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    Default Onward - Some amusing TFC stats


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    so what i see is OBW needs to be one of the 2 strikers to start (would have more goals than dero) ,

    and we need a better striker to come in and fill the other spot and score at a goal every 150min rate (or better)

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    Being a statistician in a few sports, I can safely say that statistics are mainly useful in explaining why something isn't successful........

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachGT View Post
    Being a statistician in a few sports, I can safely say that statistics are mainly useful in explaining why something isn't successful........
    In other words, it really isn't able to explain/identify what helps succeed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Knight View Post
    And the point is?????????

    Btw Ben, you lose credibility with me as soon as you distort things to suit your needs. How many minutes since VITTI last played as a striker?

    What was the point of even mentioning him in the discussion?

    I'm interested to see where you're going with this. I hope it isn't some meaningless rant about how much better we would have done if DD wasn't pushed out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    And the point is?????????

    Btw Ben, you lose credibility with me as soon as you distort things to suit your needs. How many minutes since VITTI last played as a striker?

    What was the point of even mentioning him in the discussion?

    I'm interested to see where you're going with this. I hope it isn't some meaningless rant about how much better we would have done if DD wasn't pushed out.
    Agreed 100%. I didn't want to read on as soon as I first read "Pablo Who". If you're going to deal with statistics, try to check your biases at the door.

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    "Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that."

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    Quote Originally Posted by colman1860 View Post
    Agreed 100%. I didn't want to read on as soon as I first read "Pablo Who". If you're going to deal with statistics, try to check your biases at the door.
    Exactly how I felt.

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    I'd have to agree with you guys. The bias does come through clear with that dig at Pablo.

    Nonetheless...unless the argument is that Pablo plays a less forward position than DeRo, (which I don't believe he has done) then the argument for underachieving is still valid I think.

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    I think that even though Vitti did have most of his appearances up front, he's more of a supporting striker than an out an out scorer. The article's stats deal only with goals, and lead to the conclusion that Vitti is useless.

    Having watched Vitti throughout the season, I'd argue that he's far from useless. He's probably the most talented player on the team, but has had a lot of trouble adjusting to the league. He was also used in a bunch of different roles, few of which he was comfortable in. He hasn't been able to reach his full potential here (or anywhere), but when it does come through in flashes I wish that we could find a coach who would be able to bring it out permanently.

    I digress - the Vitti argument is not for this thread. Perhaps Ben should try to cover the sport without using statistics as much - footy doesn't lend itself to numbers as much as most North American sports do. But Ben, if you must use numbers, please try to be fair in your analysis.

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    I agree but only to a degree colman. After all...shouldn't forward of ANY sort have more goals than a defender like Nana?

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    Perhaps Ben's argument is going to be that DeRo should be (despite his stated desires) playing an out-and-out striker position for us?

    Both the stats that Ben's posted and the ones that I've previously posted suggest that he should be playing further forward that he wants to.

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    I think the ex-Aberdeen manager Ebbe Skovdahl said it best; "Statistics are just like mini-skirts, they give you good ideas but hide the most important thing."

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    I don't know how amusing these stats are. They made me angry. At least there was not an indepth look at points lost in the last 15 minutes of regulation time - that set of stats really sucked.
    Father. . . Husband. . . Freemason. . . Redpatch Boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by colman1860 View Post
    I think that even though Vitti did have most of his appearances up front, he's more of a supporting striker than an out an out scorer. The article's stats deal only with goals, and lead to the conclusion that Vitti is useless.

    Having watched Vitti throughout the season, I'd argue that he's far from useless. He's probably the most talented player on the team, but has had a lot of trouble adjusting to the league. He was also used in a bunch of different roles, few of which he was comfortable in. He hasn't been able to reach his full potential here (or anywhere), but when it does come through in flashes I wish that we could find a coach who would be able to bring it out permanently.

    I digress - the Vitti argument is not for this thread. Perhaps Ben should try to cover the sport without using statistics as much - footy doesn't lend itself to numbers as much as most North American sports do. But Ben, if you must use numbers, please try to be fair in your analysis.
    not only goals, he did mention assists

    [FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Cunningham, by the way, added eight assists. Barrett-Gerba-White-Pablo Who? combined for four. Dichio had two.
    [/font]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Knight View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    I'm interested to see where you're going with this. I hope it isn't some meaningless rant about how much better we would have done if DD wasn't pushed out.
    Surprise surprise.

    Ben....did you know:

    TFC has been terrible for 3 years now. Two of which with Dichio as the focal attacking option.

    Seriously, what is the point of this blog? What are you trying to say? Come out with it.

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    To be honest Voodoo...I have to wonder if this team would have made the playoffs had they played Danny just a little more?

    Does anyone have the stat as to how many games we suffered those late game goals when Danny was on the pitch? (Ben does mention that we were 5-2-1 with Danny playing...you can't ignore that stat.)

    Yes, TFC is pretty bad, but the question in every fans mind right now is, aren't we a tad bit better with Danny? And if so, why was he pushed out? It really points to how this team is being managed when important things like winning are put aside to satisfy agendas within the team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    To be honest Voodoo...I have to wonder if this team would have made the playoffs had they played Danny just a little more?

    Does anyone have the stat as to how many games we suffered those late game goals when Danny was on the pitch? (Ben does mention that we were 5-2-1 with Danny playing...you can't ignore that stat.)

    Yes, TFC is pretty bad, but the question in every fans mind right now is, aren't we a tad bit better with Danny? And if so, why was he pushed out? It really points to how this team is being managed when important things like winning are put aside to satisfy agendas within the team.
    I agree that the team is being mis managed by Mo and the coaching staff but I think people get too wrapped up with "Dichio the Saviour" and it's just not th case. Dichio had his share of bad games and his body was fading too.

    I appreciate what Danny gave this club as a player but he wasn't the answer to our problems...imo of course.

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    ^ I thought Ben mentioned that - 4 wins 5 draws 7 losses when he came off the bench. Does that mean that he's the cause?

    I'd suggest that indicates that TFC was looking for offence and loosening up on their defensive responsibilities when Danny came into the game later. Danny isn't known for being the first guy back in his own end (nor should he be) but if he replaces Barrett, for example, Barrett does have that ability to get involved in the play deep in his own half and provide an extra measure of support for the midfield, allowing them to drop back a little more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    I appreciate what Danny gave this club as a player but he wasn't the answer to our problems...imo of course.
    No, but it does point to a symptom behind the scenes when a quality player gets pushed out and there is no quality player to replace him.

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    This is clearly an intro into the whole Danny saga. I'm sure these blog entries will lead into what really happened when Danny retired in the fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    I appreciate what Danny gave this club as a player but he wasn't the answer to our problems...imo of course.
    He wasn't the answer to our problems, you are right on that. We need a striker or two who can finish, we needed a proper CB and we needed to be more tactical with our game.

    But, DD did change our game when he was on the pitch. He brought something to the game that allowed us to compete even with those handicaps that i listed above.

    Wether it was inspiration for other players to step up thier game or wether it was a physical presence to allow others to break free, you can't deny that once he came on, you couldn't help but think at least the game was about to change, most probably in our favour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    He wasn't the answer to our problems, you are right on that. We need a striker or two who can finish, we needed a proper CB and we needed to be more tactical with our game.

    But, DD did change our game when he was on the pitch. He brought something to the game that allowed us to compete even with those handicaps that i listed above.

    Wether it was inspiration for other players to step up thier game or wether it was a physical presence to allow others to break free, you can't deny that once he came on, you couldn't help but think at least the game was about to change, most probably in our favour.

    Absolutely agree 100%. Especially the bolded part.

    I just question Knights reasoning for posting this blog now. I agree with a previous poster that this is probably a segway into the whole Danny story. (although I'm looking forward to the Molinaro story more than Knights version)

    I just don't want the supporters dwelling on the past as it relates to Dichio when it comes to fixing this team for the future.

    Even if Dichio had played more down the stretch...and even if we had made the playoffs as a result...it doesn't take away from the fact that in 2010 and moving forward, we would have been without Dichio.

    So what if Dichio playing more would have helped us make the playoffs this year. It would have just help to mask the real problems with this club....coaching and management.

    Most would agree that our roster is more than capable of competing..and I agree. Short of a few crappy players that get too much playing time, this team is good...on paper.

    I hope Knights slant is going to be showing that the shitty way that the club treated Dichio is an example of how poorly this club is managed. As opposed to a piece that gushes about how good Dichio is/was and how much he could have helped us on the field this year...which in my opinion is useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    Even if Dichio had played more down the stretch...and even if we had made the playoffs as a result...it doesn't take away from the fact that in 2010 and moving forward, we would have been without Dichio.

    So what if Dichio playing more would have helped us make the playoffs this year. It would have just help to mask the real problems with this club....coaching and management.

    Most would agree that our roster is more than capable of competing..and I agree. Short of a few crappy players that get too much playing time, this team is good...on paper.

    I hope Knights slant is going to be showing that the shitty way that the club treated Dichio is an example of how poorly this club is managed. As opposed to a piece that gushes about how good Dichio is/was and how much he could have helped us on the field this year...which in my opinion is useless.
    Agree 100%.

    This team should have been able to compete with or without Danny. In fact, it should have been ready to be without Danny since his intention to retire was always clear. Instead, the rest of the team folded like a cheap suit and it is apparent Mo is back in the same mode he goes into each off-season, which is to spout off a bunch of clichés but do nothing.

    I also hope that Ben's piece highlights the mismanagement of this team as opposed to how good Danny is, and I think he will do that. Danny is gone. We're thankful for what he did for us. But this team needs to look forward and be ready without him on the pitch. Shoot...I am a huge fan of Danny but even I realize that he was all heart but less on skill.

    Could it be that is what is wrong with this team? Danny was all the heart they ever had? If that's the truth...who is to blame and where do we get some of that Danny-power?

 

 

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