we need a new formation with lots of movement

[hodgkiss]

here's what i think if degu and is in and serioux and sanyang are out.
this leaves some options both offensively and defensively.

if gerba gets tired, take him out for gala. gala takes dero's spot and
dero moves up to the left side of white.

if vitti looks tired, take him out, put felligna in and cronin takes the right wing brennan takes d mid and felligna takes left back.

or take cronin out, guevara in and switch to a standard 4-4-2
with vitti--guevara--degu--dero across the midfield.


------------------frei-------------------

wynne----nana----gomez----brennan

-----------------cronin-----------------

vitti-------------degu-------------dero

------------gerba-----white------------

please don't let barrett or garcia see the field!

[Blazer]

Ummm, if guys are "getting tired" on a regular basis at this level of play, it won't matter what formation we play - failure is an inevitability.

This team needs talent, not a new formation.

[joel]

truth of the matter formation is irrelevant, we need PLAYERS with lots of movement, and we aren't getting that. You can organize however you want, but it means nothing if players do not move to open space as a team

[Shaughno]

truth of the matter formation is irrelevant, we need PLAYERS with lots of movement, and we aren't getting that. You can organize however you want, but it means nothing if players do not move to open space as a team

Or retain possession instead of hoofing it up field so our not-so strikers waste their energy playing the ol' Canadian Dump 'n Chase.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

If anyone saw Italy-Bulgaria the other day, what I'd love to see at TFC is a player who can do what Andrea Pirlo did for Italy. I'm not saying that we actually need Pirlo himself, but a player of MLS standard with (proportionally) his skill set. He broke up opposition attacks and started his team moving the other way, picking out teammates with pinpoint passes and essentially leading every attacking move the team made. That could be JDG when/if he signs.

4-4-2 CAN work if the coaches put some more thought into tactics than they have thus far and can sometimes be more attacking than a 4-3-3.

In the end, though, I agree that the most important thing is that our players don't move into space for each other and I've been noticing that all season, and that's why so many of our attacks falter and die halfway up the pitch. Movement has nothing to do with formation, it's down to the players themselves and the coaching staff.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

here's what i think if degu and is in and serioux and sanyang are out.
this leaves some options both offensively and defensively.

if gerba gets tired, take him out for gala. gala takes dero's spot and
dero moves up to the left side of white.

if vitti looks tired, take him out, put felligna in and cronin takes the right wing brennan takes d mid and felligna takes left back.

or take cronin out, guevara in and switch to a standard 4-4-2
with vitti--guevara--degu--dero across the midfield.


------------------frei-------------------

wynne----nana----gomez----brennan

-----------------cronin-----------------

vitti-------------degu-------------dero

------------gerba-----white------------

please don't let barrett or garcia see the field!

That's still too oversimplified IMO, and De Guzman isn't an attacking midfielder. He plays in the middle towards the back of the midfield.

[Cobblers]

If we play 4 defenders there really isn't a need to play a "defensive" midfielder in my opinion. We need a flat 4 in the midfield with all tracking back and all going forward...the idea of a defensive midfielder has never sat well with me - it's almost like taking a midfielder out of the middle of the pitch. Both central midfielders in a 4 man midfield should be able to tackle, track back and attack. We currently don't play like this and is why we never have anything in the middle going forward...

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

^Yep. Our tactics are stuck back in the 1930s. These days movement is considered to be everything, at least at the highest levels, and most teams incorporate some aspect of 'total football.' Every player should be able to track back, pass, tackle and attack.

[prizby]

seems like the boys get tired after 45-60 minutes, especially 75 minutes (most goals conceded in the last 15)...how would lots of movement help us, if they can't play a full 90 anyways

[maninb]

seems like the boys get tired after 45-60 minutes, especially 75 minutes (most goals conceded in the last 15)...how would lots of movement help us, if they can't play a full 90 anyways

well said....but I think thos has more to do with Cummins insane substitution policy...he waits til the last 10-20 mins to use his subs...

[Globetrotter]

If they stop playing guys out of position and work with what they have, they see that they're built for a 4-2-2-2. Robinson/Cronin at DefM, Dero/Guevara at OffM, and 2 strikers.

The problem with that is it belongs to highly skilled players at their position, like when Brazil used it a few years back.

It's funny seeing people draw up their little diagrams. Just look at how many guys are out of position.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Yep. Brazil play these crazy complicated formations because they have such skilled players.

And the Italian 4-1-2-1-2 is something I've often wanted to see but TFC don't have the personnel.

[RedMAN127]

seems like the boys get tired after 45-60 minutes, especially 75 minutes (most goals conceded in the last 15)...how would lots of movement help us, if they can't play a full 90 anyways

If we managed to score one or two in the first half, we could adjust the pace and work defence, hopefully allowing the guys to be capable of controling the last quarter or so instead of gasing (plus maybe using subs, rather than leaving them on the bench might work).

[hodgkiss]

when jdg plays with canada, he can push up a little further in the middle because hutch is often back there with him. having cronin a little further back can get jdg forward which is where we want him with this team. he can distribute the ball very well and he can also make space for himself to take a shot (that will hit the target)

great comment about making space - i agree whole heartedly. but defensively, they also need to close down spaces and mark much tighter especially when the opposition is in our final 1/3. poor marking is unacceptable. same goes with poor clearances. if the back line can't get it away in the air, they need to get that ball out to the side and stop looping these free balls into the middle. DISGUSTING at this level.

thus, garcia needs to sit. and if serioux was healthy, so would gomez. but hopefully gomez has learned his lesson.

[Candu_88]

Yep. Brazil play these crazy complicated formations because they have such skilled players.

And the Italian 4-1-2-1-2 is something I've often wanted to see but TFC don't have the personnel.

TFC isn't effective playing traditional 4-4-2 because of the squad's balance. No true wingers and no fast skilled advanced srtiker that is always making intelligent diagonal runs. DeRo struggles in this role leading the league in offsides. The midfielders all need to be box to box to make this work and we lack team stamina for this.

I_Am's assessment of the midfield diamond formation is correct. We now have awesome holders and playmakers for this but we lack the carilleros. That is the Argentinian term for the midfield shuttlers. Those players need extreme soccer brains, stamina, speed and skills. If they narrow to win the central midfield war the team is very susceptible to wide attacks and lacks passing options in possession due to the compactness. If they stay wide the critical central midfield battle is hopeless. As the carilleros tire the formation usually regresses to 4-3-1-2 where all the attacks come from the playmaker. Easy to stifle by just denying the playmaker the ball or man mark him.

Probably the 4-2-3-1 we claimed was 4-3-3 we used earlier in the season works best for us but losing Dichio really hurts this too. Truth is the formation really isn't critical. We lack the movement, support, pressure, cover, balance and ball possession skills. This squad has amazing potential if the balance issues get addressed this off-season.

[prizby]

If we managed to score one or two in the first half, we could adjust the pace and work defence, hopefully allowing the guys to be capable of controling the last quarter or so instead of gasing (plus maybe using subs, rather than leaving them on the bench might work).

IF.... The problem is the if, or they play like they did in the last 3 games and not score, then they burn out and get burned by other teams

[DreFuss]

Two words: Flying V

I've seen this work, trust me.

[sweetlemon69]

truth of the matter formation is irrelevant, we need PLAYERS with lots of movement, and we aren't getting that. You can organize however you want, but it means nothing if players do not move to open space as a team

This is thee key thing right here. Johan Cryuff couldn't have said it better.

[Sullivan]

truth of the matter formation is irrelevant, we need PLAYERS with lots of movement, and we aren't getting that. You can organize however you want, but it means nothing if players do not move to open space as a team

We need players who UNDERSTAND what kind of movement is required when:
...TFC has the ball; and
...TFC does not have the ball.

and vice-versa! Transition or counter attacks can be lethal.

While in possession, both players and the ball need to go forward, not at breakneck speed either. A controlled, patient attack where players move in advance and re-position themselves with every touch of the ball whether it comes to them or not. It's called reading the game.

I might add that other teams have not had much bother with this approach on our plastic pitch....

But based on what I heard from CC on 590 last night was that in the "heat of the game", his players can't execute under pressure or on a plastic surface. So it's a work in progress = bullsh!t.

CC and our players just can't play a technical style!

[Nuvinho]

How about this formation (assuming a few players leave next year, or we can just sit them out the rest of the year ):

-----------------Frei-----------------------
Serioux----Nana---------Gomez-----Brennan

------------------Cronin-------------------
---------JDG-----------------Amado-------
------------------DeRo--------------------
------------Gerba---------White-----------

[Jamaicanadian]

Can someone explain why Cummins insists on playing with one forward in a must win situation......I've been around footie for a while and i really don't understand...Am i missing something?