Today's News,Wednesday,Sep.29

[Pachuco]

We wouldn't be looking to replace his goals within the MLS. James suggests 3 DPs to replace the goals.

I got three DP goal scorers for you. Denilson, Landin and Mista. There you go. What's to say you don't end up with these three guys?

With Dero you know exactly what you are going to get. Bringing in an outsider is a crapshoot as they have all proven except Angel and maybe Blanco. (I think Schellotto was made a DP after playing in the league).

So why not keep the (CONSISTENT) 10+ goals which is incredibly difficult to come by in the MLS and sign two additional DPs from guys who are currently not earning their salary?

[spark]

No, I suggested that Paul James suggested that we REPLACE his goals with 3 DPs. Could everyone pleeeease stop acting as if this is impossible.

There are 15 other teams in this league that score goals without Dwayne DeRosario. Geez.

Edit: That Wodolonski (sic) dude from San Jose who makes 50K has 12 goals for them...see! amazing isn't it?

The thing is - what have we seen in the last four years that would imply this is even possible? Based on what we've seen we can count on Paul Dikov showing up for training camp and some of Julian's ex-teammates. If Julian's gone, well there goes half our potential signings.

With no GM in place there is no point even throwing this idea out because it is pure fantasy.

Will Johnson is not stepping foot in BMO as a TFC player I can almost guarantee you that.

[J .]

Guevara was replaced by DeRo and DeRo can be replaced. He's a good player, but he's not irreplaceable. His character is lacking and only seems to cause problems, twice on the NT and once here. But if people want to ignore that and pretend he didnt have a hand in the dissent, thats their choice. My hero's have character and class.

We need a fresh start next season. New faces, new leadership. Who goes unbeaten for 13 games, then shits the bed? Who needs to beat the worst team and loses 5-0?Thats poor leadership from the FO and the captains. The FO is being changed, timed to change the lockeroom leadership.

[Pigfynn]

I got three DP goal scorers for you. Denilson, Landin and Mista. There you go. What's to say you don't end up with these three guys?

With Dero you know exactly what you are going to get. Bringing in an outsider is a crapshoot as they have all proven except Angel and maybe Blanco. (I think Schellotto was made a DP after playing in the league).

So why not keep the (CONSISTENT) 10+ goals which is incredibly difficult to come by in the MLS and sign two additional DPs from guys who are currently not earning their salary?

I can quote some best case scenarios for 3 new DPs if you would like to counter your VERY negative worst case scenario. It's not all black or white guys. Assume a happy medium here and the 12+ goals are easily accounted for.

Look I'm not even saying get rid of DeRo, just that Jame's take on the situation is different, it's a possible solution. We need to face the fact that this team needs a major face lift and it may be hard to get in talented players who want to play with an unbelievable ball hog with a shit attitude. Just saying

[Pachuco]

I can quote some best case scenarios for 3 new DPs if you would like to counter your VERY negative worst case scenario. It's not all black or white guys. Assume a happy medium here and the 12+ goals are easily accounted for.

Look I'm not even saying get rid of DeRo, just that Jame's take on the situation is different, it's a possible solution. We need to face the fact that this team needs a major face lift and it may be hard to get in talented players who want to play with an unbelievable ball hog with a shit attitude. Just saying

No no, you don't understand what I'm saying. I would consider getting rid of Dero, but for a known quantity in the MLS. Maybe someone like Angel. DPs are a crapshoot, the statistics prove that. We've had more DPs who have shit the bed then DPs who have been considered a success in the MLS. So if you are going to replace your best player, a player who has proven to be sucessfull in the MLS year after year, you better replace him with atleast 1 known quantity who is as good as him.

J. You use Dero as an example to replace Guevara. That's exactly my point. You know what Dero delivers in the MLS. Bring in Del Piero to replace Dero and you may get 1 goal out of the guy, who knows. This is an entirely different league that has made the likes of Mista and Denilson look terrible. If you are going to replace Dero, it better be with someone who has consistently delivered in the MLS.

[Pigfynn]

I do understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. I do feel that your example of arguably the 3 worst designated players in MLS history is very negative and that it's very reasonable to suggest that 3 (even foreign) DPs could replace DeRo's production.

Is this really that hard to believe?

DP Striker......7-9 goals
DP wide player....3-4 goals
DP attacking mid fielder....5-6 goals

that's a possible 19 goals without even being greedy and without any other striker or midfielder accounted for. We would need another 11-15 goals total from the rest of the team over 25 games to be on par with the top teams.

[CretanBull]

I do understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. I do feel that your example of arguably the 3 worst designated players in MLS history is very negative and that it's very reasonable to suggest that 3 (even foreign) DPs could replace DeRo's production.

Is this really that hard to believe?

DP Striker......7-9 goals
DP wide player....3-4 goals
DP attacking mid fielder....5-6 goals

that's a possible 19 goals without even being greedy and without any other striker or midfielder accounted for.

Or:

DeRo...12 goals
DP wide player...3-4 goals
DP striker...7-9 goals

Thats a possible 25 goals using the same metric.

[Pigfynn]

Or:

DeRo...12 goals
DP wide player...3-4 goals
DP striker...7-9 goals

Thats a possible 25 goals using the same metric.

Question: Does DeRo play nice with these new guys or does he still not ever pass and try to do it all himself like he's always done for every team he's played for?

Because if he does then I love this^^. but if he doesn't ....

[C.Ronaldo]

he passed with mista pretty well

mista was hitting him right on the tape with cross field crosses with perfect height and speed

[guelphguy1965]

Reading all this making me wish Dichio was still playing

[Roogsy]

No, I suggested that Paul James suggested that we REPLACE his goals with 3 DPs. Could everyone pleeeease stop acting as if this is impossible.

Well we already have 2 DPs, how many goals did they score?

[Roogsy]

I got three DP goal scorers for you. Denilson, Landin and Mista. There you go. What's to say you don't end up with these three guys?

With Dero you know exactly what you are going to get. Bringing in an outsider is a crapshoot as they have all proven except Angel and maybe Blanco. (I think Schellotto was made a DP after playing in the league).

So why not keep the (CONSISTENT) 10+ goals which is incredibly difficult to come by in the MLS and sign two additional DPs from guys who are currently not earning their salary?

^ This...


I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. I think I might tattoo this on my forehead:

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

It's like people decide to throw out proven wisdom for no good reason.

[H Bomb]

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soc.../15513066.html

Anyone else notice Sandors mistakes in his article. No big deal but to say that Julian was on the goal line for the scoring free kick and that it hit his mop of a haircut is poor journalism ya know. He was running back to the line, and threw his arm out in what basically should have been a red card, and would have been had it not gone in. I guess I just dont like seeing people get paid to write stuff so lazily. Nothing againt him before this or anything.

[Roogsy]

Touche...6 of one But he's not even hitting open spots let alone open players. I did appreciate his ability to stay on his feet when under pressure (gulp).

As for the 3 DP's to replace DeRo. I have no faith that MLSE will bring in the right personnel. They will bring in three "names" to sell tickets but bring nothing to the product on the field. We've seen this movie before.

When people read Paul James' articles, you should take it with a grain of salt, since he has an axe to grind with CMNT players. Especially the players he coached early on.

^ And this...

QFFT.

[H Bomb]

Again roogs, while you obviously disagree, and that's cool, you need to understand that smart, football knowledgable people on here may think that Dero is not the best fit. He may well be a bad influence on the team overall, through whatever his personality traits may be. People aren't arguing to be rid of 12 goals, but football is about more than goals, and for many of us, he doesnt offer too much more than that. Another old saying for you...bad apple spoils the bunch.

[Roogsy]

Again roogs, while you obviously disagree, and that's cool, you need to understand that smart, football knowledgable people on here may think that Dero is not the best fit. He may well be a bad influence on the team overall, through whatever his personality traits may be. People aren't arguing to be rid of 12 goals, but football is about more than goals, and for many of us, he doesnt offer too much more than that. Another old saying for you...bad apple spoils the bunch.

There are many smart football people on this board, many smarter than I am about football. I have no problems agreeing with that. But what I am seeing is not football analysis (from most, some do put up good opinions about DeRo's drawbacks) I am seeing mostly emotional responses to what they feel was an offensive gesture. That has little to do with football. And then they justify their opinions by intionally looking for reasons to ship him out. If DeRo had not made that gesture, I think half of these people wouldn't be so determined to send him off, which tells me it's not about football.

[H Bomb]

i think people are taking that back into the dressing room. Sure it didnt affect the motions of the football match. But maybe it affects the future play of a Cann or Nana seeing the display. Maybe it creates derision in the room. Maybe it sets a negative example to americans/foreigners who see captain canada not as engaged in team reactions. All these things do make a difference, and none of us here are really in a position to talk about those things with any knowledge, which is why we get emotion and speculation. it is what it is basically

[Pookie]

He's the best goal scorer we've ever had. The only legitmate scoring threat we've had in 4 years. Double digit scorers aren't exactly easy to find in MLS.

You mean like Buddle, Casey and Cunningham? Finding 'em is one thing. Using them properly is another.

[Whoop]

i think people are taking that back into the dressing room. Sure it didnt affect the motions of the football match. But maybe it affects the future play of a Cann or Nana seeing the display. Maybe it creates derision in the room. Maybe it sets a negative example to americans/foreigners who see captain canada not as engaged in team reactions. All these things do make a difference, and none of us here are really in a position to talk about those things with any knowledge, which is why we get emotion and speculation. it is what it is basically

This.

Also sends a message to any future coaches, GMs that the players rule the roost.

[mastermixer]

Guevara was replaced by DeRo and DeRo can be replaced. He's a good player, but he's not irreplaceable. His character is lacking and only seems to cause problems, twice on the NT and once here. But if people want to ignore that and pretend he didnt have a hand in the dissent, thats their choice. My hero's have character and class.

We need a fresh start next season. New faces, new leadership. Who goes unbeaten for 13 games, then shits the bed? Who needs to beat the worst team and loses 5-0?Thats poor leadership from the FO and the captains. The FO is being changed, timed to change the lockeroom leadership.

I don't know many atheletes that can fit that bill these days.

[Parkdale]

"All you can do is keep moving forward and I'm going to continue to give 100 per cent on and off the field, stay committed like I always have been and do what I do best — play with pride, passion and joy," De Rosario stated.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/stor...#ixzz10wYaTmOn

If he said 'Passion, Pride and Purpose' I'd know exactly who he was talking to.

[Parkdale]

I don't know many atheletes that can fit that bill these days.

[Stouffville_RPB]

I do understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. I do feel that your example of arguably the 3 worst designated players in MLS history is very negative and that it's very reasonable to suggest that 3 (even foreign) DPs could replace DeRo's production.

Pigfynn: DeRo's cap hit is $450,000 or whatever. 3 DP's cap hit would be significantly more. All that to replace DeRo?

Only 1 player in the top 10 in MLS scoring right now is a DP. So bringing in 3 DP's doesn't solve your scoring problems necessarily.

You mean like Buddle, Casey and Cunningham? Finding 'em is one thing. Using them properly is another.

I agree using them properly is important.
- Though Casey never wanted to play here.
- Cunningham had more than enough chances to hit double digits but missed a lot of scoring oppurtunities.
- Buddle was going through probably the toughest times of his life when he was here and football probably wasn't the most important thing on his mind.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

I don't know many atheletes that can fit that bill these days.

A Mr. Ryan Giggs comes to mind.

ANY player who thinks he's bigger than the crest on his shirt needs to go. Period. DeRo seems to have personal issues with just about everyone he deals with. Either everyone else is the problem, or perhaps DeRo does have issues. I'd be more inclined to agree with the latter statement. DeRo is not a team player and besides what he says, he obviously does not play for the team, he plays for a paycheque. Shipping him out is the best thing for the TEAM. You can't have inmates running the asylum. It doesn't work.

12 goals might be easy to make up for if the team starts playing as a TEAM instead of DeRo putting his head down and taking shots from everywhere.

If you doubled Barrett's shots on goal it would be equal to DeRo. If you doubled Barrett's shots on net it would be equal to DeRo. If Barrett kept the same goals per shot rate, surprise!!! He would be equal to DeRo!!! Maybe if DeRo passed the ball more Barrett would have 12 goals and DeRo would have 6 and then we wouldn't have to even have this conversation.

DeRo has to go for the good of the team!

[markus]

Toronto FC facing (another) long, cold winter

“You could take your pick — there’s a lot of distractions going around here,” Barrett said. “But we’re not going to make excuses. When it comes down to it, it’s 11 v. 11 out on the field, and we just didn’t produce.”
Minor details cost TFC

[Stouffville_RPB]

If you doubled Barrett's shots on goal it would be equal to DeRo. If you doubled Barrett's shots on net it would be equal to DeRo. If Barrett kept the same goals per shot rate, surprise!!! He would be equal to DeRo!!! Maybe if DeRo passed the ball more Barrett would have 12 goals and DeRo would have 6 and then we wouldn't have to even have this conversation.

You'd still end up with the same number of goals though.

Take out DeRo's goals and TFC would be 7th in the East and 15th overall on 23 points and wouldn't have even made the CCL.

Is he the best footballer? No. He isn't great off the ball and often times doesn't pass when he should (though this has got much better this season) but DeRo produces on a team full of players who don't. Until others are capable of picking up the slack you can't cut him loose.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

You'd still end up with the same number of goals though.

Take out DeRo's goals and TFC would be 7th in the East and 15th overall on 23 points and wouldn't have even made the CCL.

Is he the best footballer? No. He isn't great off the ball and often times doesn't pass when he should (though this has got much better this season) but DeRo produces on a team full of players who don't. Until others are capable of picking up the slack you can't cut him loose.

Barrett has the same shots per goal ratio as DeRo does. So (hopefully) if he had more shots, he'd have more goals. DeRo seems to be a cancer on any team he's on. Yes he has some talent, but its not worth keeping him in the end.

Frei has done more for this team than DeRo in regards to keeping us in games. Should Frei be a DP too then? I'd say he is more vital to this team than DeRo is. All it takes is one decent DP striker to replace DeRo and the problem is solved.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Barrett has the same shots per goal ratio as DeRo does. So (hopefully) if he had more shots, he'd have more goals. DeRo seems to be a cancer on any team he's on. Yes he has some talent, but its not worth keeping him in the end.

Frei has done more for this team than DeRo in regards to keeping us in games. Should Frei be a DP too then? I'd say he is more vital to this team than DeRo is. All it takes is one decent DP striker to replace DeRo and the problem is solved.

Actually if Barrett and DeRo have the same shots per goal ratio they would have the same number of goals.

I'm not arguing Frei's contribution to the team. I'm saying that replacing DeRo with a DP doesn't mean you are going to score more. That double digit scorers aren't a dime a dozen. Shipping out the best scorer you've ever had isn't the greatest idea.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

Actually if Barrett and DeRo have the same shots per goal ratio they would have the same number of goals.

I'm not arguing Frei's contribution to the team. I'm saying that replacing DeRo with a DP doesn't mean you are going to score more. That double digit scorers aren't a dime a dozen. Shipping out the best scorer you've ever had isn't the greatest idea.

DeRo 60 attempts, 31 shots on net, 12 goals.
Barrett 30 attempts, 15 shots on net, 6 goals.

I'm not sure exactly how that is difficult to figure out?

Wow, peoples undying devotion to DeRo is really amazing... He isn't Messi people, there are PLENTY of DeRo quality players in the world!

[Stencils]

Dero can do amazing things with the ball. Know what? So can the kids in the Roger's fanzone outside the stadium on match day. The question is does he make the TEAM stronger. He certainly does well for himself and on a good day can lift us to a win (see Houston match).

But I'd much rather see a compelling attacking team performance than the De-Ro-Show any day of the week.