Is First Wave Sports handling TFC's scouting?

[jloome]

http://www.firstwavesports.com/firstwave/staff2

Notice they had a couple of scouts on staff, an African player agent as a partner and a Canadian player agent as a partner.

That sounds an awful lot like the scouting makeup that's been described, in general, by Paul on these boards.

I wonder if he'd clarify whether First Wave represents any ongoing segment of TFC's scouting efforts, whether the club's scouts are all independent freelances, or full-timers, or connected to First Wave in any other sense?

This may have come up before and been clarified and my bad if that's the case, but I'm curious, given how many TFC staff are represented by the club.

Anyone got an answer on that one? Paul?

[andyc]

This is a real topic that needs to be discussed. TFC has a pathetic record of signings and contract negotiations.

First Wave and Mo seem to have a key role in many of these questionable decisions. Someone at MLSE needs to take a serious look if their governance of the management of the team is appropriate for an organization of this scale...

[Krasno.pL.]

Supposedly Barry MacLean has some connections to TFC

[Damien]

Yes, next question

[kelzag]

This is a real topic that needs to be discussed. TFC has a pathetic record of signings and contract negotiations.

First Wave and Mo seem to have a key role in many of these questionable decisions. Someone at MLSE needs to take a serious look if their governance of the management of the team is appropriate for an organization of this scale...

^^^That!!!!!

[koryo]

This is a real topic that needs to be discussed. TFC has a pathetic record of signings and contract negotiations.

First Wave and Mo seem to have a key role in many of these questionable decisions. Someone at MLSE needs to take a serious look if their governance of the management of the team is appropriate for an organization of this scale...

Bang on.

[ensco]

The system is corked and these agencies really need to be scrutinized. But given the single entity, I'm not buying the broader premise of this.

It's clearly the case that First Wave has been involved in our international signings, but that is the case for the league generally.

TFC's scouting department has five areas of responsibility: pro scouting in MLS (ie players on other teams), NCAA soccer (ie the draft), the USL/NASL, kids for the Academy, and then all the other leagues the world over for international signings.

If there is evidence that First Wave (or any other third party) is systematically involved in any of the first four areas, I haven't seen it.

Many internationals come in through firms like First Wave, but not necessarily for TFC's benefit.

MLS signed our Gambians. Not Mo. They actually belonged to the Galaxy first.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/sp...0soccer&st=cse

[Beach_Red]

^ But TFC do pretty well in the first four areas of scouting you mentioned - it's the rest of the world the team seems to have trouble with, so we're just looking for why that is. Are they not spending enough money on scouting there or what?

And First Wave is a lot more involved that just that - their Events division handled all the friendlies that came to BMO and the All Star game. Plus, of course, they rep the entire management and coaching staff, right down to the goalie coach.

It looks like someone at MLSE did take a serious look at the organization and they've pretty much sub-contracted out the running of the team to them, the same as they've contracted out the food concessions.

What it means for us is that calls to replace the GM are pointless because the next one will also come from these guys and do exactly the same things.

[billyfly]

This is fascinating.

[jloome]

If there is evidence that First Wave (or any other third party) is systematically involved in any of the first four areas, I haven't seen it.

I simply asked a question based on an observation. If First Wave has no ongoing role in TFC scouting, a partial one, a major one, or whatever, I can't see why Paul wouldn't be able to be open about it.

[ag futbol]

MLS signed our Gambians. Not Mo. They actually belonged to the Galaxy first.

Yes big, brother actually does a lot more in the scouting department than people realize.

They go out and identify talent centrally, then in many cases offer them up to different teams. The conflict of interest there is ridiculous.

[2Legit2Quit]

Some players that came on trial or brought in by other sources have been asked to move to First Wave before signing a deal with TFC, and changed shortly after signing or right before...Pablo Vitti is one of those players.

[icecoldbeer]

TFC Clients: Edwards, Brennan, Sanyang, Barrett and O'Brian White

I'm confused because Edwards and OBW came through NCAA, does First Wave represent them for contracts? Did First Wave make the initial offer to Brennan back in '06 or was in Mo?

[2Legit2Quit]

TFC Clients: Edwards, Brennan, Sanyang, Barrett and O'Brian White

I'm confused because Edwards and OBW came through NCAA, does First Wave represent them for contracts? Did First Wave make the initial offer to Brennan back in '06 or was in Mo?

They were signed with First Wave prior to the draft.

Jimmy changed representation when he resigned with TFC.

And here is an oldy from BS about TFC & their association with First Wave. Draw your own conclusions...

That and the fact that Messing has zero MLS players on his roster: www.globalsportgroup.com

As per my predictions:

1. Paulo Nagamura (Los Angeles Galaxy) - Not First Wave client
2. Danny O'Rourke (New York Red Bulls) - Not First Wave client
3. Jose Cancela (New England Revolution) - Not First Wave client
4. Adrian Serioux (Houston Dynamo) - IS A First Wave client
5. Nate Jaqua (Chicago Fire) - IS A First Wave Client
6. Rod Dyachenko (D.C. United) - IS A First Wave client
7. Jason Kreis (Real Salt Lake) - Has no agent, I presume
8. Tim Regan (Chivas USA) - IS A First Wave client
9. Ritchie Kotschau (Columbus Crew) - IS a First Wave client
10. Will Hesmer (Kansas City Wizards) - Not a First Wave client

That's 5 out of 10 picks AND the at least 4 already signed prior to the draft.

These guys do not have an outstanding amount of MLS guys - they only have 40 guys in the league by my count from their website.

If you have at least 9 guys already tabbed for one team after the expansion draft PLUS the potential Ronnie O'Brien trade (to make ten), well, that stinks of something. That's all I'm saying.

As a fan of the team, I'd be be watching that relationship very closely.... You don't want to limit your ability to get the right players just because the agent doesn't do business with them.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=437407

[Beach_Red]

Some players that came on trial or brought in by other sources have been asked to move to First Wave before signing a deal with TFC, and changed shortly after signing or right before...Pablo Vitti is one of those players.

So that would have happened after First Wave organized the friendly between his club, Independiente, and TFC?

[2Legit2Quit]

TFC Clients: Edwards, Brennan, Sanyang, Barrett and O'Brian White

I'm confused because Edwards and OBW came through NCAA, does First Wave represent them for contracts? Did First Wave make the initial offer to Brennan back in '06 or was in Mo?

First Wave represented them before the draft, as it represented previous drafted players like Pat Phelan and this years Nane Joseph.

Brennan was/is represented by Barry MacLean, who runs First Wave.

Check the early posts of this thread: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=437407

[BakaGaijin]

I would personally like to thank First Wave Sports, Barry McLean, and Mo Johnston for initially setting us up with the signings of Marco Reda and Adam Braz. These signings set a standard of futility in our back four that has been consistant right up to the present day.

Thanks cunts.

[olegunnar]

All the coaches are represented by First Wave.
Carver too. He didn't have an agent in England??
It's almost as if it's a condition of employment.

I wonder why that would be?

[olegunnar]

Some players that came on trial or brought in by other sources have been asked to move to First Wave before signing a deal with TFC, and changed shortly after signing or right before...Pablo Vitti is one of those players.

I wonder why they'd be asked to move?
Why would Mo want them to change representation? What's in it for him?

[billyfly]

I'd love for someone in the media to pick this up and run with it. (hint, hint)

[James17930]

Investigating things like this is what the media should be doing.

There has definitely always been something fishy about the whole First Wave thing.

[CretanBull]

An unrelated/related issue...

Most teams scout players, and then bring the guys that they like on trial to see how they work with the team. We seem to bring guys to trial as a means of scouting them. I'm sure First Wave gets the foot in the door for half these guys...

[Beach_Red]

I wonder why they'd be asked to move?
Why would Mo want them to change representation? What's in it for him?

When did he sign with them? Did he have to change, too? There are a lot of questions here and it would be nice to see someone follow them all the way, past TFC and into MLSE who can't be unaware of what's going on.

[andyc]

Serioux was a First Wave client and he switched last year to be represented by his brother Marcus.....

[Roogsy]

An unrelated/related issue...

Most teams scout players, and then bring the guys that they like on trial to see how they work with the team. We seem to bring guys to trial as a means of scouting them. I'm sure First Wave gets the foot in the door for half these guys...

I don't know what exactly the relationship is with First Wave but there is definitely the impression of special access or privilege. The limited info I have doesn't give me much confidence in Barry McLean.

[billyfly]

What I want to know is if we all start complaining about First Wave in this thread, do our tickets mysteriously disappear, does the website go down..etc?

[werewolf]

welcome to the business world of international football.

[Roogsy]

The football world is pretty sleazy but I think we're surprised that it's happening in Canada and that it happened so quickly with such a new team.

[Beach_Red]

I don't know what exactly the relationship is with First Wave but there is definitely the impression of special access or privilege. The limited info I have doesn't give me much confidence in Barry McLean.

On the other hand, MLSE probably invested zero in international scouting, so whatever they get through these guys is more than they would have otherwise.

Maybe they had companies submit bids to run TFC and took the lowest one....

[wzhxvy]

Most companies have preferred staffing agencies...if you want to work on contract, you have to sign up with these guys...Manpower..Adecco...etc...would not be shocked if there is some similar arrangement here with TFC...a way to centralize things, get "preferred rates", etc...what shocks me more is that TFC actually does any scouting....