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  1. #151
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    Frankly, I'd dump both Mo and Preki to get Domminic Kinnear from Houston. Just saying...
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocker View Post
    No pro team in sports plays every player for every game.. even Man U rests guys when they have 2 games in 1 week... for the reason I explained above.

    If you've never heard of overtraining then you'll never agree on that point.
    Of course they do. Clubs like ManU aren't your everyday example and of course they can afford to rest players because they have a squad of 24 quality players who are all of similar ability.
    Clubs with limited playing resources, like TFC, are miles away from that luxury and have to play their strongest team all the time.
    To rest the 2 players who are miles ahead of anyone else was suicide.
    Of course I've heard of over-training. That's why I stated when you get to a good level of fitness you can tone down the pre-season style stuff and concentrate on playing/ballwork/tactics.
    If they didn't have that second game in a week do you think they'd be sitting on their arses for the other 6 days ?
    No, they'll be working hard.
    Last edited by Roogsy; 05-04-2010 at 08:26 AM.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Frankly, I'd dump both Mo and Preki to get Domminic Kinnear from Houston. Just saying...
    Fair enough, I think all of us would. But the chances of that are?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by James17930 View Post
    This is a good point, and points to what I was trying to say with the original post -- that rotation is good, but maybe the way he did it was wrong.

    I think now the best thing to do would have been to put Saric at DM, then play either De Ro or JDG at AM for the first half, then switch them for the second half. In that way, both would only play 45 minutes and each would get the rest he needs without the team suffering without the both of them.

    -- Also -- anyone who says the game at RSL was winnable is having a laugh. I keep saying this, but I'll say it again -- A GAME AT ALTITUDE WITH 3 DAYS REST IS NEVER 'AUTOMATICALLY WINNABLE'. Preki was playing for a draw, which was the absolute right decision [can anyone have said 4 of 6 (league) points in one week would have been a failure?]

    And I just want to reiterate my main point as well:

    We, and Preki, and the starters, cannot afford to lose confidence in our bench players. Regardless of how good or bad people think they are, we need them -- you could even say the success of the entire season depends upon them, because De Ro and JDG simply cannot carry they team on their own all year -- they'll burn out.

    I just really hope Preki realizes that making 6 changes was the mistake, not necessarily the individual play of each of those guys, and we still see guys coming in and out of the lineup, because without that, it's only a matter of time before De Ro does his back or hamstring again.
    So James, you start this thread with this title
    The Squad Rotation Experiment Wasn't a 'Failure'

    By the sounds of this post though sounds like you DO think the rotation was a failure. I don't think you'd be suggesting better ways to rotate the players if that was the case.

    Anyhow, I think the thread title is way over exagerated. It was a failure, no doubt about it. Did Preki learn from it? we'll see.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Frankly, I'd dump both Mo and Preki to get Domminic Kinnear from Houston. Just saying...

    Just curious, how long a contract would you offer? And at how much more than he's making now? Would he get to clear out the front office and bring in his own people or would he have to keep Dichio and Brennan and so on?

    I like the idea of a whole new front office as well but I wonder if this ownership is really going to spend what it would actually take. Well, now that the team has been profitable for many years, maybe they will, they did finally sign a DP. I wonder if they'd let Kinnear sign another one, they certainly have the money.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pachuco View Post
    So James, you start this thread with this title
    The Squad Rotation Experiment Wasn't a 'Failure'

    By the sounds of this post though sounds like you DO think the rotation was a failure. I don't think you'd be suggesting better ways to rotate the players if that was the case.

    Anyhow, I think the thread title is way over exagerated. It was a failure, no doubt about it. Did Preki learn from it? we'll see.
    Yes, it seems like I was being unclear. What I meant was -- and what I said in the original post -- was that rotating the squad wasn't wrong, just maybe the exact way it was done was (i.e. tactically -- just sitting back the whole time). We have to be able to rotate throughout the season or we're not going to get anywhere, and I only hope this doesn't cause Preki to lose confidence in some of those guys (unless, like Garcia, they've already proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that they're total shit).

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    THis thread got pissier than I normally like these days but watching everyone argue at cross purposes is somewhat frustrating.

    Can I suggest a few realistic compromise positions here that reflect both sides, since it occurs to me that both have reasonable stances?

    To whit:

    1) You can't compare North American football with European football because the athletes themselves differ greatly.

    Euro footie experts will tell you American soccer is about athleticism and battle, while European players grow up learning a different tactical -- and more team-based -- approach. The kids here play multiple sports growing up and then excel as soccer players. The kids there start as soccer players and end as soccer players.

    So, you can't compare leagues directly.

    MLS off-the-ball-movement and tactical play probably isn't much better than conference-to-league one, depending on the team. But our players' technique, inidividual skill level and athleticism ranges all the way from the Premiership to League One, usually well above what you would find below the top tier of league one/average Coca Cola Championship side.

    Ergo, it is it's own game. YOu can't compare it. USL is MLS without the technique, that's all. Some in that league read the game well, others poorly. Given that scouts look at repetitive behaviours as a heavy indicator of future success, I'd suggest fewer at that level read the game as well as in MLS, either.



    2) You can play defensively in almost any formation. So you don't need to be in a 4-5-1, but yes, it's easy to defend with an extra midfielder who lays back all the time by a flat-back four. Did we need to do it to play defensively against RSL? No, and it didn't work anyway, so it's moot. The coach himslef has admitted it was a gamble that didn't work, so to all those defending the choice, please, get your heads out: we lost.

    He admitted it didn't work. And a coach's responsibility extends to putting players on the pitch who know how to make it work, so even if the tactic was good, and the players bad, it's still his responsibility. Good on him for manning up to it immediately, which shows more strength of character than most bosses in this league have shown.

    3) Players don't need to be at optimum to perform well, but they are more likely to do so. You don't play Wednesday, fly Friday and play again Saturday -- AT EXTREME ALTITUDE - - without fatigue affecting things. It made sense, then, to have some offense on the bench so that if we held them close in the first, that person would b coming in fresh and with a slight (Davenport: read slight) advantage as a result.

    Having said that, generally foreign teams only rotate when they have players of equivalent calibre. THat's why it's rotational policy -- because it rotates constantly. Teams have 25-30 man squads because of injury, mostly. One player plus one backup = 22 players. Throw in 3-to-8 more who are under contract but not making the team or youths, and you have a 30-man squad.

    But we don't have the talent to rotate as a policy. Unfortunately, Preki's still so new and his players are so new, that figuring out which ones gel together as a first team is gonna mean some different looking sides early.

    So we got a combo of rotational/rest/assessment this week and it went badly. But from his perspective, RSL lost has lost at home ONCE in 18 months, so it made sense to gamble there.

    I'm 2 days late to the game on this whole debate about, "A what level of league in England/Europe could decent MLs side compete". I like your perspective on this. Truth is all anybody can offer on this topic is opinions.

    Wouldn't it be awesome if this debate could be settled by having a single MLS team play friendlies against a mid-table team from every level of league in England in a single year? Start at the non-league level and work all the way up the Premiership? I think this could even be a realithy show on Spike.

  8. #158
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    ^ What anyone on this topic is INFORMED and REASONED opinion. Well informed and reasoned opinion more often then not is correct. There is plenty of evidence to back Jloome's opinion.

  9. #159
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    I disagree with the technique - yes we got bigger faster stronger athletes, but most of the technique and individual skill on display is awful - below league 1 standards for the most part. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are generally not the US or Cdn players.

  10. #160
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    ^ I tend to agree, the only issue I am not sure how much of that is about team play. Meaning the passess are not completeled due to poor positioning communication as opposed to poor technique, but I have no reason to believe you are wrong.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    ^ What anyone on this topic is INFORMED and REASONED opinion. Well informed and reasoned opinion more often then not is correct. There is plenty of evidence to back Jloome's opinion.
    huh? not sure I get your point. In my post I said that, "I like your perspective" signally that I generally agreed.

    I guess my point was that this debate is so intriguing and the the opinions on the topic are so divergent, that actually playing games with an MLS side against each level of the english pro ladder would really be a captivating/interesting sporting experience to watch.

    In boxing they say, "Stylel match-ups, make fights". jloome nicely articulated the style differences between North American and European soccer. How woudl those style difference play out on the field?

  12. #162
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    failure or not, Preki going into away games trying not to lose (4-5-1) will always give us shit results. The home team comes out attacking...fuck'em, attack them aggressively right back.

    Preki for fuck sakes, Attack just like at BMO!

 

 

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