A new Canadian Soccer League

[razor787]

With Ottawa, Victoria, and Hamilton joining NASL, and Montreal and Vancouver Joining MLS, I think that its about time to start putting thought into creating a league, somewhat like MLS, in Canada.

Im not saying in the next year or two, but creating a league takes time, and there would need to be information given to the cities about what the Canadian League will attempt too accomplish.

What would you all think if TFC, Vancouver, and Montreal pulled out of MLS in 5-6 Years time, and joined a Canadian League? Think we would be able to bring in talent similar to MLS, or do you think the league would fall on its face?

[J .]

Face plant

[MartinUtd]

Radically Canadian Soccer.

I like the sound of that.

[rocker]

we'll get better soccer by staying in MLS.

there's just more money going around MLS.

plus, the Canadian league would then have to compete with MLS for players, and MLS would win.

[jaxul]

It would be nice to have a league of our own but then it would be kind of the same as the NFL vs CFL...the Canadian league will always fall second in everything.

[Beach_Red]

we'll get better soccer by staying in MLS.

there's just more money going around MLS.

plus, the Canadian league would then have to compete with MLS for players, and MLS would win.

Is the future of MLS so certain? It seems to be a given that MLS will continue to grow and that soccer will become one of the top four sports in the US.

In Canada soccer doesn't have to compete with college sports or the NFL and outside of Toronto it doesn't have to compete with baseball or the NBA either. Soccer could become as succesful as the CFL in Canada - solid TV ratings, good attendance and $4.5 million dollar payrolls.

It's possible that soccer in Canada will actually be held back by being too closely tied to soccer in the USA if it doesn't break through there.

[Beach_Red]

It would be nice to have a league of our own but then it would be kind of the same as the NFL vs CFL...the Canadian league will always fall second in everything.

Do you think that would be the case if there was a Canadian and a US hockey league?

[Cashcleaner]

This Canada we're talking about. Therefore, our constant attitude of assumed inferiority will sabotage any aspirations we might have in these regards. Sucks, but it's true. Perhaps the closest we would get is a division of MLS of our own?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Defeatists. Well not all of you but what we got to see is the CSA, The V's somebody sponsor a final or tourney end of year for the CSL vs the PCSL to decide a Canadian champion at that level. Then we get a crossover like the first years of Lord Stanley and Lord Grey. Let it grow and hopefully you'll get semi leagues in the praries and East Coast.

I love to see the day when you have what's in London right now. Which team do you support first? A (and this is what it should be)

Canadian Soccer Football League

team or a part of the American Soccer pyramid MLS, NASL team?

[Whoop]

Don't we have the same with Toronto FC and the various CSL/USL teams in the city?

[Fort York Redcoat]

To an extant Whoop but MLS to CSL has proven not to be competition for each other IMO. Once you get to USL or NASL it's something of a choice.

Wait you weren't counting the Lynx were you? They went to PDL first year of TFC. I can't call that competition. Besides they played in a different city.

[Shway]

ummmm.....when canada has their own professional hockey league first, then after we can talk about soccer, but for now .................................................. ...



MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER it is

[DichioTFC]

A Canadian soccer league is a great idea, but it should be a partner to the MLS, not a competitor.

ummmm.....when canada has their own professional hockey league first, then after we can talk about soccer, but for now .................................................. ...



MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER it is

OHL... QMJHL... WHL...

Granted they're not professional, but they attract largescale attention

[jaxul]

Do you think that would be the case if there was a Canadian and a US hockey league?

Hard to say...I would be inclined to say yes, but the gap would be much smaller between the two leagues. Also in order to have a league of any kind you should have at least 10 teams competing and even that is really stretching it. I am not sure Canada can support 10 NHL level teams, since we have already lost a couple.

[ag futbol]

The thing always gets lost in these (absolutely crazy) debates is that outside of a few urban areas in Canada the appetite for a Canadian franchise is pretty small. I have my doubts some of these recently announced teams will have long lives (but i hope they do well).

It just doesn't enter some peoples minds that in terms of interest Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are on COMPLETELY different levels from everyone else.

A Canadian league would be 7 or 8 teams continually losing money with low budgets and interest levels to match. Let's stick to MLS, and avoid the visit down to crazy town.

[ilikemusic]

ummmm.....when canada has their own professional hockey league first, then after we can talk about soccer, but for now .................................................. ...

MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER it is

OHL... QMJHL... WHL...

Granted they're not professional, but they attract largescale attention

I love when people refute their own suggestion.

Attempting to create a Canadian Soccer League would be suicide.

Like Guerro said, when we can develop our own professional Canadian Hockey League, only then would I entertain the thought of a Canadian professional anything else.

I mean, if we cant run our own league in a sport where 20,000 people, in 6 different cities will pay through the nose 41 nights a year to watch the best players in the world (who happen to be largely Canadian) compete then we have absolute no business even entertaining the thought of a professional Canadian Soccer League. If it were attempted, it would play out exactly like the present CSL. It would kill professional soccer in Canada for another 30 years.

Its annoying that people even suggest this.

[Keystone FC]

With Ottawa, Victoria, and Hamilton joining NASL, and Montreal and Vancouver Joining MLS, I think that its about time to start putting thought into creating a league, somewhat like MLS, in Canada.

Im not saying in the next year or two, but creating a league takes time, and there would need to be information given to the cities about what the Canadian League will attempt too accomplish.

What would you all think if TFC, Vancouver, and Montreal pulled out of MLS in 5-6 Years time, and joined a Canadian League? Think we would be able to bring in talent similar to MLS, or do you think the league would fall on its face?

I KNEW this would come up.
First off I would LOVE to see a Canadian national soccer league, BUT now is not the time for it nor in 5-6 years.
Maybe 10-20 (it's beginning to sound like a prison term).

With the news of the possible addition of Hamilton, Victoria, and Ottawa to NASL within the next 3-4 years it will bring the number of pro teams in Canada to 7 (people keep forgeting Edmonton FC).
Is that enough for a soccer league? Yes, BUT not for Canada and especially not for soccer in Canada.

Plus, these clubs (minus Vancouver, TFC, and Montreal) are coming in at the Div. II level so their revenue is not at MLS standards...yet. Once ALL of these clubs with additional clubs in say; Calgary, Winnepeg, Saskatoon or Regina, a second club in Toronto, Quebec City, and Halifax have reached current MLS level of revenue, sponsorships, TV coverage, media attention, and fan support THEN Canada will have a league of it's own.

[rocker]

Is the future of MLS so certain? It seems to be a given that MLS will continue to grow and that soccer will become one of the top four sports in the US.

In Canada soccer doesn't have to compete with college sports or the NFL and outside of Toronto it doesn't have to compete with baseball or the NBA either. Soccer could become as succesful as the CFL in Canada - solid TV ratings, good attendance and $4.5 million dollar payrolls.

It's possible that soccer in Canada will actually be held back by being too closely tied to soccer in the USA if it doesn't break through there.

Given that MLS is so conservatively run, I don't see why there'd be any doubts about its continued existence. The doubts may be about its potential to become a top league in NA or the world, but if it's survived since 1996 in tough conditions, I don't see it dying any time soon.

Regarding the CFL, I wouldn't want a Canadian league if it's just like the CFL. The CFL isn't much. 8 teams is a joke. They only play 18 games or so. The level of quality is not as good as the NFL.

I don't think a new CSL would come close to being as competitive as MLS. And some people on this board already complain about the quality of MLS. It would be hampered financially and competitively.

Plus, I like seeing American teams come to town.

[Keystone FC]

In Canada soccer doesn't have to compete with college sports or the NFL and outside of Toronto it doesn't have to compete with baseball or the NBA either. Soccer could become as succesful as the CFL in Canada - solid TV ratings, good attendance and $4.5 million dollar payrolls.

It's possible that soccer in Canada will actually be held back by being too closely tied to soccer in the USA if it doesn't break through there.

This is true but from what I see in Canada it's not a fight against other leagues but a tussle for sponsorship dollars and people willing to buy a franchise. Canada's sports sponsorship money is heavly tied to hockey (NHL, CHL, and all the Jr. Leagues) then comes CFL. After that it depends on what city you live in and what other sports they offer.
Now Canada has the people to buy a franchise but they tend to go towards EPL clubs.
It comes down to the resources that a pro league needs to start up and Canada doesn't have that...right now. Then there is the governing body of Canadian Soccer which is th eCSA which needs to be burnt to the ground and rebuilt. Right there is the first thing that needs to happen.

[Keystone FC]

ummmm.....when canada has their own professional hockey league first, then after we can talk about soccer, but for now .................................................. ...



MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER it is

Actually there was a proposal of a new league called the Canadian Pro Hockey League back in the 90's when it seemed the NHL would abandon Canada for the glitz and money of the States. It couldn't get backing.

[Keystone FC]

The that always gets lost in these (absolutely crazy) debates is that outside of a few urban areas in Canada the appetite for a Canadian franchise is pretty small. I have my doubts some of these recently announced teams will have long lives (but i hope they do well).

It just doesn't enter some peoples minds that in terms of interest Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver are on COMPLETELY different levels from everyone else.

A Canadian league would be 7 or 8 teams continually losing money with low budgets and interest levels to match. Let's stick to MLS, and avoid the visit down to crazy town.

I thought about this and if true then the only way a soccer league would fly is to have 2 teams in the Big 3 and then maybe a club in Hamilton, Ottawa, Edmonton, and maybe Quebec City. That's 10 teams, 3 derbys, and out-of-city rivalries for everyone.

[TFCRegina]

With Ottawa, Victoria, and Hamilton joining NASL, and Montreal and Vancouver Joining MLS, I think that its about time to start putting thought into creating a league, somewhat like MLS, in Canada.

Im not saying in the next year or two, but creating a league takes time, and there would need to be information given to the cities about what the Canadian League will attempt too accomplish.

What would you all think if TFC, Vancouver, and Montreal pulled out of MLS in 5-6 Years time, and joined a Canadian League? Think we would be able to bring in talent similar to MLS, or do you think the league would fall on its face?

No. The league failed because there's not enough interest in it and the transportation costs are too high.

No team in MLS will willingly leave MLS, and the quality of play is higher there.

Absolutely against this.

[Beach_Red]

This is true but from what I see in Canada it's not a fight against other leagues but a tussle for sponsorship dollars and people willing to buy a franchise. Canada's sports sponsorship money is heavly tied to hockey (NHL, CHL, and all the Jr. Leagues) then comes CFL. After that it depends on what city you live in and what other sports they offer.

So, hockey and the CFL means the winter is covered and 8 home games in the summer.

If Canada had any entrepeneurial spirit people would see this as a wide open opportunity - the most popular sport in the world with almost no competition for ticket sales, sponsorship and TV deals.

But you're right, this is Canada and it's always been a branch-plant economy. I wonder if that will ever change?

[Hitcho]

The simple fact si there's not enough money in a Canada only football league to make it viable. MSL is viable because sponsors, advertisers and tv companies are prepared to reach for the potentially enormous US audience. If you went Canada only, you'd only get a tiny fraction of the potential revenue streams that would be available in the US. Plus MLS can draw some kind of international interest over time, even if it will never compare with European leagues. Somehow I cannot see anyone anywhere paying to pick up Canada league tv rights.

Theer's also probably not enough money from gate draws to maintain more than a few professional clubs in Canada. Can you honestly imagine a league of 15 TFC's? I cannot see that ever coming to pass.

So, without the infrastructure money from sponsors and tv companies, and without the gate attendance money, how are they going to keep the league afloat, never mind afford decent level players who could earn a whole whack more money by playing south of the border, which likely means Canadian players would scoot off to MLS first chance they got.

I don;t like the diea of being a small fish in the US football pond, but realistically it's the only way to maintain what we currently have in terms of TFC match day and league experience.

[Keystone FC]

So, hockey and the CFL means the winter is covered and 8 home games in the summer.

If Canada had any entrepeneurial spirit people would see this as a wide open opportunity - the most popular sport in the world with almost no competition for ticket sales, sponsorship and TV deals.

But you're right, this is Canada and it's always been a branch-plant economy. I wonder if that will ever change?

I just wonder how much money is tied into those two sports and since we're talking sponsorship we all know it's a 365 24 hour thing so there are promotions going on even in the off season which seems to shrink year by year. If the CSA would restructure and be able to get enough of those sponsorship dollars then I think it's a possiblity for a CSL to exist.

[DichioTFC]

I love when people refute their own suggestion.

Attempting to create a Canadian Soccer League would be suicide.

I love when people don't read the whole post.

My suggestion was that a Canadian Soccer League is a good idea and should be implemented so long as its a partner to MLS, not a competitor.

My point about OHL/QMJHL/WHL was that although they are not professional, they are successful and their reason for being so is that they partner with the NHL.

If a Canadian Soccer League were to partner with MLS (i.e. Youth elements, reserve league, what have you), it would be a success.

The A/AA/AAA leagues of baseball are examples of where these reserve leagues are successful in their local markets and provide a useful feature for the senior clubs.

Competing with MLS would be suicide, but working with MLS would help grow the sport across North America.

[TFC_Central]

Do you think that would be the case if there was a Canadian and a US hockey league?

it would be nice to have one first.

[Yohan]

I love when people don't read the whole post.

My suggestion was that a Canadian Soccer League is a good idea and should be implemented so long as its a partner to MLS, not a competitor.

My point about OHL/QMJHL/WHL was that although they are not professional, they are successful and their reason for being so is that they partner with the NHL.

If a Canadian Soccer League were to partner with MLS (i.e. Youth elements, reserve league, what have you), it would be a success.

The A/AA/AAA leagues of baseball are examples of where these reserve leagues are successful in their local markets and provide a useful feature for the senior clubs.

Competing with MLS would be suicide, but working with MLS would help grow the sport across North America.

how is this partnership going to work?

it sounds like this CSL would be a feeder league to MLS, just like OHL/WHL etc are feeder league to NHL

I don't see how the new CSL would have any sort of clout to attract talent and money that MLS does, therefore be forever relegated to playing 2nd fiddle to MLS

[rocker]

what's the business case for TFC to leave MLS?

[Kaz]

Ok the only way a Canadian Soccer league would work is to build it from the ground up..
you would have to set-up a euro league style system. with the country broken into 4 main groups.

The 1) Maritimes, 2) Ontario/Quebec, 3) North Western Ontario/Prairies and Nunavut 4) Alberta/BC and Territories.

area 1 and 2 feed into The Eastern League, and league 3 and 4 in The Western League.

Both the Eastern and Western League feed into a 8 team national league, playing for the Rogers Cup, and the top team gets berthed into the voyagers cup.

Leagues 1-4 are feed by local amateur leagues.

With that set up you might.. might get a Canadian Association Football base of players of enough size to compete well in the World Cup and take a #2 position in the Canadian Soccer System... eventually.

But to even get to the point of having a national league you need 4 years to prep it. And all the provincial associations to get on side as well as the CSA, not to mention existing semi-pro leagues.

This would be the only way to build the infrastructure, coaching base, reffing, and players in a natural and sustainable way, without you know a nation interest in the game at a professional level.