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    Default Expect to See a Team Actually IN NYC (not New Jersey) SOON!

    We at MLSR have posted quite a few stories about the expansion possibilities of a team in New York City. We are hesitant of saying 2nd team in New York City because currently no MLS team plays there. That's right. We do not count the Red Bulls because Red Bull New York's footprint within the city of New York is almost non-existent. Many New York City footy fanaticos have no idea there is even a professional MLS team in New York. Because....there isn't. There's a team which plays in New Jersey and whose marketing for most of its existence turned off the kind of hard core football fan that you see in cities like Washington DC, Toronto and Houston.

    Cue the hemming and hawing from the center of the country, the south, Canada and other places not familiar with the unique geo/political/social/psychological rift between New York City and New Jersey (and the rest of the country). "Why don't they just get in their car and drive to Giants Stadium/Red Bull Park." "Why are they so lazy they can't bother going to support the team they HAVE." So that we don't have to repeat the same thing over and over this "New York 2 FAQ" will be included in a link in every posting we make about the 2nd club in the New York area, as we expect these stories to become more frequent in the days, weeks and months ahead from what we've been hearing.

    To understand why a "2nd" team in the New York Metro area makes sense you must understand the five points below:

    1. New York City is Different. New York City is an urban, densely populated, mostly car less city. In other words many New Yorkers who live in NYC proper DO NOT OWN A CAR OR DRIVE. This is key to understanding why asking them to make their way to New Jersey is a non-starter. Most New Yorkers thinking of New Jersey as "far". Naming the team that Red Bull bought, New York does not make it so, for that very reason. They might as well be playing in Harrisburg, PA, or on the Moon for that matter. They'd be just as irrelevant as they are now to most of the CITY of New York. This is why RBNY is mostly ignored by the sporting press and off the radar for most fans of the sport in New York City.

    2. The Original Plan. Two teams in the New York area was in the original plan for MLS, just as Philadelphia and St Louis was. This explains why the Commissioner, Don Garber has said the same with regards to New York "2" as he has with Philadelphia and St Louis: "It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when." Some see NY2 as Don Garber's pet project, but in reality the plans for a team and derby rival to MetroStars/RedBulls was laid out before a ball was ever kicked.

    3. Identity. Because of point #1, the bulk of the people a team in New York City proper would draw from would never have identified with Red Bull New York. The reason as was mentioned above, is cultural. New York is a cosmopolitan, urban, get on the subway/take a train, city. Put a team on the 7 line and you will need to build a 30,000 seat stadium for it. Put it in New Jersey and well.....you see the result. New Yorkers will never identify with something which reeks of New Jersey from the location down to the way the team has historically been promoted as suburban family fun.

    4. Economics/Population Density. New York City has been called by Don Garber, MLS's largest untapped market. Why? See point #3 above. With such a large market to draw from MLS would be foolish to pass it up in favor of some other expansion candidates. We have seen very little in the way of New York area soccer fans interested in MLS BECAUSE MLS is not in New York City yet, not the reverse. The same could have been said about Toronto prior to MLS coming. You saw an excellent and vocally pro-USA crowd at the USA vs Argentina match at Giants Stadium but those same people who made up the nearly 80,000 who attended that match either do not know about Red Bull New York or care about Red Bull New York for the simple face that its not in New York. Does this sound small or provincial to you? Perhaps it does, until you realize just how densely packed the city is. At nearly 19 million people New York City to put this in perspective, if New York City were a country in Europe and if it qualified in Euro2008 would be the 7th most populous country in the tournament with a population greater than that of Holland. That's a lot of people. A lot of people with a lot of dollars who currently don't care about MLS. For this reason, contrary to the conventional wisdom of many who can not see past the end of their nose, the 2nd team in the New York Metro area would not "split Red Bull NY's" fanbase. It would likely actually add to their attendance during derby matches with the New York City based team. Likewise, in a derby people would be forced to chose a side and we suspect many New Jersey fans of the sport would throw in their lot with Red Bull.

    5. The Borough Boys. Just as Philadelphia and the constant talk about it being in MLS for over a decade eventually spawned a grassroots group of rowdies to drum up support in every corner of the city, then nation, then globe, the constant talk of NY2 has spawned a similar band of brothers known as the Borough Boys. They are in the mold of Philadelphia's Sons Of Ben in that they are fan advocates for MLS in their city and will in the days ahead be increasing their visibility to put the focus on the fact that New York City needs MLS and MLS needs New York City to be truly the league many imagine it to become in the next decade. MLS has the road map, New York City has the interest and money to support the team, the Borough Boys are a catalyst.

    We'd hope that the next time the tired arguments against the inevitable are brought up you'd refer to the text above.

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    Get more than say... 10k out to a NJDB game and we'll talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaughno View Post
    Get more than say... 10k out to a NJDB game and we'll talk.
    I don't really agree. I mean, I went to Lynx games, but they only averaged a few hundred per game. NJDB is really a parallel situation (marketing to kids, stadium in the boonies, poor and mismanaged team). MLS has to evaluate NY based on the hardcore support that the club could draw (it would have to be marketed correctly, too). Giorgio Chinaglia has said that he would sell the rights to the "Cosmos" name too (he continues to hold the rights) for only $1 million.
    "Of all the things in life that don't actually matter, football matters the most." - Stuart McKeown

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    MLS has to build teams inside the cities, not in shit suburbs. Come on MLS, get it together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I don't really agree. I mean, I went to Lynx games, but they only averaged a few hundred per game. NJDB is really a parallel situation (marketing to kids, stadium in the boonies, poor and mismanaged team). MLS has to evaluate NY based on the hardcore support that the club could draw (it would have to be marketed correctly, too). Giorgio Chinaglia has said that he would sell the rights to the "Cosmos" name too (he continues to hold the rights) for only $1 million.
    Screw the cosmos name.. Need to break away from NASL jinx.
    Keep it simple.. New York City FC

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    Absolutely disagree. Imagine if TFC was put in Pickering...They'd be drawing less than 5000 per game...Very same parallel..read the article..People in NYC WON'T go to new Jersey, but on their own turf they'd draw IMO 25,000+ EASY!

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    Wow I guess the scarcasm was quite missed in my last post.

    Anyway, I'd rather see a team in NYC that *should* be able to fill a stadium than a team in Kansas City... or Columbus where the people don't even know about the team outside of the stadium.

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    So why not just move the Shit bulls into NY instead of adding another team in that area???

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    So why not just move the Shit bulls into NY instead of adding another team in that area???
    exactly... all this talk of justifying NYRB low attendance fails to explain how the New Joisey soccer team will fill a 25000 seat stadium once New York gets a team.
    New Joisey never really supports its hockey and basketball that well, and that arena is smaller.

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    I would like NYC to have a team in the City...but that should be one of the last expansion clubs. The MLS are in dying markets like the Wizards, Colombus and Chivas. Relocation will have to happen with real interest in other cities. If MLS wants to expand its footprint, putting another team in the same city has not been successful. Enter Chivas. Yes, NJ is different city, but the stadium is suppose to be really accessible from NY. Downtown stadiums are better and would draw more, no question. But you have to deal in reality and soccer is not a priority in any american city or Canadian one (see Vancouver).

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocker View Post
    exactly... all this talk of justifying NYRB low attendance fails to explain how the New Joisey soccer team will fill a 25000 seat stadium once New York gets a team.
    New Joisey never really supports its hockey and basketball that well, and that arena is smaller.

    Seems that the MLS is in a fantasy world right now. They have this dillusion that just because they stick a team in a well populated area, it will sell itself and people will come.

    As previously stated in this thread, maybe they should focus on getting NYRB to sell a few more tickets before they stick another team in that area.

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    So is St. Louis the destination for The Crew?
    Expansion seems silly.
    Garber has said that he wants a more tempered expansion plan...and his target number is quickly approaching.

    so relocation must be on the horizon.
    Colombus seems like a good candidate to move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DigzTFC! View Post
    I would like NYC to have a team in the City...but that should be one of the last expansion clubs.
    Don't waste another expansion team on NY...just move the one they have now!!it's not like anyone is going to the game anyways.

    MLS fucked up by putting them there, they're just too proud to admit they were wrong and move the team back into the city.

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    I think the point has been made on the probable success of a true NY franchise but the area will not be patient with a new franchise. The challenge has always to take the big risk ($$$) to make sure this team represents the biggest city in the country. It has to not just compete but dazzle with big name stars right from day one. Henry, Ronaldo (the brazilian), Zidane. Their quality can be argued. Their attraction would be undeniable to fans in that city. And they're out there...

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    Put the stadium in Central Park !!

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    Im all for a proper New York franchise that actually plays in one of the boroughs but I dont understand where the Shit Bulls expect to get their fans from when this happens.

    Although I dont really care so long as one of Shea or Old Yankee Stadium is used and the team is called either Mets FC or Yankees FC. Thats my dream franchise for New York.

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    Quote Originally Posted by profit89 View Post
    MLS has to build teams inside the cities, not in shit suburbs. Come on MLS, get it together.

    the price of land in the big us cities if avaiable would be sky high, thats
    why clubs are building outsdie the major city centers.

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    It would seem to me that moving the Red Bulls would be a lot less risky than potentially over saturating a market that MAY not be all that interested.

    I say move the Red Bulls. NY hasn't shown any reason that they deserve a second team.

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    Yeah, seriously, how could a team called 'new york' which plays in New Jersey, which would then be competing with a team actually in New York, actually have any fans?

    they'd have to re-name it Red Bull New Jersey or there'd be no point to the whole thing.

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    Uhhh....how come New Yorkers don't have a problem supporting the Giants and the Jets even though they are both based in New Jersey? Seems like a bunch of baloney to me.

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    I would love to see a team in NY proper. Very diverse like Toronto and would do well imo. I would love to see them move a club there instead of expand, but not the cows, as I think they are hoping to drive ticket sales in NJ with a NY NJ rivalry. So ship the Crew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maninb View Post
    Absolutely disagree. Imagine if TFC was put in Pickering...They'd be drawing less than 5000 per game...Very same parallel..read the article..People in NYC WON'T go to new Jersey, but on their own turf they'd draw IMO 25,000+ EASY!
    Except for 2 American Football teams that both play in New Jersey and both sell out the Meadowlands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Except for 2 American Football teams that both play in New Jersey and both sell out the Meadowlands.
    Different scale of sport tho...
    if the Leafs moved to Pickering they would still sell out 100% of the time...
    TFC would have had a problem outside the city tho

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdrs View Post
    Different scale of sport tho...
    if the Leafs moved to Pickering they would still sell out 100% of the time...
    TFC would have had a problem outside the city tho
    I think that is Roogsy's point...Americans like throwball so they will go to see it. Not so much with footy though.
    Proud Supporter of: FC Bayern München, AIK Solna, Toronto FC, Nottingham Forest FC

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    Im all for this 'move TFC to Pickering' thing here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ACSertL View Post
    I think that is Roogsy's point...Americans like throwball so they will go to see it. Not so much with footy though.
    ah I see. could be... there is a big Latin and Italian population in NY tho and they may drive the support. It may very well be the resources aren't there to travel to NJ, but MLS tickets are affordable so if they were closer they might do very well. Plus nobody, except people in NJ want to support NJ... except bon jovi
    lol

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    why are we even commenting on this "article"? this is just MLS Rumors saying why they think it should happen, it means nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NF-FC View Post
    why are we even commenting on this "article"? this is just MLS Rumors saying why they think it should happen, it means nothing.
    We are discussing it. Why did you join a discussion to state how pointless it was? No one said it meant anything, we are discussing the plan for a second NY team which the league has said is a "when" not an "if" I think
    Last edited by bdrs; 06-17-2008 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdrs View Post
    ah I see. could be... there is a big Latin and Italian population in NY tho and they may drive the support. It may very well be the resources aren't there to travel to NJ, but MLS tickets are affordable so if they were closer they might do very well. Plus nobody, except people in NJ want to support NJ... except bon jovi
    lol
    Yeah I am not sure how to explain their poor numbers other than the fact that they just don't care much for footy. Also there are so many pro sports teams in that general area that perhaps the people over there are just too financially drained to spend money on all of the franchises and if there is any truth in that I would imagine footy is not exactly that high on New Yorkers' list of priorities.
    Proud Supporter of: FC Bayern München, AIK Solna, Toronto FC, Nottingham Forest FC

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdrs View Post
    We are discussing it. Why did you join a discussion to state how pointless it was? No one said it meant anything, we are discussing the plan for a second NY team which the league has said is a "when" not an "if" I think
    I got the impression that some people were taking this as news like something is actually going to happen.

    my personal opinion is that NY2 is a terrible idea. RBNY is unstable enough as it is, they don't need competition

 

 

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