Are you planning to drop season tickets?

[rocker]

Jack already did. Not sure what is difficult to understand in the scenario he painted?

To summarize: the people who make game-day what it is are being priced out leaving behind only people looking for the famous "atmosphere" but who are simply spectators not participants. When they find the atmosphere is not there anymore, they too will leave and who will be left?

So you're saying spectators (the non-participants) are only there for the atmosphere?

Who will be left? How about the people who are there for the soccer?

I think you are drastically simplifying the various categories of TFC fans. I don't think there are simply two camps.

I fit precisely into the group that doesn't chant. I'm not there to hear Red Patch Boys sing. I'm there for the sport. I'll always be there. People are not that simplistic.

If south enders are being priced out by $20 tickets, then I don't care. Businesses don't price products so that people on welfare or who have to support 4 kids on a single paycheque or who have low paying jobs can afford 4 seats to 22 games. If you cannot afford $20 a game then that's a problem for you, not TFC.

[London]

Why don't you explain it to me?

I find it fascinating that people in the south end value themselves so highly.
"It's all ruined IF I CANNOT ATTEND!" Well, if you cannot attend, it doesn't matter then right? You'll be doing other things while the rest of us are watching TFC.

I also find it fascinating that people in the south end can't afford $20 a game. The "upward spiral" argument is irrelevant for 2011 tickets. If you cannot afford $20 a game you got bigger problems.

my tix are 20 bucks a game plus 30 bucks to drive there 20 times, parking, spending 5 hours getting to and from the match, eating before or after.

it all weighs in on the product on the field not improving and right now has no real direction.

[Roogsy]

So you're saying spectators (the non-participants) are only there for the atmosphere?

Who will be left? How about the people who are there for the soccer?

I think you are drastically simplifying the various categories of TFC fans. I don't think there are simply two camps.

I fit precisely into the group that doesn't chant. I'm not there to hear Red Patch Boys sing. I'm there for the sport. I'll always be there. People are not that simplistic.

If south enders are being priced out by $20 tickets, then I don't care. Businesses don't price products so that people on welfare or who have to support 4 kids on a single paycheque can afford 4 seats to 22 games.

Those that are there for the soccer are also getting tired. All classes, regardless of why you are there are feeling the frustration of this team which is only compounded by unjustified price hikes. Maybe you might not be yet but others are. My impression from friends who are STH, all of whom are NOT in the south stands and have tickets in the pricier west stands are that they will not be renewing. They barely renewed last year. After this year's shitshow, they are definitely out. And that has nothing to do with the "Red Patch Boys". What Jack is alluding to is that TFC always counted on the supporters group to "add" to the game day experience for many people which in many ways justified what they were paying for. With that in danger, there is even less reasons to renew. It really isn't difficult to understand unless you are intentionally being obtuse. Regardless of the reasons why you are there, TFC is making sure that any and all of those reasons have been diminished.

[Super]

TFC with terrible atmosphere would almost be a deal-breaker for me. The quality of football is pretty poor, but at least the atmosphere makes it feel like the genuine experience. You take away the atmosphere and you're stuck with just an overall poor product. I'm betting next year, with the thousands of empty seats, will remind everyone of just how low we've gone from season one.

[rocker]

my tix are 20 bucks a game plus 30 bucks to drive there 20 times, parking, spending 5 hours getting to and from the match, eating before or after.

it all weighs in on the product on the field not improving and right now has no real direction.

I understand. But that's your costs and every individual must assess their costs. TFC can't say "well, we'll price our tickets based on the cost it would take a guy from London Ontario to travel to Toronto, along with all associated costs." I pay 2296 this next year for my seats. I can afford. Not a big deal. I'm not complaining. Am I just some rich prawnie and not a true fan? hmmm... If some guy in the south end is priced out and I'm not, does that make things worse? I guess so, cuz I'm just a nobody.

Also, season tickets are a pretty extreme purchase. you can buy 1 game, 2 games, three games, and so on. you can buy partial packs. You can split the cost with a family member or friend. There are sooooo many options to make it affordable to you. 22 games is massive commitment. It's the most extreme option as a sports fan.

I'm amazed when fans buy seasons tickets to 40-plus Leafs games, or in the old days people would buy 81 games of Jays. 81 games?!?!

[Super]

I fit precisely into the group that doesn't chant. I'm not there to hear Red Patch Boys sing. I'm there for the sport. I'll always be there. People are not that simplistic.

So you could care less if there is a great atmosphere at BMO or not? You honestly enjoy a game either way? I sure don't. And that's the point made by many on here. Call me a purist, but growing up I loved the sound and energy of the crowd at games. A proper football atmosphere is part of the overall game experience, and is part of the fun. Obviously we're all there to watch the football, but just like a concert I have more fun if I'm in a large, loud crowd, than if I'm in a half-empty venue. And trust me, the noise and energy of a full stadium inspires improved player performance as well.

Supporters leaving the stadium should be a concern for all, period.

[London]

^^^well they should LOL

i am just going to drop from 4 to 2 as some times i couldnt even give the tix away, even here.

[Roogsy]

So you could care less if there is a great atmosphere at BMO or not? You honestly enjoy a game either way? I sure don't. And that's the point made by many on here. Call me a purist, but growing up I loved the sound and energy of the crowd at games. A proper football atmosphere is part of the overall game experience, and is part of the fun. Obviously we're all there to watch the football, but just like a concert I have more fun if I'm in a large, loud crowd, than if I'm in a half-empty venue. And trust me, the noise and energy of a full stadium inspires improved player performance as well.

Supporters leaving the stadium should be a concern for all, period.

If it's just "soccer" I am interested in, I will stay at home on Saturdays and watch hours of EPL, Liga and Seria A thank you very much.

[JonO]

If it's just "soccer" I am interested in, I will stay at home on Saturdays and watch hours of EPL, Liga and Seria A thank you very much.

Exactly - anyone who thinks that the crown atmoshpere doesn't add to the gameday experience hasn't been to a leafs game in while...

The quality of the soccer is poor. There is no arguing that. However, the ability to support a local team, going to the stadium and watching live soccer is what TFC/MLS is all about to me... Take away the experience and I'll just watch epl on tv

[Flipityflu]

i'm dropping my season ticket. i'm tired of it. i've supported the club from the begining, but my patience has run dry. i'm angry and upset about it. i have had fantastic times at BMO, but i can no longer support an owner who uses us as a marketing device, then shits on us.

all i ask is this....those of you who are going to renew, please consider holding off until the last minute. maybe it isn't too late to change their mind on this package.

thanks

[Beach_Red]

So you're saying spectators (the non-participants) are only there for the atmosphere?

Who will be left? How about the people who are there for the soccer?

I think you are drastically simplifying the various categories of TFC fans. I don't think there are simply two camps.

I fit precisely into the group that doesn't chant. I'm not there to hear Red Patch Boys sing. I'm there for the sport. I'll always be there. People are not that simplistic.

If south enders are being priced out by $20 tickets, then I don't care. Businesses don't price products so that people on welfare or who have to support 4 kids on a single paycheque or who have low paying jobs can afford 4 seats to 22 games. If you cannot afford $20 a game then that's a problem for you, not TFC.

Sure there are more than two camps. I don't know where I fit, I've been a sports fan for a long time but I was new to soccer with TFC. In fact, I was reluctant to try a new sport but my neighbour was in with almost twenty other guys who bought seasons tickets the first year and when one of them got transferred out west I took over his ticket.

What I really liked about going to BMO was that it was different than other sporting events I've been to in Toronto. And the 'atmosphere' had a lot to do with that. (If I still lived in Montreal I have no doubt I'd have seasons tickets to the Als at Molson stadium. If the Argos played in a small, sold-out stadium I'd be there.)

Now, of those original twenty guys I'm one of only two left and it looks like we won't take the seasons tickets and just pick up tickets for games here and there.

[Super]

If it's just "soccer" I am interested in, I will stay at home on Saturdays and watch hours of EPL, Liga and Seria A thank you very much.

And you'd get a much, much better product as well. I'm all for supporting a properly run club, but if TFC is dead-set on feeding us a perverted version of the sport that I love then I'll have to bow out with the rest of them. It's not about the money for me, it's the principle. This club is run by idiots who do not understand or appreciate the game. That's painfully obvious after 4 years. Now they've proven that they couldn't care less about the fans either - adding to the cost of what has been at best a piss-poor product from day one. So be it - let them ruin the whole thing and then learn from their mistakes when BMO is finally empty.

MLSE would've been much, much better served by lowering the cost of tickets 20% - as an apology for fucking up the last four years. They'd still make a huge profit. At least then more people would go, stay with the club, and potentially be willing to pay more next year. Now, well, as we're seeing, people are fleeing in droves. That means lost revenue in tickets, beer, food, merc, TV, etc., etc.. And MANY of these people are so disgusted that they won't come back - ever. I can't blame them. What a lost opportunity. TFC is run by a pack of idiots - IDIOTS!

But oh well. Maybe I'm the idiot for renewing my ticket. At least I only have the one - if I had more I'd drop them in a heartbeat.

[Mikey]

I think everyone and their dog should go to the academy game at Lamport on Oct 3rd, (well before renewal deadline) see what its like if 1000 turn up (more?), party in the stands, bring the flags, drums, banners and cheer them on.

[Super]

all i ask is this....those of you who are going to renew, please consider holding off until the last minute. maybe it isn't too late to change their mind on this package.

thanks

Yes! Not only that, also do the payment plan. Make it loooong and difficult for TFC to get that money. Hopefully that'll make them sweat a little bit.

I know it's easier to just pay it off and then not think about it, but I think there's a message to be said if we all hold off payment as long as possible.

[DaBandit]

If it's just "soccer" I am interested in, I will stay at home on Saturdays and watch hours of EPL, Liga and Seria A thank you very much.

here here.. it's the entire game day experience for me. the train ride, the buzz on the way to the stadium. the electricity inside and so on...

[Roogsy]

MLSE would've been much, much better served by lowering the cost of tickets 20% - as an apology for fucking up the last four years. They'd still make a huge profit. At least then more people would go, stay with the club, and potentially be willing to pay more next year. Now, well, as we're seeing, people are fleeing in droves. That means lost revenue in tickets, beer, food, merc, TV, etc., etc.. And MANY of these people are so disgusted that they won't come back - ever. I can't blame them. What a lost opportunity. TFC is run by a pack of idiots - IDIOTS!

This is the part that I agree with the most. Although I don't believe a 20% drop was necessary, a symbolic gesture such as a 1% drop across the board would have sent a clear message of considering the fan who has been there from the start and endured 4 years or BRUTAL soccer culminating with this year's puke-worthy product on the pitch. And you know what? They would have generated so much goodwill for that simple and pretty meaningless gesture that most of these conversations probably wouldn't be happening.

Instead, they are threatening to piss off people who once they give up tickets, won't ever sign up again. And let's be honest here, this isn't the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's not like this team has generations of supporters behind it and a culture in this city that would never let it die. If at any point it becomes irrelevant with fans or the media, the effort to bring it back to where it was at the start will be so great, they will be kicking themselves for having ruined it in the first place.

I get that TFC is mostly run by novices in various positions. But you'd think that they'd learn from the mistakes of others. You don't mess with what works. And these guys had something that "worked" pretty much land in their laps from year 1 and from then on decided to make each consecutive year worse and even more distressing is that they are oblivious to it.

[ArmenJBX]

This is the part that I agree with the most. Although I don't believe a 20% drop was necessary, a symbolic gesture such as a 1% drop across the board would have sent a clear message of considering the fan who has been there from the start and endured 4 years or BRUTAL soccer culminating with this year's puke-worthy product on the pitch. And you know what? They would have generated so much goodwill for that simple and pretty meaningless gesture that most of these conversations probably wouldn't be happening.

Instead, they are threatening to piss off people who once they give up tickets, won't ever sign up again. And let's be honest here, this isn't the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's not like this team has generations of supporters behind it and a culture in this city that would never let it die. If at any point it becomes irrelevant with fans or the media, the effort to bring it back to where it was at the start will be so great, they will be kicking themselves for having ruined it in the first place.

I get that TFC is mostly run by novices in various positions. But you'd think that they'd learn from the mistakes of others. You don't mess with what works. And these guys had something that "worked" pretty much land in their laps from year 1 and from then on decided to make each consecutive year worse and even more distressing is that they are oblivious to it.

And I believe this is the very first time I agree with you 100%

[Super]

This is the part that I agree with the most. Although I don't believe a 20% drop was necessary, a symbolic gesture such as a 1% drop across the board would have sent a clear message of considering the fan who has been there from the start and endured 4 years or BRUTAL soccer culminating with this year's puke-worthy product on the pitch.

I honestly don't think that 1% or anything below 20% would be enough to bring back the people who are completely fed up and done with the TFC product. They look at the money spent, and they wonder: "Am I getting value for my dollar"? The answer is obviously a big fat no. On top of that many are offended by the poorly run club, and how we have to pay top dollar for everything - be it tickets, beer, food, or a jersey.

[reggie]

im keeping mine...i love futbol.

[smeghead]

Am i renewing my tickets. Thats a big fat no. Ive found out this year ive enjoyed watching CSL soccer at a tenth of the price.

[Hitcho]

My buddy that I go with is dropping his ticket, strongly considering dropping mine too.

NOOOOO!!!!! Don't abandon 118 Jeffro...

That's my point.

They are selling the tickets based on the atmosphere while simultaneously pricing a lot of supporters out of their seats. So when those supporters give up their seats, the people who want "atmosphere" will move in. But without the supporters the atmosphere will be diminished, thus leading to a downward spiral.

Combined with the upward spiral of prices, it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

I agree that putting a team out there that can compete would help.

Agree with this entirely, but I don't think it will be death in just one off season.

My feeling is that we have now reached the stage where people are dropping "extra" tickets and/or relocating to cheaper ones in greater numbers then before, and more casual fans are dropping tickets. MLSE will be able to fill those (or most of them) from waiting list people who want to get on the ladder. But that well will run dry pretty soon if A) the team keeps failing dismally in the league and B) the club loses its reputation for having a great game day atmosphere (which it might over time). MLSE needs to seriously step up what it is delivering, because a few more years of the same and the fan base will have dwindled to the oint where the waiting list cannot replace the gaps any more.

From season one to this. Madness. Utter madness.

EDIT - I have 2 supporter section pairs, will probably drop one of them. The other one I will keep for a while, but if this keeps up (ie, 225% price increases every 4 years) then even if we win the MLS Cup every season I'll be dropping the remaining pair too.

[flatpicker]

Something to consider:

If there are those of you in higher priced sections that don't want to spend the money on another season,
And there are those of you in the cheap supporter seats who aren't going to renew,
Then the cheap seat people should consider selling their seasons to those leaving the expensive seats.
Because while many may not want to pay for the pricey seats, they may be willing to purchase cheaper tix.

Maybe we should have a thread in the ticket forum where people can state what tickets they are giving up, and what tickets they are looking for (if any).
At least that way, we might get some RPB into the South End to fill some of the spots opened up by those leaving.

Did I make any sense there?

[Beach_Red]

I honestly don't think that 1% or anything below 20% would be enough to bring back the people who are completely fed up and done with the TFC product. They look at the money spent, and they wonder: "Am I getting value for my dollar"? The answer is obviously a big fat no. On top of that many are offended by the poorly run club, and how we have to pay top dollar for everything - be it tickets, beer, food, or a jersey.

From the very beginning people have been making a distinction between the "suburban soccer mom" crowd in other MLS cities and the fans in Toronto. I think even Danny Dichio sai dthat in other cities it was more of a "day out" but real football supporters in Toronto.

So, you're probably right there's not much that could be done to bring back the people who are completely fed up with TFC product. Well, really, all they'd have to do is freeze ticket prices for three years and hire a big-name "Director of Soccer" and DP but there's the problem.

Suburban soccer moms are a low-maintenance customer taking their kids out for a few hours. They're a much easier audience to please. They're ideal for MLSE.

Maybe they'll get to that 14,000 tickets sold per game they thought they'd get in the beginning.

[flatpicker]

Won't someone please put a USL team in Toronto?
(and put a roof on it's stadium)

[gtaguy]

Im going to leave my decision to the last minute. And when i tell the old man what mlse has done to us again he will probably have a bird and i might just end up going alone to the stadium which i refuse to do.. My old man opts out and thats the end of tfc in this household....

[Hitcho]

Maybe they'll get to that 14,000 tickets sold per game they thought they'd get in the beginning.

If that 14,000 number is true and that's what they budgeted for to turn a profit, but they were actually getting 20,000 a game, then why the fuck have they felt the need to gouge the shit out of supporters by placing such massive price hikes on the SSH packages each year?! That is sickening as well as incredibly short-sighted and stupid.

Like that guy on Dragon's Den always says - the dark forces of greed have clouded their judgement... [can't work out how to get a photo of him in, so some techy genius please do the honours, thanks!]

[spark]

I fit precisely into the group that doesn't chant. I'm not there to hear Red Patch Boys sing. I'm there for the sport. I'll always be there. People are not that simplistic.

Why don't you just go to a CSL game then if you are there "for the sport". You could save yourself about $2k and still be "there for the sport".
At this point you sound like an MLSE lackey.

[Joe Kool]

I'm giving TFC one more year of buying my pair of seasons. I can no longer afford my current seats for the full season with the additional cost but making the gamble on the relocation for this year to lower the cost. If that fails and I am stuck in my price level then I will try to sell as many pairs as needed to bring the price down. If that fails then that is me out for the following year unfortunately because I will only make that gamble once then I am out if it doesn't pay off.

[Roogsy]

If that 14,000 number is true and that's what they budgeted for to turn a profit, but they were actually getting 20,000 a game, then why the fuck have they felt the need to gouge the shit out of supporters by placing such massive price hikes on the SSH packages each year?! That is sickening as well as incredibly short-sighted and stupid.

Like that guy on Dragon's Den always says - the dark forces of greed have clouded their judgement... [can't work out how to get a photo of him in, so some techy genius please do the honours, thanks!]

Who? Kevin O'leary?

[Hitcho]

Who? Kevin O'leary?

yes, and that's the exact picture I tried to link in from Google images. PM me the magic formula Roogs...