Today's News,Tuesday,Sep.21
That first article "tale of two tickets" really hits home.
What really justifies these increases?
I have to basically give away tickets I can't use, which makes me think demand isn't what MLSE says.
If you want to see some really interesting figures about ticket prices, check out the current FourFourTwo, the one with the EPL overview. It has a page with the 92 English teams' season ticket prices. TFC would be in the top third.
I agree - it is not fair to compare Man U with TFC ticket prices. Man U have a record of winning, a tradition of being amongst the best in the world (at least over the past 15-20 years) and have the world's best players on the pitch. Bigger stadium? Okay, but land prices are a little different there than here. I think it is a very fair comparison to make.
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mornin d
i dont believe they are talking about increasing ticket prices is it greed or just plain stupidity
wow 2016 and things are looking up --- come on you reds lets go
btw for those who haven't seen it in the paper edition, you need to see the placement of that TFC ticket price story in the Globe. It's most of the front page of the sports section. Probably the most prominently placed TFC story ever in the Globe.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
There is a valid point in the article about Man U, Man U isn't making money. They are in heavy debt, maybe their tickets are too low. TFC isn't the worse in the league as for cost goes... and Toronto is a surprising rich city when it comes to sports... ... spectators, not skills or management. The prices are still high. Who would have thought that the only thing less expensive dollar for dollar in the UK would be Sports.
Man U's problems have nothing to do with their ticket prices - they spend more on a transfer fee for an acedemy player than TFC spends on a year's worth of salaries. Other clubs in England who aren't struggling financially charge much less than Man U.Originally Posted by Kaz
The ticket prices in Toronto don't reflect the costs associated with running the club, they reflect the greed of MLSE.
Man United's ticket prices aren't "too low." Their spending (and that of most top clubs in Europe) is too high. If they had a reasonable salary cap, they could easily make money. Platini's suggestions about debt restrictions for the UEFA CL would greatly help.
TFC's ticket prices are way too high. The players don't get paid any more for the extra games, gameday expenses are small compared with beer sales, the cost per game is actually lower when spread out over 34 games. Not to mention the replacement of a 15% entertainment tax + GST with a 13% HST means 2% extra profit for TFC. The optics look very bad for an increase right now.
Now 1/3 of ticket sales go to the league and ultimately ends up subsidizing teams like Kansas City and Dallas, so it's not all profit for TFC. This is unlike the Premiership where revenue sharing is only for TV rights, not ticket sales. Still saying, though, it's getting to be poor value for money.
The good side, is that scalpers will probably be finally driven from BMO Field, as there will not be much chance that they can make their usual profit.MLSE is taking it all.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-21-2010 at 08:05 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Isn't their debt all through their owners though? If the Glazers weren't mortgaging against the club they'd be running pretty well in the black unless I'm mistaken? (quite possible, I have no interest in them)
Thank you. How could the Globe miss that?
You need to be careful with these averages, though. The big European clubs have complex pricing schemes that reflect the community-owned supporters heritage, but they all have 1000s of very high end seats that would cost more than TFC's best seats.
Also Euro prices are lower because packed stadiums are critical to a business model that depends on big TV ratings. When you're in MLS and don't have TV revenue, and don't have much of a vision on how to get there, then it's tempting just to soak the true believers.
The real point is, MLSE are saying (by how they're acting) that they can push this through because the waiting list is real. I've said before that I don't think it is. This is going to be interesting.
Last edited by ensco; 09-21-2010 at 08:20 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Unfortunately, the article is incomplete. It mentions the most expensive tickets in LA, NY, and Chicago (which are really the markets we will end up being compared with to be honest), but doesn't provide any further information. I'd be much more interested to see how we stack up overall against those clubs than Man Utd...
This is a bit disingenuous, as the exchange rate plays a big part, 2 or 3 years ago, that 931 would have been about $2,000. man u aren't setting their prices by the canadain dollar, so it';s a bit unfair to compare the two.According to United’s website, an adult season ticket for the best seat in the house, for 19 home dates at Old Trafford for the 2010-11 season (including two UEFA Champions Leaguegroup stage matches), is £931, which converts to approximately $1,501 Canadian. Toronto FC, meanwhile, charged its fans a top price of $1,634 to renew season tickets for an 18-game package this season
Bingo. It will be an interesting renewal season to say the least. I also don't think the waiting list is real. At least not for anything priced beyond the yellows...
In the Premiership the visiting team gets a % of the home team's gate as well - unless that changed with the new revenue sharing plan that came into use with the latest TV deal (which is possible).
It's definitely still the case with FA Cup games...smaller clubs who get drawn as the 'home' side vs. a larger club will often elect to play on the road to get the increased revenue for being the 'away' team in a much bigger stadium than their home ground.
But the price in £ is also relative to their ecconomy and people who earn wages in £.
http://www.slate.com/id/2267454/
Debt, Lies, and Cowboys
England's greatest soccer teams and American owners, a match made in hell.
The problem, in a word, is debt. The sales of both Manchester United and Liverpool were structured as leveraged buyouts—the owners borrowed money to finance their purchases, then transferred the debt back onto the clubs. This means, first, that the fans, those obliging trickles of revenue, are effectively being made to buy soccer clubs for owners they despise. It also means the clubs are gushing out millions of dollars each month in interest payments, money that might otherwise be used to help them compete in the cash-maddened upper echelons of the Premier League.
I think the waiting list is real. I'm sure the number is bumped up to make it look like more demand but I think it is a substantial number of people.
That said how many on the list want to pay $2000 for a ticket? I'm on the list and I'll tell you that I have no interest in paying that much for a season seat. How many current season seat holders are willing to pony up that kind of cash on top of what they are already paying?
TFC support is like the Leafs as everyone has noticed and MLSE hit the jackpot with TFC but if they aren't careful people WILL walk away because this is NOT the Leafs.
It is easier to keep the fans that come out than it will be to get them back.
Im going to school in Birmingham this year picked up a single season ticket for a student for 200 pounds.
I'll be sure to let the representative know that when i get my phone call
I have no doubt they have 13,000 (or whatever the number is) email addresses of people who thought it might be cool to find out about season tickets. I aslo have no doubt that a great many of those people have been on the list for years at this point. If given the opportunity for anything more then a supporters seat I don't see many being willing to pay up - long before you get to the $2000 / seat price point.
the owners borrowed money to finance their purchases, then transferred the debt back onto the clubs.
This is the part that has always confused the hell out of me.
I don't care if an owner mortgages himself to the hilt. That is his problem and if he can't come through, well, he screwed up.
But WHY IN THE HELL DOES THE FA ALLOW OWNERS TO TRANSFER DEBT BACK TO THE TEAM??? In what world does this make sense? Why does the club pay the interest payments? Why is the club on the hook for debt an individual owner takes on?
yep. agreed.
I've always said that if it cost $1 to be on the waiting list, it would be cut down to 25% of what it is now.
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The list is real but I'd guess that 80% got on the list in year one when TFC was one of the cheapest and most exciting tickets in town. That's me. Would I buy if given the chance now, even for South End? Not a chance. And that's probably what 80% of my 13000 peers are thinking as well.
LBO 101 - the old owners want $X from the new owner - they don't care if the money comes from his wallet, his savings account, or some other account. The banks chave the power to structue the loan in their favour, but they've rather proved that they don't know shit, as long as their bonus is paid (Northern Rock, AIG, Lehman, Countrywide).
At the end of the day, does the FA have the power to stipulate how much debt a club can take on? If the club makes enough money to pay the interest, can the FA impose a limit? Dunno.
I understand leveraged buyouts, but in North America that debt does not go on to the balance sheet of the purchased organization but rather stays on the balance sheet of the indebted owner(s). Why does it go on the balance sheet of the clubs in England?
First off what the hell do i want to go see an MLS cup live if it does not involve TFC . And now im forced to pay for this shite.
second. We knew some years back that the waiting list was at 14k or somewhere around there and Now they say the waiting list is around 19k.
In what world is MLSE living in don't they know that the financial downturn is still in effect.
third our teams worth is less then 3 million while all these other clubs in europe spend that one one player WTF
BEND OVER GUYS cuase thats where they are giving it to us.
Wrong. Man U could probably charge higher ticket prices and have no significant change in attendance but it's a moot point.
The TV revenue allows them to spend that high. That's something MLS doesn't have, so even to make that bullshit comparison in this article is nonsense.
Hey don't get me wrong I'm not defending the ticket price increase for TFC, I would much rather see a much lower cost on the season tickets, or at least a thank you to those of you who got them, and not raise them this year. But it's MLSE and well... they aren't in it for the love of the game that is for sure.
This is incorrect. Virtually all LBO/private equity transactions, here or elsewhere, have a substantial percentage of the total debt on the acquired company, for the simple reason that banks lend more when they have security on the asset they're lending against directly.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
That sums me up pretty well, and I'm easily in the top 50 on the waiting list. Does the club seriously expect me to pay $950 for a pair of supporters section seats, much less $2,000+ for a pair of light blue tickets or better? Why would I bother when I can't make all of the games anyway. And seeing as how the only discount I got with my last partial pack was the omission of Ticketnazi rape charges, why would I buy one of those either? Screw the platinum and gold lists, I'm going for singles.
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Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !
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