No Playoffs.....Drop in Attendance Next Season?

[Hitcho]

Most people here seem to be cynical or angry, but most seem like they'll at least keep their seats, maybe downgrade, maybe get rid of extras they have.

Problem for FO is, is that cynicism and anger and nose-holding renewal among the more committed supporters, translates to apathy and non renewal among the casual fans, especially at the more expensive levels.

Agreed Dunc, but therein lies the problem. See my post above that MLSE will not tolerate a drop in revenue streams (how could they justify that to the pension funds?) so they will compensate by taking more money from the seats that are sold (ie, the lower priced ones) and concessions, and in typical sleaze ball fashion they will screw the money out of us by fiddling the per game amount and raising the prices for things like the V-Cup games which we are FORCED into buying as part of the season ticket pack.

What would attendance be at the Carlsberg Cup friendly if we were not forced to buy the tickets? About 3,000 probably. But they likely have a deal with Carlsberg to include it on the fixture list and it gives them a guaranteed cash haul from something that would otherwise be an arse bleed.

[KdotOdot]

At the end of the day it's all Canadian Soccer.

If TFC stays around for another 10 years I'll be flabbergasted.

[__wowza]

poor results just thin out the herd and get better fans. . its a fact.

less fans = better fans.

[Hitcho]

For the record, I fall into the category of person who would like to keep my season ticket seats for eternity. I hold some bitterness and resentment towards MLSE but this is counter balanced by all the good things they have done (and let's be honest, that list is pretty long too, not least getting us a team to begin with).

However, there will come a time when I have to consider holding on to my tickets because of the ludicrous price hikes rather than any resentment towards MLSE or the quality of the football. Nearly doubling in price in three years with nothing to show for it other than another blow out in the play off race? WHAT THE FUCK?! I mean think about how crazy that is. If it keeps up, then I will have to let the tickets go, whether I want to or not. And those are south end tickets, there's no down grading price-wise.

[Technorgasm]

At the end of the day it's all Canadian Soccer.

If TFC stays around for another 10 years I'll be flabbergasted.

Bring Back the Blizzard.. . . .

I agree with teh above sttement.
Its still a treat to me to have local ball. I hope that feeling is widespread within thsi group.

Bollocks to the rest.

If your asking questions to do with the Ticketprice vs Results ratio.
Please call:RICHARD PEDDY at 416-815-5400
re: THE TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS

[Cashcleaner]

less fans = better fans.

No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.

[nascarguy]

if mo is still around come mls final time...i say that is a perfect time for a protest.

too late then

[Roogsy]

No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.

I gotta agree with Cash. I know that sometimes "supporters" look down at the regular fan, but I think that is a mistake. We need ALL types of fans and spectators in the crowds. The plain fact of the matter is that there isn't enough of "us" to make up for regular fans should they decide to leave in order to keep this team viable and relevant. To wish regular fans gone is a foolish wish.

[Suds]

No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.

well said

[sampace]

I think that is safe to say, the attendance will drop off...unless they bring a DP who is worth the DP money and will excite the fans...a la Del Piero!

[ManUtd4ever]

No. More like less fans = less fans.

Say what you want about the unwashed masses that many tend to look down their noses at; but we NEED those soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits.

This club will fold like a deck of cards if those "inferior fans" were to suddenly pack up and leave BMO Field for good.

I gotta agree with Cash. I know that sometimes "supporters" look down at the regular fan, but I think that is a mistake. We need ALL types of fans and spectators in the crowds. The plain fact of the matter is that there isn't enough of "us" to make up for regular fans should they decide to leave in order to keep this team viable and relevant. To wish regular fans gone is a foolish wish.

Agreed, and it is the "casual" supporters that are being exploited the most in terms of ticket prices. MLSE will be treading dangerous waters if the trend of years past continues...

[nascarguy]

soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits = leafs crowd

[dupont]

I won't leave because I'm a super(idiot)fan. However, thousands of others that aren't as crazy as me will definitely leave. The prices are too high for the perceived value and not making the playoffs over and over is hurtful to fans that already experience that enough with the other Toronto sports teams.

I'll echo the other statements. I have season tickets in 106 and when I can't go, I have to give them away. No one will pay for them. That shows you how much people think the product is worth.

[Beach_Red]

soccer moms, college hipsters, and Bay St. suits = leafs crowd

Well, sure, at these prices that's what they're going after. It's the only market MLSE is interested in.

But as people have pointed out, other MLS teams charge less for tickets. If TFC had different owners that accepted less profit (not no profit, just less) and they charged less for tickets they'd get different fans -maybe even more.

[jloome]

IF MLSE is like most corporate cultures, the real shame of all of this is the inevitability of these issues -- because even if MLSE folk were reading this thread, and understanding the implication of hardcore fans not willing to buy a seat, they'd be corporate types, protecting their job or career by not saying shit if they had a mouthful.

Welcome to the world of business where, just like government, people succeed in spite of themselves.

[Phil]

Well, sure, at these prices that's what they're going after. It's the only market MLSE is interested in.

But as people have pointed out, other MLS teams charge less for tickets. If TFC had different owners that accepted less profit (not no profit, just less) and they charged less for tickets they'd get different fans -maybe even more.

Well the issue is this: Other teams dont make money like we do, so with the supply demand issue as it is, they will always go for more money. This isnt a phenomenon exclusive to MLSE, this is any ownership group anywhere.

In other markets they will see a decline in demand based off of product results....wins = attendence, loss = empty seats.

Now, present company excluded (as supporters I think most of us will be fighting to keep our tickets) it will be up to people to dump extra tickets or not renew at all in order to actually change this for MLSE. As other have stated, they are sitting on a list that they think will come and buy tickets at whatever price and the reality is far different. This year we are seeing it, wether it be a friendly, concacaf game or just bad weather. The only time it will really hammer home is renewal.

Then we go back to the exact same scenareo....product will *hopefully* improve and people will return. A great example to me is the Jays from say 1990 to now.

[__wowza]

Suds/Roogsy/ManUtd4ever/Cashcleaner:
my response was in regards to technogasms post

"poor results just thin out the herd and get better fans. . its a fact."

hence the "less fans = better fans" comment.

[clc12]

if mo is still around come mls final time...i say that is a perfect time for a protest.

i agree. having a lot of empty seats at bmo on the day of the final will be a slap in the face to MLSE. a nice little protest outside would be great to!

[Roogsy]

IF MLSE is like most corporate cultures, the real shame of all of this is the inevitability of these issues -- because even if MLSE folk were reading this thread, and understanding the implication of hardcore fans not willing to buy a seat, they'd be corporate types, protecting their job or career by not saying shit if they had a mouthful.

Welcome to the world of business where, just like government, people succeed in spite of themselves.

QFFT...

[Beach_Red]

Well the issue is this: Other teams dont make money like we do, so with the supply demand issue as it is, they will always go for more money. This isnt a phenomenon exclusive to MLSE, this is any ownership group anywhere.

Sure, I get what you're saying, but not every ownership group is the same. As JLoome points out, what we have here are a bunch of career corporate employees - there is no public face of this ownership group, no one putting their personal stamp on the company.

We have seen ownership changes make a big difference to sports teams (look at NYRB).

[Phil]

Sure, I get what you're saying, but not every ownership group is the same. As JLoome points out, what we have here are a bunch of career corporate employees - there is no public face of this ownership group, no one putting their personal stamp on the company.

We have seen ownership changes make a big difference to sports teams (look at NYRB).

Agreed and JLoome makes a valid point.

Owners make a huge difference, but I think attendence is directly linked to their level of failure. I try and tell myself that....

[Section 117]

I blame JDG for our season tickets going up..... LOL

On a more serious note MLSE spends money on the team period. If it is spent properly that is another issue.

With respect to prices for next year I can't see the suits looking at TFC and saying let's jack the prices again. The demand is no longer there period. Some of us can't give tickets away. Look at the optional games that aren't included in the season tickets not once was it sold out. They know that the supposed waiting list is all crap they are just trying to boost demand.

IMO this is what they should ticket freeze across the board, there is 0 justification for rasing prices. We have the most expensive average ticket prices in all of the MLS and we are one of the most horribly run franchises in this league. The north end should be priced equivalent to the south end. I would like to know why those seats are more expensive??? This should tame the masses for at least a year where they can: 1. fix this shit show of a front office and 2. hopefully sell out the north end and bring back casual fans. As much we hate the casual fans their money is as good as our and they need to be there to increase revenue

The tag of model franchise is about to go down the drain if MLSE continues to treat TFC fans like Maple Leaf fans. We want continued progress of our squad to become contenders year in and year out not this revolving door of crap that has been our team for three and half years.

I hope Paul Bernie sees the discontent that their core fans have with the prodcut on and off the field and the ramifications of alienating the die hard TFC fans. As if MLSE continues this path I hate to say it but we could either see the squad leave or worse have attendance like the crew or dallas

[Oblio2]

I am just sick of paying Premier League prices for 3rd Division football.
I have 2 pairs of ST. 110 and 127.
Im not sure what I am going to do......but will need to think about this because it's crazy what we pay, for what we get.

[J .]

The bonus of this would be to hopefully get the supporters more concentrated. Maybe the scalpers sell of some seasons in the south or 127 ends.

[Hitcho]

The bonus of this would be to hopefully get the supporters more concentrated. Maybe the scalpers sell of some seasons in the south or 127 ends.

Doubt it. The seats that scalpers will be taking a hit on are the more expensive ones. So if anything, this will make things worse since they will just look to relocate as many pricey seats to the south end as possible.

And the way things sound on here, they may have more seats to choose from than they expected...

[Mikey]

LOL at the less fans = better fans, was waiting for those comments to start. Dallas must have AWESOME fans, they only get 5,000 turning up for a game!! (Even in the all you can eat section with the double wide seats.....)

There is something to be said for being able to see that the emperor has no clothes, and what you are being sold is worthless, but wrapped in a fancy package and priced according to your misplaced loyalties towards what you want, not what you are being given.

[__wowza]

LOL at the less fans = better fans

i thought i established my sarcasm in that comment already.

[Roogsy]

i thought i established my sarcasm in that comment already.

I feel for you Wowza...I understood after you explained. As it happens online at times, sarcasm sometimes loses it's edge on the interwebz.

[Dave67]

Just got an offer from TSN for Champions league tickets at a discount and with no service charge. I'd say ineterst is fading a touch. Has TFC ever offered discount tickets before? I really don't know as I have not needed to buy tickets before so I don't really pay attention to the offers.

[rocker]

Did someone really say in this thread they'd be surprised if TFC is still around in 10 years or did I misread that?
TFC will always be around (and MLS has survived 16 or so seasons under worse conditions than now). They budgeted for 14000 attendance. It would take a shocking loss of support to get to 14000 average for TFC.
Remember: MLS's revenue sharing model means you can survive with even less than 14000 (see Dallas).
TFC could lose 7000 people per game (the equivalent of the whole east stand being completely empty), and still be at the budgeted average.