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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaughno View Post
    I believe you PAY to get the PSL, then PAY for your tickets. That's my understanding. The PSL is basically just ownership of the seat.
    got a call about reds this year (ACC) seat license was $17,500 per seat ... PB mentioned a figure of 100k before - not sure if this is open market for platinum or what ... so that $17,500 is for both leafs and raps, both of which have significantly more games and much high ticket cost ~$140 ea ... as MLSE doesn't own BMO not sure they would be able to work the same system for TFC ... once you buy this you have the ability to transfer (sell) ownership to the seats - something we don't get under the current system for TFC

    PS. yeah the tickets are in addition to the seat license, it would just create an open market for seasons ticket rights, most people would sell thier rights rather than release them back to the club, as such waiting list becomes rather meaningless
    Last edited by RedMAN127; 09-15-2009 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ageroo View Post
    I am not sure....but new season ticket purchasers seem to always have a bit added on to them...or at least I think they did for people last season. I just see the invoice and then hit the 3 stage payement as always.....my 4 seats in the Supporters and light greys were $1268.00 + 12.00 handling fee...so 1380.00 total.
    Handle my ass... Next we'll have to fork over "convenience fees", or "paper and ink tax" or some other cockamany crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigfynn View Post
    Still total bullshit IMO.

    Make me pay more for what I basically already have now.
    It also allows you to transfer your season tix to someone else (so you could sell the rights to your seats rather than just give them up).

    I don't like 'em - just saying is all....

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty_torontofc_2008 View Post
    for all the fans that are complaing about a possible Seasons ticket raise,
    are you the ones that want a DP? Grass? If you thought we could get those without a raise in the season tickets, your out of it.. add to the Fact we will have a game with Philadelphia Union next season the prices
    would have gone up anyways. Becarefuk what you ask for,dp/grass you may have to pay for it!1
    By that rationale, when we didn't get grass and we didn't have DP, what was the excuse for not keeping the price the same, especially for a first or second year team?

    TFC missed their chance last year to earn some brownie points by NOT increasing rates and then doing so this year when they had something to show, a Canadian championship, a DP and grass in view. Instead, regardless of win or no win, DP or no DP, grass or no grass, great season or crappy season, we can expect increases. Like I said...that's great for maximizing profits...lousy for keeping customers happy.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    TFC missed their chance last year to earn some brownie points by NOT increasing rates and then doing so this year when they had something to show, a Canadian championship, a DP and grass in view. Instead, regardless of win or no win, DP or no DP, grass or no grass, great season or crappy season, we can expect increases.
    it will always go up. everything goes. everything.

    I'm not defending them, but I'm just saying that EVERYTHING gets more expensive as time move on. Acting like it shouldn't wont change anything.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMAN127 View Post
    got a call about reds this year (ACC) seat license was $17,500 per seat ... PB mentioned a figure of 100k before - not sure if this is open market for platinum or what ... so that $17,500 is for both leafs and raps, both of which have significantly more games and much high ticket cost ~$140 ea ... as MLSE doesn't own BMO not sure they would be able to work the same system for TFC ... once you buy this you have the ability to transfer (sell) ownership to the seats - something we don't get under the current system for TFC
    I've had an open market quote of about 50k for ACC golds....approx 25k for the license and 25k for the seats, if I recall correctly before I hung up

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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty_torontofc_2008 View Post
    for all the fans that are complaing about a possible Seasons ticket raise,
    are you the ones that want a DP? Grass? If you thought we could get those without a raise in the season tickets, your out of it.. add to the Fact we will have a game with Philadelphia Union next season the prices
    would have gone up anyways. Becarefuk what you ask for,dp/grass you may have to pay for it!1

  8. #128
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    my invoice isn't up yet....
    but I'm pretty close to the end of the alphabetical list.

    $200 in 2007
    $240 in 2008
    $280 in 2009
    $320 in 2010

    this is getting stupid.

    Also, as the prices go up...the more scalping that will occur....the more beer chuckers and goofballs that will get into the stadium....

    TFC FO....please start looking at the big picture and long-term.

    I have paid $1,440 over 3 years to stand in the south end...cheer my face off.
    Go on road trips, by the gear, etc....

    And all we've been given is a single miracle victory over a USL team....and a massive price increase.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    my invoice isn't up yet....
    but I'm pretty close to the end of the alphabetical list.

    $200 in 2007
    $240 in 2008
    $280 in 2009
    $320 in 2010
    $380 in 2011
    $425 in 2012
    $490 in 2013

    this is getting stupid.

    Also, as the prices go up...the more scalping that will occur....the more beer chuckers and goofballs that will get into the stadium....

    TFC FO....please start looking at the big picture and long-term.

    I have paid $1,440 over 3 years to stand in the south end...cheer my face off.
    Go on road trips, by the gear, etc....

    And all we've been given is a single miracle victory over a USL team....and a massive price increase.
    Added my projections for the next two renewals for those not getting the trend.

    Like I said, they are pricing the people that WANT to be there.. out of the stadium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TorontoBlades View Post
    you're right it's flawed because I'm sure they get paid bonus and incentives on short term metrics, when in fact it should be a mix of short and long-term and intangible metrics....but how can you motivate people with long-term goals when turnover in the workforce is increasing all over the place.....
    That is always the problem. In fact it is a factor that contributes to the symptoms we see before us.

    Paul B's ultimate goal probably isn't to stay head of TFC. It's probably to move back to the Raptors or maybe even Leaf-land. Or maybe even outside of MLSE...maybe he'd like a job in a FO somewhere in the NFL? Therefore, he has to show results. The only results that contributes to his job security and promotion is the bottom line. Winning only matters if it brings in additional revenue that contributes to that bottom line (obviously it does). But the ultimate goal is obviously ROI.

    There are very few long-term executives in sports. It's one of the most volatile employment positions I have ever been exposed to and isn't condusive to looking at things long-term.

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    The "things always go up" line is a little misleading.
    I'm not sure if you checked the news this spring/summer...but there was a global economic downturn/recession/market correction.

    I deal with procurement on occasion.
    and with things getting tight...most firms have "sharpened their pencil" in terms of pricing. A lot of things are back at the pricing they were at 5 years ago....
    so to say that the cost of business is going up...it's not always True.

    If MLSE has competitive bidding on things like Printing, Supplies, etc....it is possible that they, like most companies, are seeing REDUCED pricing this year and next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Paul B's ultimate goal probably isn't to stay head of TFC. It's probably to move back to the Raptors or maybe even Leaf-land.
    why would he choose to stop being a big fish in a small pond, unless the cash is that much greater (which I doubt it would be).

    jeeze.... I know that most people think Paul B and the FO don't even like the sport - and that's just not true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    The "things always go up" line is a little misleading.
    I'm not sure if you checked the news this spring/summer...but there was a global economic downturn/recession/market correction.
    yes, there was a downturn, but that just means people were taking a loss on items to to keep inventory moving. The big car companies were selling cars for cheaper just to keep them moving out of the factory because if they shut down the plant, they'd be finished.

    and hell... I've heard lapdances at stripjoints are up to $30 a song now. I can't confirm this..... but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaughno View Post
    Added my projections for the next two renewals for those not getting the trend.

    Like I said, they are pricing the people that WANT to be there.. out of the stadium.
    $200 in 2007
    $240 in 2008
    $280 in 2009
    $320 in 2010
    $360 in 2011
    $400 in 2012
    $440 in 2013

    it looks like a round $40 dollar increase first four years if that is any indication; the increases will have to be scalled back at some point ... also did we get CCL tickets first year? think we had two friendlies first two years, so the number of tickets last two years is -1 I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olegunnar View Post
    Really?
    I agree that the magic 8 ball would say "all signs point to yes" but I keep getting stuck at the "this is MLS soccer were talking about" point.

    I can't say, MLS soccer will have teams with PSLs with a straight face.

    It's MLS soccer.

    i completely agree with your train of thought, but just remember, while the demand is still ripe for the milking the execs at mlse are looking into their 8 ball that reads, "go get it while the gettins good"

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    Well, we'll get some money back, if(when) they don't make the playoffs.

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    I've met Mr. Paul a couple of times.
    and he seems like a good guy.
    I don't envy his situation though...to maintain his cool job, he has to feed the beast that is the teachers' pension fund....and no matter how much he feeds them they want more....if he feeds them 100 steaks today, they want 110 tomorrow...

    Mr. Paul = Princess Leia on the leash.
    Teachers Pension = Jabba the Hutt.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    it will always go up. everything goes. everything.

    I'm not defending them, but I'm just saying that EVERYTHING gets more expensive as time move on. Acting like it shouldn't wont change anything.
    Actually my friend, you are incorrect in your analysis of what essentially you are trying to explain, something called inflation.

    The general trend yes is up. But the graphline isn't a straight line that heads up all the time. It's jagged. Most things go up and down with the general trend pointing up but with the ebbs and flows of market demand and conditions. Your statement is akin to saying all stocks go up. If that were the case...what did we see this year in the markets? All products have highs and lows. Ebbs and flows.

    A computer last year may or may not be more expensive this year.

    A movie ticket may or may not be more expensive this year. (In fact, Cineplex just announced lower ticket prices on some evenings, re-introducing the "Tuesday night" deal.

    A car may or may not be more expensive this year. (In fact, this year highlights this fact nicely as there were incredible deals to be had.)

    Food is one of the most inflationary products anywhere...and even THAT isn't guaranteed to be higher the next year over previous years.

    So a product like a season ticket, being a marketable commodity, should see the same. And the market to a degree does dictate that very fact. Look at Jays tickets today compared to the early 90s when they were winning World Series. So being a first year team that exceeded all expectations by light-years, you would think that the team would've been able to keep price increases in the first renewal to zero. They didn't. And that's when I said to myself..."oh oh". This year, I can understand a price increase with the success of the CCL and the DP. But that only reaffirms my fear that we will never see a year where this team holds price increases to zero...regardless of the issues sorrounding the team. That is unless fans start staying away and we wind up looking like Columbus with half-filled stadiums. What the team doesn't realize is that with every price increase, that is exactly what they will wind up with if they are not careful. It's sad that what it takes is customer apathy for teams to start making an effort with customers again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagner View Post
    I've met Mr. Paul a couple of times.
    and he seems like a good guy.
    I don't envy his situation though...to maintain his cool job, he has to feed the beast that is the teachers' pension fund....and no matter how much he feeds them they want more....if he feeds them 100 steaks today, they want 110 tomorrow...

    Mr. Paul = Princess Leia on the leash.
    Teachers Pension = Jabba the Hutt.

    I've met Paul too...Leia is much more pretty. LOL!

    I don't even want to see him in a gold bikini. Ever.

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    ^ oh right... I forgot you are the ace bean counter
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorontoBlades View Post
    but how can you motivate people with long-term goals when turnover in the workforce is increasing all over the place.....
    it would never EVER happen under mlse ownership but it could go something like:

    allow (like seattle, some euro clubs) supporters to have a voting say in who's running the team. the same supporters would have a say tying in performance to pay, ie) playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    why would he choose to stop being a big fish in a small pond, unless the cash is that much greater (which I doubt it would be).

    jeeze.... I know that most people think Paul B and the FO don't even like the sport - and that's just not true.
    Who said anything about liking the sport or not? This is about a career which is what this is for Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roogsy View Post
    Who said anything about liking the sport or not?
    This is about a career which is what this is for Paul.
    yes, it's a career, but wouldn't every single person on the planet
    pick a career in an area they really like over one that isn't as enjoyable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    yes, there was a downturn, but that just means people were taking a loss on items to to keep inventory moving. The big car companies were selling cars for cheaper just to keep them moving out of the factory because if they shut down the plant, they'd be finished.

    and hell... I've heard lapdances at stripjoints are up to $30 a song now. I can't confirm this..... but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
    I've heard some clubs are offering 2 for 1 lap dances my friend.

    I don't ever want you managing my money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    it will always go up. everything goes. everything.

    I'm not defending them, but I'm just saying that EVERYTHING gets more expensive as time move on. Acting like it shouldn't wont change anything.

    not true.

    its WELL documented that we're in deflationary times. sure, inflation rises in the long term, but like roogsy said, they, in the short term, had a chance to do the right thing and earn some credibility.

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    That's why the coolest Team owners aren't corporations.
    Mark Cuban,
    Artie Moreno...
    they are more about the team....if they lose a couple million, who cares....they had fun, and the fans benefitted.

    When Moreno bought the LA Angels, one of his first orders of business....lower beer prices....
    can you imagine, in a big market like Metro LA....lowering beer prices...and his team is good...they win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobodybeatsthewiz View Post
    not true.

    its WELL documented that we're in deflationary times. sure, inflation rises in the long term, but like roogsy said, they, in the short term, had a chance to do the right thing and earn some credibility.
    even if we're on a downturn now, the long term trend is rising.




    ^ yes this chart isn't perfectly suited to the discussion, but see the big downturn in the late 70's? Still, it worked it's way back up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    yes, it's a career, but wouldn't every single person on the planet
    pick a career in an area they really like over one that isn't as enjoyable?
    Every person would. I don't know his personal goals myself, but neither do you. Like I said....maybe he wants a position in a NFL front office? Maybe he wants to run a national organization like Hockey Canada? Maybe he wants to head up marketing in the NBA. All may satisfy that which you identify as "enjoyable" and yet all involve him leaving.

    If there is anything I have learned about MSLE it's that most people that work there, save for those in ownership positions, wind up leaving for greener pastures. Look at Marc Petitpas. In fact, it is well-known on the street that MLSE is a training ground for new professionals to earn their way into more lucrative positions elsewhere. And most of us here have noticed that in the way sometimes the organization is a little green around the edges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty_torontofc_2008 View Post
    for all the fans that are complaing about a possible Seasons ticket raise,
    are you the ones that want a DP? Grass? If you thought we could get those without a raise in the season tickets, your out of it.. add to the Fact we will have a game with Philadelphia Union next season the prices
    would have gone up anyways. Becarefuk what you ask for,dp/grass you may have to pay for it!1
    1- we don't have grass, and when they give us the renewal with the markup, we still won't have a written approval for grass. it's pretty lousy if they charge for it at this point.

    2- we gain a game vs Philadelphia, but they aren't increasing # of league games, so we'll lose a game vs a team that we play 3 times in the season (like NY or Columbus).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkdale View Post
    even if we're on a downturn now, the long term trend is rising.




    ^ yes this chart isn't perfectly suited to the discussion, but see the big downturn in the late 70's? Still, it worked it's way back up.

    surely youre not making the sweeping assumption that broad equity markets mirror CPI indices????

    dont work that way my friend.

    they track together on a long enough timeframe and do correlate, but arent one in the same.

 

 

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