Originally Posted by DichioTFC
I didn't know discussion was that offensive to you.
I didn't know discussion was that offensive to you.
I totally get the issues with the FO. And I understand how most supporters feel. I just can't say that I agree. It really is as simple as that.
I'm a struggling student studying hours away, but TFC is the main reason I come home. Not saying that you or anyone else doesn't, but I love the club and I'm not willing to let them go right now.
(Yes, I realize I sound like a sucka)
so I guess if someone isn't willing to always bend over and say yes daddy to MLSE they're not a real supporter. Demanding an opt out for an MLS Cup game in a season ticket package for TFC makes one not as committed to the cause ...... what a jopke.
I can totally see where you're coming from with being forced to purchase the MLS Cup tickets. But to me, it bears greater value than a regular season match. So I really don't have an issue with being "milked". American teams or not, its the pinnacle of our league and I would like to watch it in person, in Toronto. How often does Toronto have sporting events like these any way?
Roogsy man, I've been nothing but respectful towards you, I'm disappointed that the tone isn't mutual.
I'm all for discussing legitimate protests, but for every minor thing to be a topic of protest, it becomes tiresome. Discussion goes both ways, people for it and people against it. I happen to be against this particular protest and one of my reasons for being so (other than the main reason, which is that I do not agree with it) is that it has become tiresome to discuss a protest *again*.
Who cares? The basis of capitalism is that you allow supply to provide for the demand. Here, despite their claims of allegiance to the concept of supply and demand, they completely cheat their way into forcing demand to consume their supply.
Quite simply, they should have rewarded THIS year's season ticket holders with the option of buying tickets for THIS year's MLS Cup as opposed to tieing people's hands into NEXT year's tickets by forcing THIS year's MLS Cup as part of the package of buying NEXT year's tickets.
You know what? I'd like to buy the MLS Cup tickets. It really is a once in a lifetime opportunity. But I am dropping 2 tickets for next year because I am done committing thousands of dollars to a team that can't walk and chew gum at the same time. So my reward? I don't get a chance to buy these MLS Cup tickets despite being a faithful and loyal STH for 4 years. Your scenario basically agreed with MLSE that they should be able to force me to commit to another year of this organization's ineptitude just so I can buy tickets for one event. That's a monopoly. That's tied-selling. That's unethical. That's lacking appreciation for loyal customers.
That's bullshit.
Last edited by Roogsy; 09-22-2010 at 11:02 AM.
Refer to the above comment.
Which protest have you been for discussion at the very least?
This is the problem. Who among us has the right to decide what is a "legitimate" protest to debate and discuss? You'd think the very fact that there has only been one REAL protest would be evidence of the fact that despite all the talk of protests, we only actually put it into action when it really is required. If anything it points to a judicious use of the power of a protest. So people vent about wanting to protest, what does it affect us? Why curtail discussion? At the very least the discussion itself serves to highlight where people's beefs are with the team, organization or system without having to actually protest anything.
Last edited by Roogsy; 09-22-2010 at 11:05 AM.
Pants Off Protest 2010
I'm down for a Pants Off protest. The whole south end takes off their pants in preperation for the reaming the MLSE has given us.
Pants off prtoest 2010!
WHOS WITH ME!!
I got my pants off right fucking now!
This is my biggest sticking point.
Its not like they havent worked out a system in the past to deal with it....the All Star game was optional.
Now its forcing people who dont want to watch that game to deal with the tickets, hopefully not at a loss.
It does hurt perception though, and is having effect on that loyalty that they seem to count so much on.
Yes behind you all the way.
How they *ought* to have done things is debatable and its clear how you feel. I don't feel as impassioned about the invalidation of capitalistic principles as you do. Team bears value for me, the gameday experience bears value for me, I will purchase season tickets. A-B-C.
I'm a consumer. I choose to spend my money how I want. Because I feel its right for me, doesn't mean that it's right for you or for anyone else. I feel next season's package of tickets are worth purchasing. I will buy them. I feel the MLS Cup is worth purchasing as well. I will buy tickets for that too. I'm not concerned about monopolies, the ethics behind it or any other principles. I still find value in the product and I'll let me wallet speak for itself.
better than in front of him.
///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\
In a perfect world the word "pants" would always be followed by the word "optional"
for a second i thought someone was actually going to step up and create a real protest, alas..
Exactly. Which is why I have not been in favour of an organized "protest" in the traditional sense. I personally have made a decision to drop tickets because I feel it's the only real message that can be sent to TFC. Black shirts, banners, screaming outside of Gate 4, they won't care as long as they get the bills out of my pocket. So I am taking a real step and giving them less money because as you put it, I don't find value in the product anymore.
As for what they "ought" to have done, that is exactly why I am "protesting" in this manner. They're decision not to behave in a manner that reflects true appreciation (despite their claims in their marketing emails) is what drove me to this decision. Even for you, there will come a day when you have to decide for yourself if travelling 10,000 kms for a team that doesn't thank you in any way other than to demand more money from you will be worth it. You have your breaking point, others have theirs. Some of us have reached ours.
If people want to bitch about their feelings about whatever stick is currently up their ass, they have all right to do so. I am equally entitled to be bitch about what's bothering me. The cyclical nature of your argument would equate my debating the legitimacy, would it not? Do *you* have a right to decide if my beef is "legitimate"?
Is the lack of protest one of judicial use of power or inability to get things done? Or simply that sometimes, some people only bitch and don't do anything to get things done.
Example: If MoJo had not been fired I was going to show up to the SJ game with 500 pieces of 8.5 x 11 paper with "Fire Mo" written on them and some scotch tape (I wrote it on a thread before he got fired if you don't believe me). Had the original printed and was about to go to Kinkos *the day* he got fired. Needless to say things worked for the best, but this was my protest. This was something I was going to do. I mentioned it once on the boards and didn't bitch endlessly about it. Ranting and raving on and on. I was going to get shit done. *Conversely*, how many of the people that are currently bitching are just going to show up and give MLSE money in the coming days and weeks? But they'll vent endlessly about how they're not going to take it any more. *That's* bullshit.
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24694
short of it: wish to start dialogue about price increase, and protest. tired of discussing it online.
It's not a question of wanting to watch it, it's a question of being forced to buy it. MLSE has failed to produce a playoff worthy team, and they need to fill those seats to honour their agreement with the league and we are the ones who are going to pay the price for their ineptitude.
I've been a season seat holder since day one, and I love my team, but that does not preclude letting the seats go. My life was good before TFC season tickets and it will be just fine after. I will always care about the team's success, but I will not be taken advantage of. Either this situation is acceptable to you or it is not, but that does not speak to your passion for the team, it has to do with your own self worth. I am having a very hard time deciding whether or not to keep my seats knowing that I am being used to make up for MLSE's inability to produce a winner. I promise you one thing: if TFC was playoff bound (which part of me holds out hope for) the Cup tickets would not be part of the 2011 ticket package.
How about we focus more about what is on the pitch????
This is where the disconnect is. If the product on the field was above average almost no one who be moaning and bitching about the price of tickets, MLS finals etc...
The problem is 4 years of mismanagement has caused us to feel that our ROI is not there. I for one potentially see the light at the end of the tunnel. I have dumb blind faith that MLSE will make the right decision with the hiring of a new GM and coach.
@DichioTFC
Im not sure why you are even involving yourself in this discussion then.
Obviously you dont have a problem, and others do. You dont have a solution to the problem that others are having, and you're not able to convince the others that their problem is trivial.
So, why involve yourself? What are you trying to achieve?
Leave placation to MLSE, it's not you who we perceive to be fucking us.
It's going to be a complete and utter shit show.
DI-SASTROUS!
This.
I support your *real step*. I'm all for you if you don't find value in it any more. Go ahead and do your last minute protest and drop your seats in the reds. I can't blame you one bit.
For me, I can't say that I'll reach that breaking point. No matter if TFC are out of the playoffs or not, I'm going to DC on that last game if I my studies allow it. I don't care if I have to skip class, I'll see Arabe Unido on Tuesday at 8pm. I spent 9 hours in a car riding the bitch seat with some NYRB guys so I could support TFC. (Even worse was the drive to Columbus!) But I can't say that I'll have that breaking point because I haven't seen it yet. I still support the Canadiens. I still support the Buffalo Bills. No matter how dark those days got, I've always been there. No matter how dark things get for Toronto FC, I'll be there. Every game.
But that's just me.
It was actually a constructive and positive conversation before it took an ugly turn a couple pages back. I was involved much earlier and my purpose was to facilitate a constructive discussion.
I do have a solution to the problem that others are having. Don't renew and shut the fuck up. It really *is* that simple. Buying the tickets, but not being happy about it, but protesting anger, but still going to every game, but venting endlessly... how is it not tiresome to anyone else?
And I don't.
I see the same poor decision making that went into handing over an expansion team to a completely inexperienced management as I do in this move to raise prices and include a ticket to a game no one wants to go to.
Actually, no, it isn't poor decision making it's complete arrogance, as (sorry, I always see the name as, "Whizzywhig) pointed out.
Or worse, I suppose, is that they might be right. People may have focused so much on the individual they hired the real problem with what they did went unnoticed and uncriticized to the point they don't think they did anything wrong. It's arrogance and a complete disrepsect for the customer.
Blind faith in MLSE? Just look at the Raptors and Maple Leafs. How the fuck can you put faith in a management team that has fucked up these two teams? The Leafs haven't made the play offs in over 6 years and the Raptors have won only one play off series in their 15 years of existence.
Also, they have raised prices each year during a very terrible recession and the product is not any better since they started 4 years ago. This is the final straw that broke the camel's back. It's simple fact they (MLSE front office) don't respect us and are treating us like lemmings. They can go fuck themselves.
frickin funnyI'm down for a Pants Off protest. The whole south end takes off their pants in preperation for the reaming the MLSE has given us.
Pants off prtoest 2010!
WHOS WITH ME!!
I got my pants off right fucking now!
STFU? How is that helping discussion? Tired? Quit. If your message is to GIVE UP (like quitting in a way) ones tickets you should expect a little resistance. People here feel forced a way they would not choose.
Kudos that you were going to do something BTW. Congrats that you are okay with your season ticket package.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
That was 2008, when people just wanted to be inside BMO any chance they got.
This is 2010/2011 where people are starting to realize that the product on the pitch actually matters and unfortunately, MLSE have not delivered.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
