Any Plans on protesting Season Ticket Renewal scam?

[Cashcleaner]

I can understand people are upset about season's tickets going up but some of the arguments are completely lacking in logic or economic rationale. At the end of the day, tickets are just like any other consumer good: books, hamburgers, jeans, cars, vacations, etc. You don't like the price of something? Don't buy it. It's really that simple. If you buy something, you're really saying that, based on its price, it's worth at least that much to you. If you don't think a Big Mac is worth $4.00, you don't buy it.

If we're talking about something like kidney dialysis instead of football tickets, then I might have a problem. But with tickets, you either take it or leave it, simple as that.

I don't think it is that simple.

I don't think I've ever played this card and I don't want to sound full of myself when I do, but I consider myself one of the first few Toronto FC Supporters. I can think of myself and a handful of others who used to talk back and forth on Simon's old forum, long before we even saw the first game at BMO Field. I mean, I remember the pics Parky posted of him breaking into the stadium at night during construction. I remember our first meeting at the Overdraught and thinking that we were all getting in over our heads when we told the TFC reps that we could probably help them sell 50 tickets to 112. Dude, I remember the day like it was yesterday when Brennan was announced as our first player. Back then, I'm sure we all felt like we were taking the first steps down a path that was either going to turn out HUGE or fall apart after less than 5 seasons.

Sorry, I just don't think it's as cut-and-dry as: "you either buy them or you don't".

[menefreghista]

Seriously guys, theres going to be *thousands* of people that want those MLS Cup tickets,

Are you sure about that?

MLS is a league where very few fans travel, even for the Cup final.

I think people are over-valuing the demand for this ticket.

If the demand was as great as people think, they wouldn't be forced on season ticket holders.

[DichioTFC]

Are you sure about that?

MLS is a league where very few fans travel, even for the Cup final.

I think people are over-valuing the demand for this ticket.

If the demand was as great as people think, they wouldn't be forced on season ticket holders.

I'm *very* sure about that. I live in Michigan. People here drive 9 hours to be in Barra Brava in DC, 8 hours to be a NYRB supporter, 4 hours to be a RPB, 3 hours to be in Nordeke. Every week.

Look at cup finals past and see how the make-up of the crowds are, people travel across the country to make it. Don't forget, MLS has been in the states for 15+ years now, people have grown up with it like we've grown up with the NHL.

You see it as being *forced* on you, I see it (from MLSE) as an easy sell to a local customer and (from a consumer's standpoint) either an opportunity to see the best in the MLS or an opportunity to profit (you'll get tickets at cost price, you can flip them for higher than face to unwitting out of towners).

I support you with your complaint, but I hope you don't end up spinning your wheels for nothing when the solution is right in front of you.

[SuperTCP]

My worry about this team is long term. If fans on here who have been in from the start are not renewing their tickets, and prices keep going up, then where the hell is the supporter base going to be in 5 years? it will become highly corporate/family and hardly urban soccer fan at all, and then interest will eventually die and the team will be fucked. We'll become another team with a half empty stadium each week.

I agree 100%, this is my worry too, this and that TFC will become like the Leafs.

[Suds]

I don't think it is that simple.

I don't think I've ever played this card and I don't want to sound full of myself when I do, but I consider myself one of the first few Toronto FC Supporters. I can think of myself and a handful of others who used to talk back and forth on Simon's old forum, long before we even saw the first game at BMO Field. I mean, I remember the pics Parky posted of him breaking into the stadium at night during construction. I remember our first meeting at the Overdraught and thinking that we were all getting in over our heads when we told the TFC reps that we could probably help them sell 50 tickets to 112. Dude, I remember the day like it was yesterday when Brennan was announced as our first player. Back then, I'm sure we all felt like we were taking the first steps down a path that was either going to turn out HUGE or fall apart after less than 5 seasons.

Sorry, I just don't think it's as cut-and-dry as: "you either buy them or you don't".

Well said. For many of us, being a supporter of any football team means a lot more than than buying a ticket to a game. I'm sure there are many on here who are supporters of clubs in other parts of the world and may never buy a ticket to see that team. When supporting these teams we can feel just as slighted when the management/ownership starts screwing with the team or the supporters. Support is not buying a ticket! It's way more than that.

The fact is MLSE has turned it's back on the fans who where there from day one. They constanly use those fans to market the team but they now have no time for them. They clearly feel these fans are too demanding and too hard to satisfy.

My personal example - I have never once heard from my ticket rep. EVER. I have no idea who they are. Not one single personal email or phone call in 4 years to even suggest they give a rats ass how as a customer I feel. Why? Because they don't care. That's why.

[menefreghista]

You see it as being *forced* on you, I see it (from MLSE) as an easy sell to a local customer and (from a consumer's standpoint) either an opportunity to see the best in the MLS or an opportunity to profit (you'll get tickets at cost price, you can flip them for higher than face to unwitting out of towners).

The thing is, it is forced on me. There's no other way to describe it.

And frankly I don't feel I should take the time to sell tickets for MLSE for an $18 profit. I don't even want to waste my time.

I simply want the choice. I have 4 tickets on my account. If I had the choice I would have probably taken 2 MLS Cup tickets. But now instead I'm going to remove 2 tickets from my season tickets.

[NF-FC]

How possible is a second Toronto team?

It's too bad for the new USSF D2 limit on foreign clubs. It seems like the market is ripe for another club. In the mean time, we have the CSL.

[CretanBull]

I agree 100%, this is my worry too, this and that TFC has already become like the Leafs.

Fixed

[KdotOdot]

I'll be selling my seasons strait the fuck up. All of them and buying my tickets of scalpers.

Fuck it. It's not like shit will change. I'll sell my 112's for $1000 to some asshole, then just buy the tickets I want from scalpers on a pay as you go basis.

Fuck TFC right in their fucking asses. MLSE can catch AIDs by contact.

[CretanBull]

In the mean time, we have the CSL.

I really hope the CSL expands to the Durham region as they've said they're interested in doing. They'll have a supporter in me.

[Blowing Bubbles]

I'm *very* sure about that. I live in Michigan. People here drive 9 hours to be in Barra Brava in DC, 8 hours to be a NYRB supporter, 4 hours to be a RPB, 3 hours to be in Nordeke. Every week.

lmao. in all but a couple of regional pairings, "away support" is a couple dozen fans, maybe 100 at best. There are no travelling groups of 2000-4000 ppl who take up a whole end.

So because some random guy drives 8 hours to see his team doesn't mean it's common.

[Suds]

lmao. in all but a couple of regional pairings, "away support" is a couple dozen fans, maybe 100 at best. There are no travelling groups of 2000-4000 ppl who take up a whole end.

So because some random guy drives 8 hours to see his team doesn't mean it's common.

I think the broader point he was making is the MLS has been around for 15 years and there are fans of the league who travel to the MLS cup every year. Kind of like the Grey Cup. You'll find fans from all teams attending because they are fans of the game.

Now, will that equate to a sell-out of BMO? I don't know for sure but based on attendance to past MLS Cups and the fact BMO is a smaller venue it is quite plausible.

[Blowing Bubbles]

You see it as being *forced* on you, I see it (from MLSE) as an easy sell to a local customer and (from a consumer's standpoint) either an opportunity to see the best in the MLS or an opportunity to profit (you'll get tickets at cost price, you can flip them for higher than face to unwitting out of towners).

And if it was so easy for 1000's of season ticket holders to "flip" these tickets for a profit then why the F are they trying to sell 18,000 of them at season ticket holder rates?

Wouldn't MLSE stand to make a hell of a lot more money selling them as stand-a-lone with premium pricing, perhaps at a price higher than the 2x for int'l friendlies?

You're way overestimating what the market will bare for this game. This isn't the fucking Rose Bowl.

[DichioTFC]

lmao. in all but a couple of regional pairings, "away support" is a couple dozen fans, maybe 100 at best. There are no travelling groups of 2000-4000 ppl who take up a whole end.

So because some random guy drives 8 hours to see his team doesn't mean it's common.

The MLS Cup isn't a common event... For example, if NYRB get in, their chance at their team's first title, how many supporters do you think they'll bring? How about Columbus getting an opportunity to win it in our stadium, think that will entice them to come in droves?

Sure, it's not common for 1000s to travel per match (like it isn't with TFC fans any more), but there will be a large number of traveling support for the biggest match in the MLS calendar.

[Roogsy]

I don't think it is that simple.

I don't think I've ever played this card and I don't want to sound full of myself when I do, but I consider myself one of the first few Toronto FC Supporters. I can think of myself and a handful of others who used to talk back and forth on Simon's old forum, long before we even saw the first game at BMO Field. I mean, I remember the pics Parky posted of him breaking into the stadium at night during construction. I remember our first meeting at the Overdraught and thinking that we were all getting in over our heads when we told the TFC reps that we could probably help them sell 50 tickets to 112. Dude, I remember the day like it was yesterday when Brennan was announced as our first player. Back then, I'm sure we all felt like we were taking the first steps down a path that was either going to turn out HUGE or fall apart after less than 5 seasons.

Sorry, I just don't think it's as cut-and-dry as: "you either buy them or you don't".

THIS!

Some of us were there when nobody had even HEARD of TFC. I remember putting down my $50 deposit and everyone around me telling me I was wasting my money and that this was a mickey mouse league that nobody heard of. I remember being the only one excited in a room full of 400 traders about Toronto getting our own team. I remember trying to encourage others into buying into the concept of "Toronto's team". I remember there being only a handful of us on that original board that would discuss how excited we were and counting down the days to various key dates such as the first signing, the first replica jersey being sold and the first match.

These original fans, the ones that took a chance on TFC when nobody else would are the ones that are being shat on and pushed aside for bandwagon jumpers who will NEVER be as supportive, faithful or enduring as the originals. But TFC seem to be ok with that.

So to say to these original fans "buy them or don't buy them" is bullshit. You have no idea how hard it is for me to decide to give up tickets this year. It hurts. But it is more offensive to me to not stand up for what I believe.

[stugautz]

I say protest by not bringing any flags or banners and wearing black. Still cheer for the team, but take the color out of any atmosphere they may try to exploit through marketing.

[DichioTFC]

I think the broader point he was making is the MLS has been around for 15 years and there are fans of the league who travel to the MLS cup every year. Kind of like the Grey Cup. You'll find fans from all teams attending because they are fans of the game.

Now, will that equate to a sell-out of BMO? I don't know for sure but based on attendance to past MLS Cups and the fact BMO is a smaller venue it is quite plausible.

Exactly. People are fans of the league / sport. Suds' analogy is spot-on, there are a lot of comparisons to the CFL and the kind of traveling suppor that show up for 3-down football in November in Edmonton.

And if it was so easy for 1000's of season ticket holders to "flip" these tickets for a profit then why the F are they trying to sell 18,000 of them at season ticket holder rates?

Wouldn't MLSE stand to make a hell of a lot more money selling them as stand-a-lone with premium pricing, perhaps at a price higher than the 2x for int'l friendlies?

You're way overestimating what the market will bare for this game. This isn't the fucking Rose Bowl.

Season ticket holders are 1. an easier sell 2. a local customer 3. a guaranteed sale. I'm sure the face value of a regular ticket will be much higher than the cost price that season ticket holders are getting them for.

There is also long-term residual value is showcasing their ability to sell out BMO for the MLS Cup. I'm sure there are a lot of extraordinary factors that come in to play, like in any business. Look at it from MLSE's perspective.

[menefreghista]

Look at it from MLSE's perspective.

I have. It appears they are worried about selling out the game. So to combat that they are forcing it upon season ticket holders.

Not sure why this isn't plain to see.

[DichioTFC]

I have. It appears they are worried about selling out the game. So to combat that they are forcing it upon season ticket holders.

Not sure why this isn't plain to see.

For all their faults and flaws, sales are never an issue for MLSE. In a market of 6M+ it never will be.

[TFC Cityboy]

The MLS Cup isn't a common event... For example, if NYRB get in, their chance at their team's first title, how many supporters do you think they'll bring? How about Columbus getting an opportunity to win it in our stadium, think that will entice them to come in droves?

Sure, it's not common for 1000s to travel per match (like it isn't with TFC fans any more), but there will be a large number of traveling support for the biggest match in the MLS calendar.

and how will MLSE deal with segregation? The North stand is likely set aside for the non STHs still, but what do we think will happen if 100 Crew/NYRB fans end up in the south stand?

There will be trouble.

[ManUtd4ever]

Everything is relative in terms of the price increase vs the percentage increase. While I agree that this looks terrible from a public relations standpoint because of the current state of the franchise, I don't think MLSE would be foolish enough to try and price the hardcore supporters out of the equation. Based on finances alone, an increase of $1.50 per game will not deter a TFC supporter from renewing seasons tickets. Overall, $20.00/game in and around the supporters section is still the best deal in town. This is purely a matter of principle...

[Beach_Red]

Everything is relative in terms of the price increase vs the percentage increase. While I agree that this looks terrible from a public relations standpoint because of the current state of the franchise, I don't think MLSE would be foolish enough to try and price the hardcore supporters out of the equation. Based on finances alone, an increase of $1.50 per game will not deter a TFC supporter from renewing seasons tickets. Overall, $20.00/game in and around the supporters section is still the best deal in town. This is purely a matter of principle...

Why not? The most "successful" business they run is the Maple Leafs and there are no hardcore supporters among their season ticket owners.

[DichioTFC]

and how will MLSE deal with segregation? The North stand is likely set aside for the non STHs still, but what do we think will happen if 100 Crew/NYRB fans end up in the south stand?

There will be trouble.

I'm hoping for a South American-style soccer riot where they both send hundreds to the hospital and the stand holding them all collapses

[Heathen]

For all their faults and flaws, sales are never an issue for MLSE. In a market of 6M+ it never will be.

Have you been going to the same BMO as we all have this season?

[ManUtd4ever]

Why not? The most "successful" business they run is the Maple Leafs and there are no hardcore supporters among their season ticket owners.

MLSE is well aware that the South end is the bread and butter of this franchise thus far. While there may be incremental increases over the next several years, the most affordable ticket will always be in the supporters section. If anything, it is the other STH's that are being raped and pillaged.

Leaf fans are a blend of corporate suits and the most loyal, hardcore, masochistic supporters in the NHL. They just aren't vocal and don't provide the same atmosphere...

[Suds]

Why not? The most "successful" business they run is the Maple Leafs and there are no hardcore supporters among their season ticket owners.

I think it's a bit different though. The Leafs have a massive dedicated fan base that stretches across North America. With a fan base that large you can sell one or two games to each person and still sell all your available tickets. And at the price they charge most people can only afford 1 or two games. The rest go to corporate buyers.

I'm not sure TFC is anywhere near that and will not be for some time; if ever.

[mclaren]

Principle is certainly a strong factor in me dropping my season ticket for 2011.

One of my favourite ever quotes is from Thomas Jefferson and I think it applies here:
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock."

[DichioTFC]

Have you been going to the same BMO as we all have this season?

Yes, I have seen the empty seats that have already been sold.

90-95% capacity is still *extremely* good for an MLS team that's never made the playoffs and is persistent turmoil.

[Heathen]

Yes, I have seen the empty seats that have already been sold.

90-95% capacity is still *extremely* good for an MLS team that's never made the playoffs and is persistent turmoil.

Not for the CCL games they weren't, anyway empty seats is never a good sign. If people don't use their tickets sooner or later they'll come to the conclusion they're not worth spending the money on anymore and they'll get ditched.

[Section 117]

So what's next to protest after this???? We use the concept of protest way too much for my liking. From the outside looking we look like a bunch of whiny bitches....

We have protested everything under the sun and yet we come up with more things to protest about. IMO even if they froze or dropped the prices some here would want to protest. We come off as very pretensious fans and this I don't like