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    Default Why I think MLS will be better than Mexican league

    Because I'm rather tired of MLS being called bush league and think Mexican league is all this and all that.

    Don't get me wrong. The Mexican domestic league is the better league than MLS right now. But I think MLS will be better maybe in 5-8 yr frame. Here's my reason why.

    -Potential for more money in MLS than FMF
    By wealth comparison, Mexico will never be as rich as US. While MLS has to fight against other major sports leagues for money and exposure, the potential for more money is present in US market.

    -Potential growth of audience in US
    It's no secret that soccer fans in US is growing, starting with grassroots/youth football to World Cup finals viewing of 25million or something. More soccer fans equals more money into league equals better quality product on field.
    While in Mexico, soccer is already number one sport, and there's limited room for growth in audience.

    -Possibility of expansion
    Mexico is pretty much tapped out for expansion of new teams.
    MLS is going strong with Portland, Vancouver and Montreal, 3 potentially strong markets to join in future, with room for even more growth, to possibility of creating a 2nd tier league (a la USL) or even third tier (a la PDL)

    -Star power
    With signing of Beckham, MLS has gained enormous exposure all around the world. This has translated into MLS being able to attract better foreign players, not just in their retirement age as in the past, but those still in their prime.
    It's huge that players like Thierry Henry and Rafa Marquez turned down interest from EPL and other European teams to come to MLS. Marquez reportedly turned down offers from Mexican teams to join MLS.
    With players like Nery Castillo (another Mexican star btw), Omar Bravo (formerly a Chivas Mexican start), even guys like Boskovic, Mista willing to give MLS a shot, MLS has been able to attract more variety of foreign players. While Mexican league has stuck primarily with Hispanic/South American. This is probably due to no language barrier between Hispanic countries. However, US offers better quality of life than Mexico. Trying to raise a family in Mexico right now... It's not a pretty thought.

    -Emergence of US domestic players
    With better performance of USMNT in World Cups, you notice the quality from individual players since 94 WC. While there are definite gaps in youth programs and quality of coaching at all levels, this is improving, as more money is invested into training and youth academies.
    Better US domestic players translates into better product overall for MLS.
    It remains to be seen just how much more money is going to be invested in Mexican leagues, and if Mexico's performance in World Cups are any indication, there seems to be a stagnation.

    I'm excited for MLS, because I see a lot of potentials. Of course there is always room for improvement and the quality isn't quite there yet, but I'm happy the direction MLS is going, and I really believe that MLS will be the best domestic league in CONCACAF

    /rant

    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Very well put Yohan!

    Even though Toronto is not an attractive city LA or NY and we might not get the big fishes like Henry or Becks I am more than happy to settle for guys like Mista who come in and do their job and don't generate too much unnecessary attention to the club. Club saves money, club gets a solid player and FO doesn't jack up ticket and beer prices.
    06-18-09 i was there

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    I think the big intangible is interest. Soccer fans in Latin countries, similar to a lot of the European nations, are born with a soccer ball at their feet and soccer on the TV / radio. In the States, the competition for the sports' consumer's dollar and time is so intense.

    If the US soccer fan changes his interest from the EPL / Liga towards MLS and stays onboard, the potential for growth is there.

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    I'd be surprised if the economic Gulf between the leagues was bridged in a span of 5-8 years. Someone once asked Ives how quickly a salary cap-less MLS would catch up to Mexico, he said something two years.

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    nice thing is, due to the sheer size of the american population and wealth, complete devotion to the sport isnt necessary for the MLS to become one of the top global leagues
    Last edited by dclaro; 08-07-2010 at 01:41 AM.

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    It would be interesting to post this on BS, and see how our American friends react.


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    We can only dream...far from becoming a reality anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    It would be interesting to post this on BS, and see how our American friends react.
    On BS, they'd probably say the MLS is already way better than the Mexican league.

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    For all of its warts, MLS has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. Granted, there's still a way to go but I would really like to see this league establish itself as one of the marquee leagues in CONCACAF.

    Football in the United States (Canada is at least a generation behind) is approaching a sort of critical mass in terms of development setup, coaching standards and playing standards that are capable of giving the rest of the world something to think about.

    My only fear is that American Network television gets interested enough to start fucking with the very structure of the game itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Because I'm rather tired of MLS being called bush league and think Mexican league is all this and all that.

    Don't get me wrong. The Mexican domestic league is the better league than MLS right now. But I think MLS will be better maybe in 5-8 yr frame. Here's my reason why.

    -Potential for more money in MLS than FMF
    By wealth comparison, Mexico will never be as rich as US. While MLS has to fight against other major sports leagues for money and exposure, the potential for more money is present in US market.

    -Potential growth of audience in US
    It's no secret that soccer fans in US is growing, starting with grassroots/youth football to World Cup finals viewing of 25million or something. More soccer fans equals more money into league equals better quality product on field.
    While in Mexico, soccer is already number one sport, and there's limited room for growth in audience.

    -Possibility of expansion
    Mexico is pretty much tapped out for expansion of new teams.
    MLS is going strong with Portland, Vancouver and Montreal, 3 potentially strong markets to join in future, with room for even more growth, to possibility of creating a 2nd tier league (a la USL) or even third tier (a la PDL)

    -Star power
    With signing of Beckham, MLS has gained enormous exposure all around the world. This has translated into MLS being able to attract better foreign players, not just in their retirement age as in the past, but those still in their prime.
    It's huge that players like Thierry Henry and Rafa Marquez turned down interest from EPL and other European teams to come to MLS. Marquez reportedly turned down offers from Mexican teams to join MLS.
    With players like Nery Castillo (another Mexican star btw), Omar Bravo (formerly a Chivas Mexican start), even guys like Boskovic, Mista willing to give MLS a shot, MLS has been able to attract more variety of foreign players. While Mexican league has stuck primarily with Hispanic/South American. This is probably due to no language barrier between Hispanic countries. However, US offers better quality of life than Mexico. Trying to raise a family in Mexico right now... It's not a pretty thought.

    -Emergence of US domestic players
    With better performance of USMNT in World Cups, you notice the quality from individual players since 94 WC. While there are definite gaps in youth programs and quality of coaching at all levels, this is improving, as more money is invested into training and youth academies.
    Better US domestic players translates into better product overall for MLS.
    It remains to be seen just how much more money is going to be invested in Mexican leagues, and if Mexico's performance in World Cups are any indication, there seems to be a stagnation.

    I'm excited for MLS, because I see a lot of potentials. Of course there is always room for improvement and the quality isn't quite there yet, but I'm happy the direction MLS is going, and I really believe that MLS will be the best domestic league in CONCACAF

    /rant
    Agreed on all points...

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    Quote Originally Posted by koryo View Post
    For all of its warts, MLS has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. Granted, there's still a way to go but I would really like to see this league establish itself as one of the marquee leagues in CONCACAF.

    Football in the United States (Canada is at least a generation behind) is approaching a sort of critical mass in terms of development setup, coaching standards and playing standards that are capable of giving the rest of the world something to think about.

    My only fear is that American Network television gets interested enough to start fucking with the very structure of the game itself.
    You are not alone,I'm sure many of us fear that, if MLS becomes really big in US that's the problem#1.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Quote Originally Posted by koryo View Post
    For all of its warts, MLS has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. Granted, there's still a way to go but I would really like to see this league establish itself as one of the marquee leagues in CONCACAF.

    Football in the United States (Canada is at least a generation behind) is approaching a sort of critical mass in terms of development setup, coaching standards and playing standards that are capable of giving the rest of the world something to think about.

    My only fear is that American Network television gets interested enough to start fucking with the very structure of the game itself.
    I'd argue it is a marquee league behind Mexico..

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    I agree with everything you said except for the timeline.

    You didn't explain why this would take only 5-8 years. 5 years is a very short period of time, like the length of 1 TV contract.

    I mean to make it in 5 years the league would have to be growing its revenue like 50% a year ...... do you really think that's going to happen?

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    MLS will only be better than Mexican league when it's teams/players/spending are on par with a bigger euro league (say, the Bundesliga)

    The grassroots interest is already there.

    I say it's 5 years away.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    One of the challenges to overcome is the fact the Mexican League is drawing a lot of its revenue from the United States. The Mexican League is a ratings monster and crushes everything else. There are an estimated 40 million mexicans in the states and they follow the league the way canadians follow the NHL. Tapping this market is the key to MLS generating legit sponsorship and TV revenue. It also would help if they were somehow able to restrict the amount of Mexican league soccer on tv. There's so much on that it's hardly and room left on the dial for hispanics to care about anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blowing Bubbles View Post
    I agree with everything you said except for the timeline.

    You didn't explain why this would take only 5-8 years. 5 years is a very short period of time, like the length of 1 TV contract.

    I mean to make it in 5 years the league would have to be growing its revenue like 50% a year ...... do you really think that's going to happen?
    i'm not sure if you watched MLS before TFC, but the quality of the league has improved tremendously. This is despite the salary cap hampering foreign player signings. Just 3 years ago, before Beckham, you would have never imagined Henry would play in MLS. Or even guys like Collins John or Fredy Montero, potential young stars wanting to give MLS a shot.

    ugh. 3am. i'll finish this post later

    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    -Possibility of expansion
    Mexico is pretty much tapped out for expansion of new teams.
    MLS is going strong with Portland, Vancouver and Montreal, 3 potentially strong markets to join in future, with room for even more growth, to possibility of creating a 2nd tier league (a la USL) or even third tier (a la PDL)
    As much as I would love to see MLS use a single table, multi tier league format with relegation and promotion....that will never fly with the yanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alixir View Post
    As much as I would love to see MLS use a single table, multi tier league format with relegation and promotion....that will never fly with the yanks.
    +1

    No professional sport is structured and will never be structured with relegation/promotion system in the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by koryo View Post
    For all of its warts, MLS has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. Granted, there's still a way to go but I would really like to see this league establish itself as one of the marquee leagues in CONCACAF.

    Football in the United States (Canada is at least a generation behind) is approaching a sort of critical mass in terms of development setup, coaching standards and playing standards that are capable of giving the rest of the world something to think about.

    My only fear is that American Network television gets interested enough to start fucking with the very structure of the game itself.
    walking along singing its song....walking in a MLS wonderland!!!!......

    there's onlllllyyyyy..ONEEEEEEE~~

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    Dude you are DREAMING and drinking the kool-aid if you think MLS is going to surpass the Mexican League in such short time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    Because I'm rather tired of MLS being called bush league and think Mexican league is all this and all that.

    Don't get me wrong. The Mexican domestic league is the better league than MLS right now. But I think MLS will be better maybe in 5-8 yr frame. Here's my reason why.

    -Potential for more money in MLS than FMF
    By wealth comparison, Mexico will never be as rich as US. While MLS has to fight against other major sports leagues for money and exposure, the potential for more money is present in US market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    The Mexican League is the RICHEST league outside of Europe.
    MLS is nowhere even CLOSE.
    Look at the team salaries b/w an MLS squad and your mid-league team Mexican squad. It's going to be a HUGE difference.
    -Potential growth of audience in US
    It's no secret that soccer fans in US is growing, starting with grassroots/youth football to World Cup finals viewing of 25million or something. More soccer fans equals more money into league equals better quality product on field.
    While in Mexico, soccer is already number one sport, and there's limited room for growth in audience.
    True, it has sort of capped in Mexico, but Mexicans look at soccer as a part of life, and not as a "recreational sport" like the US. Just because you have 50million people participating in the sport, doesn't translate into fans for MLS. Don't forget the "eurosnob" factor. Mexico doesn't have that problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    -Possibility of expansion
    Mexico is pretty much tapped out for expansion of new teams.
    MLS is going strong with Portland, Vancouver and Montreal, 3 potentially strong markets to join in future, with room for even more growth, to possibility of creating a 2nd tier league (a la USL) or even third tier (a la PDL)
    Relegation and promotion. 'nuff said. (even though I'm not a fan of it)
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    -Star power
    With signing of Beckham, MLS has gained enormous exposure all around the world. This has translated into MLS being able to attract better foreign players, not just in their retirement age as in the past, but those still in their prime.
    It's huge that players like Thierry Henry and Rafa Marquez turned down interest from EPL and other European teams to come to MLS. Marquez reportedly turned down offers from Mexican teams to join MLS.
    With players like Nery Castillo (another Mexican star btw), Omar Bravo (formerly a Chivas Mexican start), even guys like Boskovic, Mista willing to give MLS a shot, MLS has been able to attract more variety of foreign players. While Mexican league has stuck primarily with Hispanic/South American. This is probably due to no language barrier between Hispanic countries. However, US offers better quality of life than Mexico. Trying to raise a family in Mexico right now... It's not a pretty thought.
    Yes, the current situation is scary, but futbol players can afford security.

    But how many former Euro stars have we seen come for a "holiday" to MLS?

    Mexicans having only-Spanish not a negative. It is the 2nd most spoken language in the world...
    if anything, Mexican immigration rules are a greater hurdle.
    They like foreigners (more like their $$$), but good luck getting residency, let alone citizenship.
    Makes the Arizona deportation debate look tame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    -Emergence of US domestic players
    With better performance of USMNT in World Cups, you notice the quality from individual players since 94 WC. While there are definite gaps in youth programs and quality of coaching at all levels, this is improving, as more money is invested into training and youth academies.
    Better US domestic players translates into better product overall for MLS.
    It remains to be seen just how much more money is going to be invested in Mexican leagues, and if Mexico's performance in World Cups are any indication, there seems to be a stagnation.
    The USMNT has improved. No denying that.
    The US is playing catch up as far as investment $$ is on the club side.
    Just look at what MLS teams are worth vs. Mexican clubs.

    TV ratings in Mexico are any MLS Execs dreams! MLS can barely get a TV audience.
    Look at ESPN, they scaled their coverage of MLS back. That's where the real $$$ is. Not "2 for Tots" family night...
    Until MLS pulls out of dead markets *Clownbus, Salt Lake City* it's hard to take the league serious on an comparative level to the Mexican League.

    Why do you think MLS is catering to the Hispanic market? Because they will be more likely to follow the league vs. the Anglo market.
    Where do the majority of these Hispanics come from? Mexico.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    I'm excited for MLS, because I see a lot of potentials. Of course there is always room for improvement and the quality isn't quite there yet, but I'm happy the direction MLS is going, and I really believe that MLS will be the best domestic league in CONCACAF
    /rant
    Indeed, it'll be interesting to see how things pan out. I hope MLS improves, but to surpass the Mexican League is a WORLD away.

    How about getting EVERY MLS team into their own SSS and out of playing in caverns, following the FIFA Calendar and FIFA dates and having MLS teams consistently do well in the CCL. Only then we (and the rest of the world) can take the league a bit more seriously.
    Last edited by SilverSamurai; 08-07-2010 at 08:26 PM.

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    "My only fear is that American Network television gets interested enough to start fucking with the very structure of the game itself"

    FIFA would NEVER allow it...and the Americans wouldn't risk becoming a world wide laughing stock...I think MLS is safe from Network tampering....oh and by the way SPANISH is NOT the 2nd most spoken language....English & Mandarin are the top 2, and French may also be more popular...

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    Money wise, USA will beat Mexico any day. If we get rid of the salary cap there is no reason we can't spend the same amount on Toronto FC as we do with the Leafs.

    Star power, MLS for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by maninb View Post
    "My only fear is that American Network television gets interested enough to start fucking with the very structure of the game itself"

    FIFA would NEVER allow it...and the Americans wouldn't risk becoming a world wide laughing stock...I think MLS is safe from Network tampering....oh and by the way SPANISH is NOT the 2nd most spoken language....English & Mandarin are the top 2, and French may also be more popular...
    Mandarin is number one in the world followed by English and spanish. French is 9th. Hindi and Russian round out the top 5. I always say never say never, but footbol to Mexican/latin population is like hockey to a Canadian. Actually, it is probably even closer to their hearts than hockey to Canadians. Although the latin population is the fastest growing in the US there interest and loyalties stay south of the boarder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maninb View Post
    "My only fear is that American Network television gets interested enough to start fucking with the very structure of the game itself"

    FIFA would NEVER allow it...and the Americans wouldn't risk becoming a world wide laughing stock...I think MLS is safe from Network tampering....oh and by the way SPANISH is NOT the 2nd most spoken language....English & Mandarin are the top 2, and French may also be more popular...
    Mandarin is #1.
    Spanish #2.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ative_speakers
    Sure English is becoming the new lingua franca, not denying that at all.

    French is not that popular anymore. Used to be a diplomatic language, but outside of Europe and for the most part Quebec, you don't need it. Sure their are a few Caribbean nations where people speak it and African nations but it's not very popular overall.
    I personally still want to improve my French since it is the other official language in Canada, but in terms of job prospects, outside of Canada, Spanish is much more useful.
    Just look at it historically. The biggest empires in the world were the Spanish and English, thus their influences spread wider. The French were never really able to get their act together. Then again looking at some of the reasons why (not really caring much about Quebec, selling Louisiana which I think was a boneheaded move, constant Revolutions, breaking the bank in helping the USA break from Britain) certainly didn't help them.

    And this little bit will blow your mind: Spanish is the fastest growing language in Canada.

    But back to the topic. I don't think the networks will try to mess with it. Garber finally has MLS focusing on footy fans and not families entirely. Sure their is still the family night promo you see on the US broadcasts and will be for sometime but things are changing.
    But to surpass the Mexican League, it will NOT happen in 5-8years. I would guess at the soonest, 15-20. The TV revenue is simply not there.

    And I'm saying Spanish speakers, not Latin (no 1 speaks that) or Latin Americans/Latinos which also includes Portuguese and French to an extent. JUST Spanish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyBaldX View Post
    Money wise, USA will beat Mexico any day. If we get rid of the salary cap there is no reason we can't spend the same amount on Toronto FC as we do with the Leafs.

    Star power, MLS for sure
    Please tell me you're kidding? The Leafs could probably support a 100 million $ payroll.

    They have 2x as many home games, at a much higher $/ticket, with insane corporate sponsorships, national TV contract and local TV contracts.

    The question is - if there was no cap, what could TFC reasonably spend on player wages?

    My thinking is something like 8-10 MM/yr.

    So now we have a real problem. Because a team like NYRB or LA can get up to 8-10 MM in payroll by bringing in euro uber-stars, but we'll never attract those same names.

    So the best we can do is max out the cap and get DP's like Mista and JDG .... total spending at best around 5 MM.

    The best thing that could happen to TFC would be a luxury tax/DP hybrid so we could spend the same amount as NY or LA but do it by spreading it over the entire roster ...... which would actually help tremendously for CCL.

    And someone said earlier that in 5 years this league will have as big payrolls as the Bundesliga?

    wtf is going on ...... please tell me everyone in here who is betting on this insane explosion in MLS revenue is just levelling us all and having a laugh?

    How the fuck we do we go from $3 mill salary caps to 50 mill euro payrolls in 5 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary Canuck View Post
    It also would help if they were somehow able to restrict the amount of Mexican league soccer on tv. There's so much on that it's hardly and room left on the dial for hispanics to care about anything else.
    how about we get the CRTC to ban the EPL, you know, for the good of the local sports team

    If only those eurosnobs didn't have a choice ..... surely they would follow us!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverSamurai View Post
    How about getting EVERY MLS team into their own SSS and out of playing in caverns, following the FIFA Calendar and FIFA dates and having MLS teams consistently do well in the CCL. Only then we (and the rest of the world) can take the league a bit more seriously.
    You mean during from August to (let's say) April? Yeah that's suicide. The MLS would have even fewer viewers during NFL season and by the time April comes baseball starts up.

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    The Russian league runs from March to November and they don't seem to have any problems. In fact, they're an up and coming league.

    Same with the J-League. It runs from March to December.

    MLS would get battered by the NFL, NBA, NHL and to an extent by the ending of MLB and beginning of MLB.

    And don't forget the weather in some of the more northern teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC USA View Post
    You mean during from August to (let's say) April? Yeah that's suicide. The MLS would have even fewer viewers during NFL season and by the time April comes baseball starts up.
    I agree. I think that MLS would fall behind if it was on in the winter...

    Its unfortunate because I wouldn't mind, but the league would get zero coverage and be bumped off many of the networks they're currently on...

    What I think the league should do is expand the time frame of the season, start a little earlier and finish a little later - doing that to have the league respect FIFA blackout dates...

    Also, the soccer specific stadiums are a must as well. Playing in huge NFL stadiums looks bush league. Its bad enough Columbus is 60% empty in a 22,000 seat stadium, but when you have teams with decent crowds looking empty because there's 80,000 seats it hurts the league image...

    Carts...
    "...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."


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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC USA View Post
    You mean during from August to (let's say) April? Yeah that's suicide. The MLS would have even fewer viewers during NFL season and by the time April comes baseball starts up.
    Actually I don't think MLS would have to really make all that many changes in respects to FIFA dates.
    Say a FIFA date falls from Fri-Sun. On that week push the league games to say Wed-Thurs.
    Yes you'll have 4-5 times/season where you have 2 games/week but it's not a deal breaker. Problem is a LOT of teams aren't the main tenants in their stadiums, which is why SSS are crucial.
    The GC might be a big tougher, but it really only lasts 2-3 weeks tops I think.
    Take a week and half long break during the group stage and quarter finals. Then simply change the TV schedule so you don't have overlapping games.
    Since SUM runs the GC it's doable.

    Yes, their is still the issue of training camps, but I think its reasonable for a player to fly back and forth if it's a quick 2-3hr flight. Not like it's a permanent thing.

 

 

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