Our Forwards

[MartinUtd]

I wanted to get a discussion going on our attacking players since it seems there are a lot of varying opinions out there on our options. Here's my rundown of the situation:

Chad Barrett: We're slowing seeing more from Chad every week. His energy is a valuable commodity, but we all knew that. This season I've been particularly impressed with his movement on and off the ball and with him playing out wide more often he's putting a few good balls into the box. Definitely a keeper for the long term.


Fuad Ibrahim: Always shaky, but looking more and more confident. He actually fought for the last goal which is something I never thought I'd see after seeing him get pushed all around the park by defenders last season. He's been here for two seasons now but I'd like to remind everyone that he's still just 18. Put another 20lbs on the kid and he will be THE go to guy off the bench.

Jacob Peterson: Aka the invisible man. Seriously, the only time I notice this guy is when he fucks up. Fortunately Preki seems to have caught on and he's not seeing any time. I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was gone tomorrow.

O'Brian White: I have mixed feelings on this guy. A lot of people are saying we need to be patient or else he'll be the next Edson Buddle. While that is a worthwhile point, how much time do we have to give him? The guy is as slow as Gerba/Samuel but doesn't have the physical stature as an excuse. He has a cannon of a shot but not much else to offer. I have patience but if I don't see anything by season's end I think we should deal him to Vancouver or at least hang on to him as waiver bait.

Maicon Santos: Looked good against Colorado. Having known nothing about him I was told he was more of an outside winger player.. he didn't seem to fit that bill, but whatever the case I liked what I saw. I'm not sure exactly where he will fit in with Mista arriving.

DeRo: Have nothing bad to say about the guy. I'm looking forward to seeing him in his more natural attacking mid role rather than an out and out striker.

Mista: Have to wait and see on this one.


So that's my casual perspective. For you tattooed and branded TFC supporters, what do you think?

[ArmenJBX]

Honestly, I can't see Chad Barrett here next year

He's a Portland native and the Timbers need MLS American players. I have a feeling they're going to make us an offer we cannot refuse

OBW is good, he needs some time though. Maicon Santos and Mista likewise. De Rosario is baws. Ibby needs to go. I'm sorry, but beyond that goal, he was worthless on the field.

[MartinUtd]

Interesting about Barrett... I forgot about the Portland connection.

As far as OBW and Ibby goes... do you really think that time will be better to the older than the younger? Nationality status aside, I still think Ibrahim shows more promise. I just took a quick look at their MLS career stats:

Ibrahim has 2 goals , 3 assists in 850 minutes

OBW has 4 goals, 1 assist in 1103 minutes.

So production wise they're not that far off. The main difference is OBW is six years his senior.

[TFC_Central]

Chad Barrett: We're slowing seeing more from Chad every week. His energy is a valuable commodity, but we all knew that. This season I've been particularly impressed with his movement on and off the ball and with him playing out wide more often he's putting a few good balls into the box. Definitely a keeper for the long term.

I lol'ed we need him to score so we can trade him. All he brings to the club is a glimmer of hope. Then he misses 10 wide open nets.

[MartinUtd]

I think you're stuck in the past. According to MLSSoccer.com he's got 4 goals off 10 shots. Hardly a strike rate to turn your nose up at. Granted that's shots ON target, he hasn't been the trainwreck that he's been in the past. Beggers can't be choosers and there are definitely other players on the team that I'd be more frightened with having guarenteed contacts with.

[rocker]

it's hard to give up on White... he's shown brilliance at times in his goals. His scoring rate is not very good. And he gets off to a slow run (although his eventual top speed is good).
He's got size and strength, and in traffic he can usually muscle off a defender and keep control. He's got a hard shot and decent vision out there.

Negatives: he's old for a prospect (25 at the end of this year). He doesn't have many more growth years. He's coming off an injury that may or may not have affected his development (I never saw him before he got injured in college). If he graduates from Generation Adidas, his $180,000 salary is wayyyy too much under this cap.

Now, It's true that we've let go players who have succeeded elsewhere, but those guys had played, and scored a good amount, in MLS or elsewhere before coming to TFC.... and they scored in MLS or other leagues at younger than age 24.

I think White will have a good career when all is said and done. But whether or not the team should have the patience to wait years for that success is a big question. Remember that Cunningham had 1 good season with Dallas and now they've soured on him. Do you accept that inconsistency for years?

[Derko]

Although I did notice Ibrahim took all of the corners and wasn't that bad, at least they got into the box and were playable, not like that fickle short corner where we were always offside.

[ExiledRed]

Honestly, I can't see Chad Barrett here next year

He's a Portland native and the Timbers need MLS American players. I have a feeling they're going to make us an offer we cannot refuse

OBW is good, he needs some time though. Maicon Santos and Mista likewise. De Rosario is baws. Ibby needs to go. I'm sorry, but beyond that goal, he was worthless on the field.

dunno what the sad emo is about.

Barret's had far fewer 'good games' than bad ones, his salary has crippled us in the past, and it'll keep crippling us if we keep him.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

it's hard to give up on White... he's shown brilliance at times in his goals. His scoring rate is not very good. And he gets off to a slow run (although his eventual top speed is good).
He's got size and strength, and in traffic he can usually muscle off a defender and keep control. He's got a hard shot and decent vision out there.

Negatives: he's old for a prospect (25 at the end of this year). He doesn't have many more growth years. He's coming off an injury that may or may not have affected his development (I never saw him before he got injured in college). If he graduates from Generation Adidas, his $180,000 salary is wayyyy too much under this cap.

Now, It's true that we've let go players who have succeeded elsewhere, but those guys had played, and scored a good amount, in MLS or elsewhere before coming to TFC.... and they scored in MLS or other leagues at younger than age 24.

I think White will have a good career when all is said and done. But whether or not the team should have the patience to wait years for that success is a big question. Remember that Cunningham had 1 good season with Dallas and now they've soured on him. Do you accept that inconsistency for years?

yeah im with you.
basically hes had only really a half season as he was injured when he first came here and only had ncaa previous to that. i think we may have been promised big things but foolishly believed them. im not ready to give up on him yet and i dont think hes going to net us 15 a year but i do think he will be effective in time

[brad]

Everything about White that I don't like was apparent in the first half of the Colorado game this weekend.

He received the ball in a good position just outside the 18 yard box, at which point he should have immediately turned and tried to beat the last defender to get through on goal, or cracked a shot. Instead, he killed the play by looking around like a lost puppy dog trying to figure out what to do with the ball.

He just doesn't seem to have a footballing brain to me.

[brad]

dunno what the sad emo is about.

Barret's had far fewer 'good games' than bad ones, his salary has crippled us in the past, and it'll keep crippling us if we keep him.

I agree. I also think that Preki really likes him, and he won't be going anywhere.

[ExiledRed]

I think you're stuck in the past. According to MLSSoccer.com he's got 4 goals off 10 shots. Hardly a strike rate to turn your nose up at. Granted that's shots ON target, he hasn't been the trainwreck that he's been in the past. Beggers can't be choosers and there are definitely other players on the team that I'd be more frightened with having guarenteed contacts with.

You cant quantify Barrets skill from his last ten shots ON target. That might be half his career for all anybody can tell. For every shot on target He'll get twenty shots OFF target and some of those are often sitters. More interesting would be to see how many shots in 100 are actually ON target, and how many of those were actually goals.

Suggesting Barrett has a 40% strike rate is nonsense

[MartinUtd]

Yeah I realized the stat was for on target shots right after I posted it, hence the edit. The numbers are from the 2010 season only though and you have to admit he's another player entirely this year. Too bad they don't track total shots taken. I still stand by my claim that he's made vast improvements this year.

[RedsYNWA]

Chad Barrett: Too costly for the returns should be gone after this season
Fuad Ibrahim: He looks like a little kid out there just not good enough..nice goal just no consistency
Jacob Peterson: If he can get settled he could be better than Barrett...but i would not hold my breath
O'Brian White: All Hype, a flash of talent here and there, this year is do or die for the boy

Maicon Santos: Too early to tell but could gel into a 3rd option at least

DeRo: Legend, will play great behing a holding striker like a Mista

Mista: Too early to tell but I do see $$$ as a great incentive to have a new contract next year

[JonO]

Chad Barrett: I like him and hope we are able to keep him at a lower salary. If not, then it was nice while it lasted.

Jacob Peterson: Getting a bit too much stick if you ask me. He's coming off a major injury (if I am not mistaken) so I'm willing to give him some more time before I judge him. Also, he is not a forward.

[ExiledRed]

When Santos strode onto the pitch, he exuded confidence and actually projected his desire to score. He struck me immediately as a professional footballer and not a wannabe, like many are in this league.

There are people on here giving it the 'time will tell' treatment, and I cant really argue with that, he could prove to be a disaster, but...

My gut instinct, and immediate impression was that this dude is going to be a different kind of player than were used to seeing up front, and thats a good thing.

[ExiledRed]

Ibrahim's a kid, with more potential than most of the youngters weve seen here.

Those of you who claim he was invisible all of last season, might remember he didnt get much playtime to prevent a payout to Dallas.

I dont get much pleasure from watching our players, to be honest, but the look on Fuad's face even ten minutes after he scored, made my saturday

[rocker]

With Maicon, I'm going to go with the "In Preki We Trust" mantra.

You don't grab a guy days after he's released (a guy who isn't that cheap.. his salary is over 100K) unless you really trust and believe in him. Preki knows Maicon better than any of us. Obviously he believes Maicon offers something valuable.

[Bars92]

Unrelated to striking, but I think JDG and Maicon will do some damage once they get on the field together.

[DoubleUp]

When Santos strode onto the pitch, he exuded confidence and actually projected his desire to score. He struck me immediately as a professional footballer and not a wannabe, like many are in this league.

There are people on here giving it the 'time will tell' treatment, and I cant really argue with that, he could prove to be a disaster, but...

My gut instinct, and immediate impression was that this dude is going to be a different kind of player than were used to seeing up front, and thats a good thing.

I got that same feeling as well.
I think Barrett should finally be used as winger on reduced salary, I think Obw is fairly decent IQ wise but his physical attributes....Speed/reaction/touch is something we shouldnt waste anymore time on. I would prefer to keep Ibby because he's younger and shows just a bit more for his age than white, also we can afford to keep him for another 2 years before bringing the axe down if he does not improve. I see us finally establishing a core 11. Now I would like to see us trim the fat and bring players that will only bolster what we have....we can't continue to carry people simply because we like them....Canada/Toronto is a friendly caring place but this is a Business and should be treated as such, atleast until after we win the cup.

[pawlukj]

i dont really like obrian white, but dero and barrett can be good if they start feeding each other, mista i am waiting to see

[ag futbol]

No thank you to Chad Barrett starting (on the wing or up front). There's A LOT of underlying problems with his game (and it's not just about finishing) that prevent him from being a quality starter at the MLS level.

This has gone on for too long, time for Chad to make his impact as a sub. That's an acceptable way for him to prove himself going forward.

[DoubleUp]

No thank you to Chad Barrett starting (on the wing or up front). There's A LOT of underlying problems with his game (and it's not just about finishing) that prevent him from being a quality starter at the MLS level.

This has gone on for too long, time for Chad to make his impact as a sub. That's an acceptable way for him to prove himself going forward.

I disagree! Chad has been starting for our club and there's no reason he can't continue to do so his goal scoring has'nt been great, but work rate and chance creation is good. stick him on the wing and let him run till he's gassed, we don't have the luxury of not starting chad or any other player with superior skill or work rate.

[ExiledRed]

I disagree! Chad has been starting for our club and there's no reason he can continue to do so his goal scoring has'nt been great, but work rate and chance creation is good. stick him on the wing and let him run till he's gassed, we don't have the luxury of not starting chad or any other player with superior skill or work rate.

Chad's been starting for our club three seasons merely because it would be ridiculous to have a guy at that salary on the bench, especially when nobody wants to trade for him.

Barrett's chance creation could easily be perceived as chance wasting in most of his games for us, to be honest and throughout his career here, superior forwards have indeed sat while he's started and played frustrating games, and I'm pretty sure that within the next few games the superiority of Santos and Mista over Barrett will be plain as day.

[DichioTFC]

Goals and misses aside, Barrett opens up the opposing defence more than people realize. He has a great work rate and pretty good speed, his touch is reasonable. If the only problem with Barrett is finishing, he should definitely be a winger or an attacking mid to help out DeRo. That being said, if we could trade Barrett to Portland for their first round pick, I would be pleased.

OBW really needs to grow this season but contrary to someone else, next year is do or die year. With Vancouver coming in 2011 and Montreal in 2012, we have the time necessary to hold on to him and auction him off to the highest of the two bidders.

Tough to judge Ibby with the lack of playing time he receives. The more time he gets the better he'll be IMO. Where his ceiling is will be the question. Will he be a surprising semi-hero or a GA flame-out, it's tough to say.

[ag futbol]

I'd like to think that if Mo Johnston believed in signing actual wingers and we had one in our roster they might have done the job a lot better than Chud did, because there was a shitload of poor play we went through just to get that one cross. His first touch on numerous occasions was simply terrible to the point where he simply put it straight into the defender and he killed a bunch of attacking chances with some poor decision making.

As for the wing. We tried that last year. Whole lot of negative back passes and gassing at the 65th minute mark. His cardo has improved, but he's never going to last on the flank for 90.

I wonder if they talk about Justin Braun like this on the Chivas board...

[DoubleUp]

Chad's been starting for our club three seasons merely because it would be ridiculous to have a guy at that salary on the bench, especially when nobody wants to trade for him.

Barrett's chance creation could easily be perceived as chance wasting in most of his games for us, to be honest and throughout his career here, superior forwards have indeed sat while he's started and played frustrating games, and I'm pretty sure that within the next few games the superiority of Santos and Mista over Barrett will be plain as day.

Thats fine! but the things he does well more times than not benefit the team, no cross from chad, no goal for ibby, no 3points for the team. Its that simple!
stick him on the wings providing for our more technical forwards and suddenly he has a purpose!. This is a league where a scorned Rb(wynne) can be shipped out to become a starting Cb, so we know just because someone is not working out in one position doesnt mean he can't be utilized in a different role. Aslong as he would be willing to take a reduced salary, again with the new developments I don't see why he can't play wing for us. Like or not! Imo chad is one of the players in our strongest 11 maybe not as striker, but he is in our strongest 11. So you can look at it as, he just that good or the teams collective skill is just that low.

[jloome]

Barrett: Good work-rate, persistent and able to beat a man one on one. Bad positioning, bad movement off the ball, hangs too much off one defender and is easily moved to his weaker foot, outside the post, which makes it tougher to get a shot on or beat the keeper. Needs remedial work to fix his positioning and to keep his confidence high.

White: Good technique with the ball, poor first touch. Good speed, poor acceleration. He can hit the net, but lacks the confidence of a professional to open up space for himself and instead is prone to dish the ball, despite a quick release. Weak off the ball movement, though less static than Barrett. Movement is naive and doesn't play to weaknesses in opposition movement. Not ready for primetime, has prospects, but may be too old to correct many bad habits.

Ibrahim: Good off the ball movement and touch, first step is often poor. Seriously needs muscle but has good acceleration, so he shouldn't pack it on. Good movement in the box, willing to take a pop. Poor linkup play. Haven't seen enough of him as a striker to say where he is, but is as viable an option at 18 as either Barrett or OBW.

Maicon Santos: A guy looking for goals, from his first appearance. Hard to judge, as I've only seen him a couple of times with Chivas before here. Had trouble linking play back up with the midfield and dishing the ball as a holder, but instead looked like he should be playing as more of an attacker. Turns well with the ball, great first step, very quick shot release, though he tends to blast it ala Barrett. Interesting acquisition! He'll either score a bunch or end up Mista's backup.

I'm not even going to review Mista, as I haven't seen him play since Valencia. Back then, he had a cracker of a shot with either foot and can really hold a man off. But he's a lot older now. Anyway, a guy capped twice for spain who had 40 goals for Valencia starts, in my opinion, on pretty much any team in MLS.

[ExiledRed]

Ibrahim: Good off the ball movement and touch, first step is often poor. Seriously needs muscle but has good acceleration, so he shouldn't pack it on. Good movement in the box, willing to take a pop. Poor linkup play. Haven't seen enough of him as a striker to say where he is, but is as viable an option at 18 as either Barrett or OBW.

Thankyou,

Nobody has seen enough of him, although there are many on this board who see Barrett underachieving season after season and think he's great, that seem to think Ibrahim doesn't cut it.

Ibrahim got screwed by the Dallas deal, he didnt get played because we would have to pay an extra allocation to Dallas, if he did.

I'm pretty sure that if he got the amount of playing time Barrett has had, he would have more goals.

[razor787]

In my opinion, Ibrahim isnt ready for this league. He is close, but not quite. He needs to get minutes in against other reserve sides while training with our main team. Would speed his development a lot more then sitting him on the bench, only to put him on the pitch, and watch him get pushed around.

He has loads of potential. I want to keep the kid around for a while. He will be a great MLS Striker in a couple years.