The TorontoFC.ca article has prompted to write a little something...

[ua-kozak_TFC]

I think there is a problem with the distinction of supporter no mater what... I think mostly its because people don;t realize what defines a supporter...

Now for some reason a lot of people think athat NOT being happy about your team... and what is happening around them and how they are managed... means that you aer somehow disrespecting, and not being supporter.. And somehow you;ll just because of the BAD result that you will just STOP following the team all of a sudden and not care how they DO... I think for most of the people if not ALL who come to this board and are associated with TFC supporter or season ticket holder is not the case. Just because you are not happy where this team is going... we are not going to shut off our computers and just ignore all information about TFC until... they start winning... NO. All of us we will still check the website in the off season, mls rumours, and the redpatch boys few times a day going to watch those insignificant friendlies that we often loose in the offseason to hear news about this team... and care about who other trialist who's name we can barely pronounce, lets not even talk about recognizing it. That is being a SUPPORTER...
Although you know that the team is rotten and in bad situation you still care and what to know what is happening to them... THAT does not mean that all of sudden that the team is in a bad shape we'll start following MOntreal Impacts or Vancouver or whatever...
HENCE UNHAPPYNESS DOESN't EQUAL TREASON....
And for some reason that is what i feel its implyied.. too often by a lot of people on this board and specially by this article...
And that for some reason DO BE a SUPPORTER... IMPLIES FAKING HAPPINESS and just deny or ignore the bad things. Although pessims for no reason is never good ( I consider myself the most optimistic person you could find)... Yet Sometimes you have to be objective and at a point and and if you have to point out rthe bad things as what they are ...and being positive in that situation... becomes just fooling yourself. And doesn;t really help.


THAT said let me clarifysomething, and correct me if i am wrong.. But i believe i speak for many supporters when i say this.
UNHAPPINESS/CRITISISM DOESN:T MEAN YOU ARE NOT A SUPPORTER.
BY THE SAME TOKEN
HAPPYNESS/OPTIMISM DOESN:T MEAN YOU ARE MORE OF A SUPPORTER "BECAUSE YOU SUPPORT THE TEAM THROUGH THICK AND THIN."

ALSO I think both of the fans who are "anti MO" and those who are willing to give him more time or "for MO" (since there has been a clear division) ARE SUPPORTING THE team THROUGH THICK and thin... And being on this board and caring about what happens prooves that point.

Now both the optimistic and pessimistic views at things can hurt and hinder the progress depending on the situation you are. We just have too look at the past and the record and make an objective decision. From what it seems that many supporters lost confidence in MO/club management... but THAT doesn;t mean they stopped being supporter and even less so doesn;t mean that they are "bandwagonners" for calling things as they are...

[Beach_Red]

Yes, you're right.

The problem with the article was that it was on an official team website. It's one thing to post that here - and quite appropriate - but for the team to do it, and so obviously in response to a yet another bad ending to a season is what makes it frustrating.

You're right, unhappiness does not equal treason.

[trane]

^ That was exactly my feeling about that article, very inapropriate for those who take our money, but do not deliver to call any of us disloyal for asking for more.

[Parkdale]

It was a very poorly timed article.

http://www.mlsnet.com//news/team_new....jsp&team=t280

link to the article

[Roogsy]

Another boneheaded move by the organization. I rarely use these but, in this case, it is so appropriate.



Seriously...chastising your own paying fans. Who thought this would be a great idea days after losing 5-0 and cementing a glorious 12th place finish?

[Parkdale]

To me the prizbies of the world are reliable people and mature supporters. They understand that being a sports fan and a human being is a lifelong grind that isn't about winning or losing so much as the side you are on. It's about your principles.

yeah, but when the club fucks up (yes, I said it, the club has fucked up) then it's up to the supporters to let them know.

no one is going to support montreal instead of toronto, and that's not the issue.

the issue is simple:



TFC HAS BEEN A FAILURE ON THE FIELD, AND THE SUPPORTERS (AND REAL FANS) ARE SICK OF THE EXCUSES AND LIES

[billyfly]

The timing (to me) is not that bad b/c its contemporary to the situation.

They wrote it b/c they must have read these boards and think there is open revolt (maybe and maybe not).

The problem is the wound is still fresh so lots of us are taking offense.

[TFC Tifoso]

I see being a supporter as something akin to being a parent........

You always want the best for your child (team), and sometimes you will get upset at them, very upset, but not because you don't love them.....it is because you feel as though they are capable of accomplising so much more, and want them to maximize potential, and realize that sometimes, it will take a change (ie. fire Mo, get rid of players) to reach that potential.

You never stop loving your kid, much like the team (and by team I mean strictly the badge and the colours).

....and yes it is an extremely poorly timed article......part damage control, and part insulting supporters' intelligence.....

[tfcleeds]

The timing (to me) is not that bad b/c its contemporary to the situation.

They wrote it b/c they must have read these boards and think there is open revolt (maybe and maybe not).

The problem is the wound is still fresh so lots of us are taking offense.

But if they really understood what the supporter's groups are all about, they would know there is no open revolt.

We are entitled to be a little bit pissed off right now, and articles like this, telling us what we should be and how we should act, do not help.

[Parkdale]

....and yes it is an extremely poorly timed article......part damage control, and part insulting supporters' intelligence.....

I think they might have thought it would be a good counter point to the actual newspaper articles coming out about the breakup of the locker room. There must have been some reasoning behind releasing the piece, but I really don't know what they would try to prove (other than simply saying 'these colours don't run')

[Parkdale]

ps. nice avatar TFC Leeds!


'May I take your trident sir?'

[TFC Tifoso]

I think they might have thought it would be a good counter point to the actual newspaper articles coming out about the breakup of the locker room. There must have been some reasoning behind releasing the piece, but I really don't know what they would try to prove (other than simply saying 'these colours don't run')

possibly, but the problem with that is that newspapers are supposed to be presenting an "unbaised" point of view.....this on the other hand is coming from a team website, with an implied bias....

I don't want a sugarcookie article lecturing me on how to be a supporter.....I already know how........I want the team to say they are committed to making some fucking changes here.

All this article does is further my belief that the team knows nothing about soccer culture or supporters' culture.....

[billyfly]

But if they really understood what the supporter's groups are all about, they would know there is no open revolt.

We are entitled to be a little bit pissed off right now, and articles like this, telling us what we should be and how we should act, do not help.

Do we really know? Really? How do you judge this?

MLSE is under attack from almost every angle.

[Parkdale]

All this article does is further my belief that the team knows nothing about soccer culture or supporters' culture.....

I see it slightly different (no surprise there).

I think it shows that they really really want to be 'down' with the supporters, but don't understand that for the most part, supporters and the Clubs themselves are totally independent. It's not the job of the club to make banners and lead chants - save that for the NBA / NFL. Their job is to create a winning squad, and our job is to support than squad (and thank the club when they've done something right). It's two distinct things, and this article says to me that they are trying to straddle the fence.

[trane]

ps. nice avatar TFC Leeds!


'May I take your trident sir?'

I love that movie. One of my favourite ever. " May I go to the bathroom?"
" Go ahead"-------Steve Martin makes a face which clearly shows he is in fact going to the bathroom "Thanks".

[billyfly]

^that's the exact scene I remember.

[Parkdale]

^that's the exact scene I remember.

OKLAHOMA
OKLAHOMAOKLAHOMA
OKLAHOMA
OKLAHOMAOKLAHOMAOKLAHOMA

[CoachGT]

I see being a supporter as something akin to being a parent........

I'll always love you, but right now, I just don't like you very much.

[trane]

billyfly,

How can you forget that scene?

[TFC Tifoso]

I see it slightly different (no surprise there).

I think it shows that they really really want to be 'down' with the supporters, but don't understand that for the most part, supporters and the Clubs themselves are totally independent. It's not the job of the club to make banners and lead chants - save that for the NBA / NFL. Their job is to create a winning squad, and our job is to support than squad (and thank the club when they've done something right). It's two distinct things, and this article says to me that they are trying to straddle the fence.

no, I actually think we are saying the same here in the last part....keep in mind when I say "team" I mean "powers that be within the team".

where we differ is that I don't think this article shows that they want to be "down" with us......it is no more than an attempt at damage control. People take shit on this board all the time with the "Don't tell me how to be a supporter" line....this article dioes nothing different.

and while I agree that our job is to support the squad, I feel VERY STRONGLY that what truly defines a supporter (and what I mean as supporters' culture) is that they also give the team heat when things aren't so good, in order to always try and keep them honest.....once complacentcy sets in, things get fucked.

[TFC Tifoso]

I'll always love you, but right now, I just don't like you very much.

exactly, and further than that......understanding what it will take in order to see your "child" maximize its potential and be the best it can.

on the converse.....you ever see that parent who is always convinced that their kid can do no wrong no matter what?.......ummm, yeah.......

[tfcleeds]

I love that movie. One of my favourite ever. " May I go to the bathroom?"
" Go ahead"-------Steve Martin makes a face which clearly shows he is in fact going to the bathroom "Thanks".

Yeah, just watched it again a few nights ago. One of my faves.

[Whoop]

Wow... who would have thought demanding excellence, accountability - results - would be a bad thing?

And to criticize your fans, be it the hardcore supporters or the "bandwagoners"?

Not only is that a stupid move, that guy should be fired.

[trane]

My summary of the article, in light of the source;


Keep giving us money, and shut the fuck up

[billyfly]

billyfly,

How can you forget that scene?

Oh I haven't.

[Whoop]

My summary of the article, in light of the source;


Keep giving us money, and shut the fuck up

Pretty much it.

First rule of thumb of owning a sports team: Don't criticize your fans in public.

You might be able to treat them as naive or gullible but to be critical of them in public is akin to committing suicide.

I would laugh at would happen if this article was published in regards to Leafs fans.

Are the people at MLSE seriously this f'in stupid?

[olegunnar]

Are the people at MLSE seriously this f'in stupid?

I think there's a bit of arrogance in terms of who steers the ship. Add to that a gross underestimation of the sophistication of the average supporter...and we get this crap.

Kind of a ...I'll get someone to write a blog about thick and thin....that'll get those teenage internet drunks of the rpb forum banded together and turn their frowns upside down.

Edit to clarify...I'm not calling RPBs names...I'm making an educated guess at the thought process behind publishing an article at this time on the franchise's website

[MrHawk]

[Super]

Wow - just WOW! TFC is truly a nightmare when it comes to public relations. The only, the ONLY, reason why Toronto FC has a positive name in this city is because of its fans creating an atmosphere that is fun and exciting. The play itself has been far from stellar, and the organization itself is deserving of a no confidence vote. This article is a slap in the face of all of us, and I truly hope to never read an article again on the site from this douchebag. How dare he. How dare they?

Also, the whole "Liverpool brings hardship to any fan" is quite funny when you count the following trophies in the last 10 years:

FA Cup: 2001, 2006
League Cup: 2001, 2003
Charity Shield: 2001, 2006
UEFA Cup: 2001
UEFA Super Cup: 2001, 2005

And, oh, a little trophy from the Champions League: 2005

Add to that the fact that Liverpool is a contender pretty much every year.

No offense to the Liverpool supporters on here - I get the fact that the club has to live up to much higher expectations than the other 99% of clubs in the world, but it's hardly a loser and disappointing organization like TFC on ANY LEVEL.

[tfcleeds]

Telling members of a supporters group to support the club through thick and thin =



The majority of us on here will never abandon the club, but we have a right to be critical and to be vocal in that criticism.