -- in inexcusable.

    On the JDG discussion in this thread: there's no denying his talent, but if he truly was a great player then he'd be able to change his game to better suit this league, and to make the players around him more effective. That's what great players do. That's not what he does.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by koryo View Post
    Just finished watching the game this morning. How Vaughn doesn't send off that fellow who elbowed Cann. He obviously saw it.

    Not much between the two until we capitulate. Dero gives the ball away twice, leading to goals two and three. The second though, is down the Frei. A rare lapse to be sure, but not saving that ball -- because he was in poor position -- in inexcusable.

    On the JDG discussion in this thread: there's no denying his talent, but if he truly was a great player then he'd be able to change his game to better suit this league, and to make the players around him more effective. That's what great players do. That's not what he does.
    In regards to Frei, I don't think it was positioning. The ball went through his hands. He was there. The bounce fooled him a bit but the ball went clean through his hands.

    It was a rare misplay.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    This "MLS is a more physical league than La Liga" thing is pure BS. MLS might avg maybe 1 inch and 5 lbs over La Liga but their players are also much faster and skilled. Were not talking an avg height increase of 1 foot and 50 lbs here.

    A player that can handle Spain should be able to easily handle MLS ... if he cared to.
    1) Height and weight disparity don't necessarily have anything to do with how "physical" a league is.

    2) "MLS might avg maybe...". Well, as long as we are on a solid footing of factual information...

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by koryo View Post
    Don't forget that Vitti is still the best technical player we've ever had, even though he was useless. And Garcia's not shit, just playing in the wrong position.
    You're right, his correct position is cleaning the toilets.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC USA View Post
    You're right, his correct position is cleaning the toilets.
    Whoa, dude... it's like you can read my mind

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keystone FC View Post
    What sucks even more was that the Wiz lost. So if TFC would have won they would be in 3rd place right now.
    So many missed opprotunities this season...WE DEMAND BETTER!
    The sad thing is that MLSE really doesn't give a flying fart about what we demand, unless they start to make no profit at all running TFC.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    So when the coach is quoted as saying:

    "If you don't want to be here and fight, then you can make your way out," Dasovic told the club's website after the game. "No problem. We'll let you go and pursue other ventures. But if you want to be here, I only want guys who are going to fight for the football club."

    "When you watch a football game from the outside, you see a guy lose it and not track back - that's a character deficiency," Dasovic said.


    ... I'm left to wonder who is coming back?

    Frei, Attakora, Cann, Gargan.

    I guess we have a few roster spots open for next year.
    I would add to this list just Barrett, as the only other player who plays with hart and gives 100% effort every time he's on the pitch (plus scores a goal here and there every once in a while).

    I don't care about anyone else on this team to come back!

  10. #70
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    the never ending nightmare...
    at least we are improving our draft position and mo is not around to trade it for alo money..mo is gone right???

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    1) Height and weight disparity don't necessarily have anything to do with how "physical" a league is.

    2) "MLS might avg maybe...". Well, as long as we are on a solid footing of factual information...

    - Scott
    What are you even arguing here? So how do you quantify physicality? Body checks thrown per game, broken bones? Come on give me solid facts on this message board.

    - Bob Saget

  12. #72
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    I've always thought the physicality of MLS was more brutal than top leagues. By that, I mean that without the skill level of big leagues (which are physical too) you get players who run around nailing you because they lost the ball and are trying to make up for it, or don't time challenges properly.

    Big leagues have great athleticism and physicality too, but because the players are so skilled, there's a good balance there. You need to be athletic and physical to keep up, but the skill ensures that guys can't go around like butchers and hacks, which happens in MLS.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocker View Post
    I've always thought the physicality of MLS was more brutal than top leagues. By that, I mean that without the skill level of big leagues (which are physical too) you get players who run around nailing you because they lost the ball and are trying to make up for it, or don't time challenges properly.

    Big leagues have great athleticism and physicality too, but because the players are so skilled, there's a good balance there. You need to be athletic and physical to keep up, but the skill ensures that guys can't go around like butchers and hacks, which happens in MLS.
    I agree ... and perhaps that is why the level of referreeing is so low. They let a lot more go in this league although, perhaps, if they didn't, there would be a whistle very ten seconds.

    That doesn't excuse Alan Gordon's actions last night though. Pure thuggery.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocker View Post
    I've always thought the physicality of MLS was more brutal than top leagues. By that, I mean that without the skill level of big leagues (which are physical too) you get players who run around nailing you because they lost the ball and are trying to make up for it, or don't time challenges properly.

    Big leagues have great athleticism and physicality too, but because the players are so skilled, there's a good balance there. You need to be athletic and physical to keep up, but the skill ensures that guys can't go around like butchers and hacks, which happens in MLS.

    That's it exactly. It's due to the lack of tactical grounding and poor first touch. Don't try telling Americans that though. Every time I've made the point they go apeshit.

    Which is funny. There was a story last week on the fact that Americans rank 26th in the world in math skills, but when asked where they think they rank, they picked themselves as 1st.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard View Post
    I agree ... and perhaps that is why the level of referreeing is so low. They let a lot more go in this league although, perhaps, if they didn't, there would be a whistle very ten seconds.

    That doesn't excuse Alan Gordon's actions last night though. Pure thuggery.
    I honestly believe if you go back and watch games, compare the total number of whistles against each side, there's just a clear bias from American refs towards the Canadian team.

    The discrepancies in calls (and point totals) are simply too great to just be relative skill level.

  16. #76
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    What are you even arguing here? So how do you quantify physicality? Body checks thrown per game, broken bones? Come on give me solid facts on this message board.

    - Bob Saget
    Surely you can differentiate "physicality" from body checks and broken bones, and you're just being pedantic?

    MLS is a more physical league than La Liga. Stoke is a more physical team than Arsenal. Danny Dichio is a more physical player than Pablo Vitti.

    Fouls are a lot more pronounced. Guys are quicker to close down on the ball, and clumsier in trying to take it away. There's a lot more bumping and banging in close space, instead of artful dodging. There's a lot less diving and whining at the slightest whiff of contact.

    There are no numbers for this - it comes from simple observation.

    - Scott
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

  18. #78
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    Default Lost Causes

    Lost Causes

    http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/10/lostcause/


    With the combination of victory for San Jose and of course the defeat by Toronto FC last evening in Los Angeles against Chivas USA, the Reds has been officially eliminated from the MLS Playoffs for the fourth season running. As well for the first time TFC will now finish a season in Major League Soccer with a lower points total than the previous year.

    In this video blog I take a quick look back at the match, I call out a few players for a conspicuous lack of effort and I try and explain to the team why a lost cause is still battle worth fighting.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocker View Post
    I've always thought the physicality of MLS was more brutal than top leagues. By that, I mean that without the skill level of big leagues (which are physical too) you get players who run around nailing you because they lost the ball and are trying to make up for it, or don't time challenges properly.

    Big leagues have great athleticism and physicality too, but because the players are so skilled, there's a good balance there. You need to be athletic and physical to keep up, but the skill ensures that guys can't go around like butchers and hacks, which happens in MLS.

    Bang on!
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    There was a game last night?

    Frankly im disappointed DeRo and DeGuzman didnt go play for Canada instead of playing these meaningless games with Toronto.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikemusic View Post
    There was a game last night?

    Frankly im disappointed DeRo and DeGuzman didnt go play for Canada instead of playing these meaningless games with Toronto.
    No need to be disappointed,Canada played much better without them.

    They should not be called up for CMNT anymore,they are to old for 2014 anyway,time to give chance to younger,hungrier players to play for Canada.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikemusic View Post


    Why the heck are you posting American football clips? Just a simple question.

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    not sure what everyone was watching or maybe the game in 60 is toally different - didn't see the game live - and after seeing it was a 3-0 route thought - oh f*@k what a blow out - but no - actually from what i saw JDG played really well as did the team and if Santos had connected with any of the 4 potentials we could be very well looking at 3 points - not a bad game from what i saw and a definite red on Cann...

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    not sure what everyone was watching or maybe the game in 60 is toally different - didn't see the game live - and after seeing it was a 3-0 route thought - oh f*@k what a blow out - but no - actually from what i saw JDG played really well as did the team and if Santos had connected with any of the 4 potentials we could be very well looking at 3 points - not a bad game from what i saw and a definite red on Cann...

    The game you watched was HEAVILY edited, ML$E has a way of making sure their "games in..." replays don't show how bad their product actually is.
    Last edited by jimiv; 10-10-2010 at 10:55 PM.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzard View Post
    [/i]



    That said, tonight, one of the best passes of the night was a terrific through ball from DeRo to Maicon.

    Additionally, JDG was five yards from DeRo late in the second half when we were down a goal when DeRo refused to lay off the ball, held on to it giving it away leading to their second goal.

    It's not a matter of who DeRo will or will not pass to, it is his judgement in regards to when he holds on and when he passes that is the real question.

    He made some very nice plays tonight at the front but those two giveaways were truly awful.

    This has always been Dero's problem, sometimes he just holds the ball to long.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by backbeat View Post
    not sure what everyone was watching or maybe the game in 60 is toally different - didn't see the game live - and after seeing it was a 3-0 route thought - oh f*@k what a blow out - but no - actually from what i saw JDG played really well as did the team and if Santos had connected with any of the 4 potentials we could be very well looking at 3 points - not a bad game from what i saw and a definite red on Cann...
    Quote Originally Posted by jimiv View Post
    The game you watched was HEAVILY edited, ML$E has a way of making sure their "games in..." replays don't show how bad their product actually is.
    I was at the game and agree with the first post i quoted. were we great? of course not, but 3-0 was really really harsh. like dasovic said post game on tfctv, they came up with a plan to be able to create chances and we did that, but they can't score the goals for them. If santos had scored one of the excellent chances he had and we'd gone up by 1, it would have been a completely different game.

    after that we were chasing the game and threw more men forward. if cann hadn't had to go off, that might have worked, but after that, down to 10 men after already committing to a more attacking lineup we were always going to be vulnerable. I'd say 1-0 or even 1-1 would have been a fair result. we certainly looked more like winning than we did against seattle.

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bars92 View Post
    Why the heck are you posting American football clips? Just a simple question.
    I like rants about shitty teams. Feel free to add some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBobSaget View Post
    What are you even arguing here? So how do you quantify physicality? Body checks thrown per game, broken bones? Come on give me solid facts on this message board.

    - Bob Saget
    It's more about how the ref calls the game. In MLS the ref doesn't call as much, and lets more physical play pass.

    For me, the real difference between La Liga and MLS is really how the teams approach possession. In MLS, possession is more about brute force, winning 50/50 balls, and not much build up. What I mean is, in MLS players will keep the ball longer, pass it less, and there are probably fewer passes before a goal (though I don't have the stats to back that up). That means that, in MLS, defensive mids have to be good at tackling. They have to be good at taking a man on, and coming away with the ball. That was what Robinson excelled at. He was great at taking the ball away from the other team. Sure, he was terrible at passing after that, but he could stand a guy up with the best (in MLS) of them. In MLS (again, as a DM) you have to be tough physically, and force the person with the ball to make mistakes by pressuring them.

    La Liga isn't like that. In La Liga, players are better with their feet. That means that, a DM that played a high pressure, tackling game would just look like an idiot because by the time they tried to make the tackle, the ball was already somewhere else. That means that DMs have to play a smarter, play reading type of game. They have to see where the pass is going before the pass is even placed, and be in the right place. They have to see where the dangerous pass is going to be in the future, and be there to make sure that option doesn't exist. That's what JDG is good at, unfortunately, MLS teams don't build the same way La Liga teams do. That means that when he backs up to stop the dangerous passes, the player with the ball makes a pass that's less dangerous, but still effective against an MLS defense.

    The best example of that is the first game we played against Cruz Azul. Since they play a more dynamic, passing game, JDG was able to work effectively and shut down their offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    MLS teams don't build the same way La Liga teams do. That means that when he backs up to stop the dangerous passes, the player with the ball makes a pass that's less dangerous, but still effective against an MLS defense.

    The best example of that is the first game we played against Cruz Azul. Since they play a more dynamic, passing game, JDG was able to work effectively and shut down their offense.
    That's the crux of the problem. JDG is a good player, but not a good MLS player. He's great against Mexican teams, but poor against MLS sides.

    It all ends up with a poor signing for TFC, as we only face Mexican squads in CCL matches.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

 

 

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