The city can't sell any part of Exhibition place. It has restrictions placed on it by the provincial government.Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen
Overall, this is probably a good thing, as the place probably would have been turned into a forest of condos by now if the city had unlimited power to do whatever it wanted with the place. Short term profits to cover city deficits would have swayed the city into selling to developers.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Just as any Stadium hopes at Downsview park not going to happen. The plans and ideas keep popping up. But people need to be reminded that it's owned by the goverment of Canada. This is why the Toronto Legecy (yeah that silly Hockey team idea) had to remove plans for a Downsview arena and hotel off the website. I bet they were reminded that the Goverement probably won't sell that land anytime soon. Even though developlers would love to get thier hands on it.
I owned Argos season tickets from 2004 to 2007 and I was always of the opinion that the Rogers Centre suited the team just fine. Especially when they were competetive and were drawing 35,000 to 40,000 to some games. I'm not entirely sure what the logic of the Argos ownership would be in moving to a venue that can accommodate around 22,000 fans max. If they manage to be a competetive team again then I can see the per game average getting back well above 30,000 as in the Damon Allen years. Why would you turn away 10,000 fans per game ?. This whole thing smells like desperation from Argos ownership which has run out of ideas on how to improve the product on the field. With new ownership will come better results and this issue will die as it should.
^Finally the voice of a true argos fan. Don't they want to replicate Montreal. Smaller venue, sold out every game, hard to get tickets and all that?
If TFC sold 30,000 tickets a game, and played in a real grass version of the Roger's Centre, it would still not be great. Sold out games, help sell tickets.
Anyway. No Argos. No problem.
^ I have never been a fan of the comparison between BMO Field and Molson Stadium. Beyond the obvious similarity in capacity, differences in each stadium and the CFL team that plays in each city pop up.
- Molson Stadium was designed for Canadian football, whereas BMO Field clearly wasn't.
- The Argos already draw over 20k fans per game. Does anyone remember the Alouettes' attendance before the club moved to Molson Stadium? As I recall, it was very poor.
- The Argos had a favourable lease at the 'Dome in recent years. This may have been true for the Als at the Big Owe, but I doubt it.
At the end of the day, it makes little sense for a team to move into a smaller stadium if it's goal is to sell MORE tickets. Had the Argos been averaging 5 or 10k fans per game, a move to a venue like BMO would be financially viable. As great as the demand for Argos tickets would be at BMO, however, the club simply cannot sell more tickets there than it does at Skydome.
As long as we're making comparisons, I believe a much more apt comparison to Molson Stadium existed in the form of the old Varsity Stadium downtown. Varsity Stadium had a very similar seating capacity and configuration to what exists at Molson Stadium. Throw in the comparable histories of each venue and the fact that the Argos drew flies in the late '90s, and Varsity Stadium could have been to the Argos what Molson Stadium was to the Alouettes.
Last edited by Toronto Ruffrider; 12-20-2009 at 05:00 PM.
also, Argo fans would certainly see ticket price increases... and ticket scarcity. Most don't seem to realize that TFC per game prices are 37% (expensive seats) to 50% (cheap seats) higher than Argo per game ticket prices.
Are Argo fans willing to pay the extra price, in a stadium without the comforts of Skydome?
Bob McCown on PTS today discussed real grass at the Rogers Centre:
“This is being discussed. I don’t know what level it’s at. I have been told– I have heard that it may have already been decided that two years from now they are going to put grass in the Rogers Centre. No one has confirmed that to me, but that’s what’s out there.
“That the Toronto Argonauts have been informed to look for an alternative place to play, because the plan is to put natural grass in there, and the Blue Jays have no intention muck up their grass. So, whether it’s 100% or 50%– I think it’s one of those two– it’s at least being seriously discussed, and the target is probably the 2015 season. But it could be 2014.”
http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/1...sly-discussed/
Fuckin sweet. Early and late season TFC venue with grass and a retractable roof for those one off days when the weather is actually nice in October/November and March/April.
Perhaps their are benefits to a professional sports monopoly in this city after all?
Question is will the Argos to BMO field topic resurface soon if this is true and plays out.
Not as long as BMO has grass.
The Argos would turn it into a mud pit. Same reason that they would supposedly have to leave the Skydome. Plus BMO would have to be retrofitted since the pitch/field isn't big enough.
It would never happen because of this.
Agros need to pull their heads out from their asses and partner up with one of the universities and build their own stadium with 30,000k or so.
^We've all talked about that before but I still think it could happen.
My question is if either of the U of T/York deals had gone through that the Argos and CSA had been partnering on had gone through, how would have the issue of real grass been delt with? Because they would have had to for sure.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
MLSE needs to sell its share of BMO FIELD.........to the ARGO'S OF COURSE
AND THEN BUILD ITSELF A PROPER FOOOOOOOOOOKING FOOTIE STADE!!!!!!!
seriously THIS IDEA IS BRILLIANT!
MLSE needs to sell its share of BMO FIELD.........to the ARGO'S OF COURSE
AND THEN BUILD ITSELF A PROPER FOOOOOOOOOOKING FOOTIE STADE!!!!!!!
seriously THIS IDEA IS BRILLIANT!
Now we're talking!
You do know that the City of Toronto owns the stadium, right? MLSE doesn't own any shares, they are the operators of BMO Field. MLSE kicked in $8M of the $63M to build the stadium. They also secured the naming rights of the stadium for $10M but sold that to BMO for $27M.MLSE needs to sell its share of BMO FIELD.........to the ARGO'S OF COURSE
AND THEN BUILD ITSELF A PROPER FOOOOOOOOOOKING FOOTIE STADE!!!!!!!
seriously THIS IDEA IS BRILLIANT!
It likely would have started and permanently stayed as plastic turf if the Argos hadn't bailed. Any university would want some time on the field as well, if a stadium is being built on their campus. No way a grass field could withstand all that & still be semi-decent for footy. Maybe it even would have started as grass for the U20 cup, and then switched to plastic once the grass is trashed.
Or maybe this mean TFC moves to Sky Dome?
Jays will want real grass ASAP now that they have a possible winning team being built. Good for them.
This will be crunch time for the Argos. Within a couple years of winning the league in its centennial year they could likely be playing in temporary surroundings with huge hits to an attendance that was just injected with this championship season.
BMO is too small for them not speaking to the natural grass system that's not designed for gridiron.
I have no problem with BMO past winterizing. A roof is a nice idea but a second priority to me.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Where can a stadium be built? 2 years is a short time and hence why somehow I see them forcing their way into BMO. (yes I know about the field length issues and the North stand)
I know the study said it was not feasible but if not BMO where?
York U's PAN AM stadium?
Yes. They can play anywhere there is room for them temporarily while they announce their future plans.
It's cheaper and is less friction than taking out a stand in BMO they just built and uprooting/discarding the million dollar pitch they are presently putting in.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
With most NFL teams and the old NASL teams who have used baseball parks for home games-- they have to play over a dirt infield or you put into temp grass that never matches up.
Real sexy that.
Do you not remember were the Lions and Whitecaps played in 2011? It was a much much nicer venue than BMO and it cost 14 million and sat 27000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Field
When I look at BMO I can't see how it cost more than 8 Million-- let's be honest it's a high school stadium on steriods that was done on the cheap. MLSE STYLE!
It was the CSA under Kevan Pipe that designed the stadium and set the budget. ML$E had nothing to do with the design or costing. ML$E was brought in later as a partner after the Argos bailed, and oversaw construction (on time and on budget, btw), but was forced to take the already designed stadium. What ML$E did afterwards was add some washrooms and concessions, and build 1 new stand plus some table seating, all at their expense with no city or CSA help, even though they don't own the place. Sorry, you can fault them for a lot of things, but not the stadium.
In 2007, BMO Field was way better than the pointy ball and baseball stadiums where most MLS teams played at the time. It was even better than the Krew's SSS. It only looks cheap by today's standards.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 12-19-2012 at 09:21 PM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Still better then playing on turf at the Skydome or at BMO in very cold weather IMHO.
Really?? Did you ever go there?? It was a glorified scaffold. The teams changed in portables. Check out this link to see photos of them "building" their "stadium". I really don't understand the hate on for BMO. If you have ever gone to any away games and see the other stadiums prior to our build, our stadium was really nice. Crew Stadium is....well it was the first ever SSS so I give it that. All the other stadiums are too big and cavernous for MLS (ie. Gillette Stadium, Giants Stadium, even RFK). Sure now we are getting nicer stadiums being built. Same goes with everything. Look at kits, boots, balls, etc. Everything changes for the better.
Also it's not MLSE's fault on design. I thank God MLSE stepped up. If it wasn't for those "idiots," there would be no TFC. Sure they have made some horrid football decisions but hey, that conversation does not belong in this thread.
In response to some people wondering why the Argos would want to move. It's really a simple one. They want full control of concessions and ticket revenue; something they don't have at Rogers.
edit: There is nothing in any article that says that but all that info comes from my research for my C.E.T. Technical Report (Chose to do a feasibility study/building of a new stadium for the Argos). I have spoken to various people within the organization and that is what they told me
Last edited by David_Oliveira; 12-19-2012 at 11:49 PM.
The CSA, MLSE and Argos should partner up and build a state-of-the-art stadium with removable grass like Veltins-Arena.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veltins-Arena
^Nice stadium but I think we'd need to attract 50k to a game to make it worth it.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
They can have a similar setup in the BC Place stadium where they block out the upper stand.
I think when it comes down to it, MLSE and the people who run TFC know the value of having a SSS (or at least one that is free of football markings and has grass). They aren't going to let the CFL step on their business and will put up a fight.
I think either way fans shouldn't be complacent, but I have confidence we aren't going to be disposed so easily. BMO field has major obstacles for a CFL team to move in. It's not just about one grand-stand, it's about sideline space, locker-room space, and a whole bunch of other things. Basically the place needs to be entirely torn down and rebuilt if it's going to be used for CFL football. Not only that but in terms of total amount of times the facility is used for soccer (CSA matches, friendlies, etc...) it makes more sense to continue in that direction rather than allow one football team in to play a handful of games a year.
Maybe long-run something like Veltins is the answer. Seattle draws 40k a game, if TFC was run properly, I think it could as well. All the teams could fit in one facility happily, but it will take some time... Argos will need a better financial backer as well, because the elephant in the room for their team is that ownership hasn't shown commitment to spending on a stadium or doesn't have the money.
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