MO haters, wake up to reality!

[T0R0NT0 FC]

Seriously, WTF is with all the MO haters?

I'm reminded of the Leaf's fans who at the start of every season think "this year we are going to win the Cup!" no matter how bad the team looks to the rest of the world... Oblivious to reality.

Our team is only on our third season of the "5 year plan", we have a solid foundation of promising youth & we got DeRo!!! *and possibly JDG*

Sure some playoff games this season would have been nice, but after the overall inconsistent performance of the players/coaching during the entire season and the voyagers cup/champions league matches... is anyone really that shocked at this point? C'mon, go look at yourself in the mirror... really???

MO goes out and signs DeRo (since TFC was a thought, the #1 dream signing for every TFC Fan) for peanuts when the entire hemisphere thought it would be years away after that new contract with Houston. Then like typical "Toronto sports fans" a few months later everyone forgets that, wants more, more, more and calls for his head because we are not the greatest team in all the land then, now and forever.

I think everyone forgets some key challenges facing the MLS in general when you constantly complain about MO's performance:

1. This is the MLS.
2. THIS IS THE MLS.
   
3. Salary cap, retarded acquisition rules, limited roster spots, "parity above all else" & the view that this league is 2nd rate by many players in other countries.
4. This isn't anything like operating in Europe here folks; MO's hands are tied in a sense with regards to bringing in talent.
5. Turf @ BMO and other fields. It's simple; players don't want to play on turf.

Quite honestly, there is way too much player idolizing. This seems to be a "Toronto Sports" constant whether you're a Leafs, Jays, Raps or TFC fan. Many players are perceived by fans to be better then they really are. Average players are made out to be great or amazing players by the fans. Then, when they play like average players, everyone is disappointed and it must be someone else's fault.

This can be expanded to our team in general; most objective observers would say based on the performances of TFC this season, we are an average/below-average MLS team that occasionally plays at an above average level. The problem is when you ask many of us TFC fans, we think/say that we are an above average MLS team but for reason 1, 2, 3, etc... we are not playing up to our potential.

Even as a TFC fan from day one, when I step back and look at the entire season so far, I would have to side with the former rather than the latter point of view. If you still disagree, look back at our perfomance against USL teams in the Voyagers Cup/Champions League. (Not including the final game in Montreal, which Montreal had absolutely zero to play for.) If we can't beat USL sides convincingly, how are we going to beat MLS sides regularly?


Now lets look at MO's record as a GM over the year:
DRAFTED M Sam Cronin (2nd overall 2009 SuperDraft) - (young, solid player, experience beyond years)

DRAFTED F O'Brian White (4th overall 2009 SuperDraft) - (needs more recovery time, one for next season)

DRAFTED GK Stefan Frei (13th overall 2009 SuperDraft) - (young, solid, future MLS best keeper)

RE-SIGNED M Dwayne De Rosario to a four-year deal - (dreams do come true!)

TRADED D Todd Dunivant to the LA Galaxy in exchange for allocation money. - (utility man, needed allo. money for other things)

SIGNED F Pablo Vitti on loan - (frustrating at times/shows promise at times, hit post/crossbar about 10 times this season)

TRADED D Tyrone Marshall to L.A. Galaxy in exchange for allocation money - (slow, needed allo. money for other things)

SIGNED D Adrian Serioux from FC Dallas - (Canadian, strong, experienced MLS CB, better than Marshall...)

ACQUIRED Natural 2010 second round pick from Colorado in exchange for rights to F Gregory Richardson - (who?)

SIGNED D Emmanuel Gomez - (young, quick, hard worker, starter already)

SIGNED D Amadou Sanyang - (young, quick, aggressive, lots of upside)

ACQUIRED D Nick Garcia In exchange for Toronto's 3rd round selection in the 2010 MLS SuperDraft - (experienced MLS CB to mentor the youth movement)

RELEASED GK Greg Sutton - (With Frei and Edwards, no room, made too much to sit on the bench)

RELEASED F Johann Smith - (quick, but that's about it)

SIGNED F Ali Gerba - (Canadian, strong, will be in shape next season)

SIGNED D Lesly Fellinga - (young, finally an acual LB, hear good things, but yet to play)

RELEASED D Marco Velez - (there is a god!!!)

RUMOURED M Julian De Guzman - (dream Canadian DP, better late then never?)

All in all, I would say MO has done an excellent job this season as a GM in the MLS. He is building a quality team. Excellent youth brought in, players with MLS experience to guide them, DeRo, possibly JDG. Honestly, what more can anyone ask for given the circumstances?


The problem is:
TFC now, is like England used to be; too many players making the starting 11 due to their name or past performances not based on their current form. Our best match of the season was vs. DC United. Coincidentally, we started the youngest squad of the season. It's time to put nostalgia aside and move towards hard-working, young players.

• Robbo - has been horrible most of the season. (he's old & expensive)
  
• Brennan - (I have his name on my TFC jersey, but still) has been horrible most of the season. (he's old & slowing down by the day)
  
• Guevara - has been horrible most of the season. (he's old & expensive)
• Dichio - love Dichio! But we all know it's his last season...

However, on the bright side, our projected starting 11 for next season has a lot of youth and promise:

-----------------Frei-------------------
Wynne--Nana--Gomez--Fellinga
--------------Sanyang---------------
Cronin--------JDG-----------DeRo
----------Gerba----White-----------

Bench:
G - Edwards
D - Serioux
D - Garcia
M - Gala
M - Barrett (he is not a striker!)
M - Vitti
F - Ibraham

This leaves 3-6 open roster slots to be filled by new players.


In conclusion:
MO has been building a squad slowly over the last 3 years that will/should be a good squad for years to come. With all the constraints of operating in the MLS these things take time. He said he had a 5 year plan, so give him 5 years. Every season TFC has slowly been getting better with a deeper bench. Sure, it would be nice to win now, but I for one would much rather have a team that will eventually be competing every season.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game"

[ArmenJBX]

Couldn't have said it better myself if I had a thousand educated analysts and Shakespeare jotting notes down.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'm really tired of analogies involving Leafs fans.

- Scott

[TFC USA]

Wahey this should be fun.


Think I'll sit this one out and let the 5 year plan bullshit lovers have the floor today.

[T0R0NT0 FC]

I'm really tired of analogies involving Leafs fans.

- Scott

Me too... but it's too easy.

[MartinUtd]

5 year plans are for failed regimes.

I know MLS is centrally planned, but the excuses are running thin. Chicago won the league in their first year and Seattle won the open cup this year. Simply making the playoffs after three years isn't asking too much.

[Roogsy]

You know what? I don't have a problem if people love Mo or hate Mo. If you think he is doing a great job or a crappy one. But what a stupid idea it is to call out the Mo haters, knowing there are so many of them...and challenging them to put up reasons why they hate Mo. You know they're going to do it and this thread is going to degenerate into Mo-hating debacle.

Prepare to get flamed...and it's your own fault.

Want to start a real Mo-loving thread? Put up a real one. One that mods can defend as a "Mo appreciation thread". This ain't it. Don't call people out. That's just plain dumb.

[Pookie]

^ I think that player moves are one thing but this team seems to be lacking leadership.

How does a team manage to have: 2 shots on goal, 31 fouls and 2 red cards in 2 of their most critical matches?

Are the players not self policing? Where are the leaders on the field? What are the designated off field leaders (coaches, managers, etc) doing?

The coach left midway through the season... which says alot right there... and the new guy is essentially a lame duck. If Mo had the intention of keeping Cummins he should have removed the "interim" label and given him a vote of confidence.

If Mo had no intention of keeping Cummins, he should have dismissed him and at the very least, taken over the reigns himself.

Right now, as evidenced by their undisciplined and uninterested style of play, they have no respect for current leadership. I'm not trying to rekindle the whole grass debate but it is very clear that the players feel 2nd class as a result of the RM situation. Not exactly the "go to war for and with you" attitude you want in a team.

I'm fine with player moves that Mo has made on the basis of skill. But from a team building standpoint, I'm not sure if this is the right mix. I am absolutely sure though that leadership from management is lacking is almost all areas and that is reflected in the results we see.

[TFC07]

I stop reading after "5 year plan" part. I can't believe people are buying into this BS. We can't even make it to the playoffs in our third year. Not only that, it seems like this team needs rebuild their core and get a new coaching staff. Is this part of 5 year plan to win MLS cup?

This year goal was to make it to the playoffs (just look back what players, coaches and management were saying during pre-season). Right now, it looks like we are not going to make it to the playoffs.

[Shakes McQueen]

If Mo had no intention of keeping Cummins, he should have dismissed him and at the very least, taken over the reigns himself.

Mo is savvy enough to understand that by keeping Cummins until the end of the season, he can shift all of the blame on to him. If Mo takes the reigns down the stretch, then suddenly the team's performance is all on him.

It's not right, but it's how it usually works. Cummins will be the sacrificial lamb for this season, and while he certainly deserves a huge chunk of the blame (our subs, tactics, and starting lineups have been poor all year), he doesn't deserve all of it.

- Scott

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

TORONTON FC - You're right, it's not all Mo, but he's hugely responsible for the teams woes. It's as simple as this: We have the smallest squad in the league by two players (stop blaming the team's problems on limited roster spots, cause we're not even coming close to using them all) because we have too many big earners (by MLS standards). We don't even have players at certain positions (both wings) because too much money is tied up in the likes of Vitti and Robinson - 100% Mo's fault.

[Redcoe15]

I've personally never called out Mo because he knows this league. He been with MLS from day one, first as a player, then a coach, and now a general manager. He knows how this league operates with its crazy little rules. I like to believe Mo's understanding of MLS will give us an advantage down the road.

[Beach_Red]

Mo is savvy enough to understand that by keeping Cummins until the end of the season, he can shift all of the blame on to him. If Mo takes the reigns down the stretch, then suddenly the team's performance is all on him.

It's not right, but it's how it usually works. Cummins will be the sacrificial lamb for this season, and while he certainly deserves a huge chunk of the blame (our subs, tactics, and starting lineups have been poor all year), he doesn't deserve all of it.

- Scott

Likely Mo is more worried about who will be the next coach. Negotiations have probably been underway for some time and the first choice isn't available at the moment.

Also, the choice of coach and contract likely had to do with Mo's own contract - he couldn't very well offer a coach a long-term contract (and any coach worth hiring will demand one) if his own was running out.

And, that line-up for next does look like it could be pretty good. That might even make it easier to get a good coach.

[Dirk Diggler]

I honestly believed that this was a sarcastic piss take (and a good one at that) till the half way mark of the original post.

[Lucky Strike]

I don't really know how to feel about Mo. He's done very good things as you pointed out, under restrictive circumstances, but there are other teams like Chicago and Seattle who have done more in less time.

Having said that, we shouldn't dally around either blaming or absolving Mo. What we need most importantly is a good, competent head coach, and keep him for a number of years. We've had 3 head coaches in less than 3 years, that concerns me greatly.

I suppose you could say the decision to hire a head coach lies with Mo, but I still believe he shouldn't be the focus. There are more important things at the present time, im my humble view.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't really know how to feel about Mo. He's done very good things as you pointed out, under restrictive circumstances, but there are other teams like Chicago and Seattle who have done more in less time.

Having said that, we shouldn't dally around either blaming or absolving Mo. What we need most importantly is a good, competent head coach, and keep him for a number of years. We've had 3 head coaches in less than 3 years, that concerns me greatly.

I suppose you could say the decision to hire a head coach lies with Mo, but I still believe he shouldn't be the focus. There are more important things at the present time, im my humble view.

Who Mo appoints as the next head coach, will go a long way towards determining whether I think Mo should keep his job. He was left in a tough spot this season, with the sudden departure of Carver, but there will be no excuses after having a few months to look.

This team needs a talented tactician, and a proven veteran coach, to truly assess potential of this roster. I still think our team is probably somewhat better than it has played this season.

- Scott

[ilikemusic]

I'm really tired of analogies involving Leafs fans.

- Scott

Didnt you know that anyone who knows anything about football knows that everything can be explained in relation to the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[jloome]

I don't really know how to feel about Mo. He's done very good things as you pointed out, under restrictive circumstances, but there are other teams like Chicago and Seattle who have done more in less time.

Having said that, we shouldn't dally around either blaming or absolving Mo. What we need most importantly is a good, competent head coach, and keep him for a number of years. We've had 3 head coaches in less than 3 years, that concerns me greatly.

I suppose you could say the decision to hire a head coach lies with Mo, but I still believe he shouldn't be the focus. There are more important things at the present time, im my humble view.

I think Mo would be a fine head of scouting for a large football organization as he can read talent when he sees it. But technique and "early impression" isn't everything; you also need to buy smart, hard-working, on-field leaders. We're a one dimensional team: players with a lot of flash in a small number of areas.

Keep this in mind: until he'd been settled in Houston for 18 months, DeRo wasn't even a starter in MLS; even when he was MLS Cup MVP, he was coming off the bench as the "late impact" guy. That's because (even though he's our hardest worker) he's always had the knock of trying to do too much.

Serioux, going back to when he and DeRo were younger players together, had the knock of making dumb, emotional decisions. Has a great throw, can pass the ball, tackles well, holds guys up well....drifts out of the game for a few minutes and costs you a goal.

Garcia and Barrett were both absolute washes at their former clubs, often doing more harm than good. On what evidence did Mo think a move here would turn that around?

The jury is done on Mo. He's a lightweight as a GM, a scheming survivor, and a passionately smart footballer with an eye for talent. If he stopped wasting time reacting to snipes on Gol TV or arguing with managers about where they can fucking sit durign a game and instead judged our player acquisitions based on the full necessity of well-rounded play, we'd be a whole lot better off.

Don't expect it to happen. He's got MLSE thoroughly hoodwinked, likely ever since Mo Edu.

[Keyman]

Mo has an eye for talent, but no ability to build a talented team.

[Beach_Red]

Who Mo appoints as the next head coach, will go a long way towards determining whether I think Mo should keep his job. He was left in a tough spot this season, with the sudden departure of Carver, but there will be no excuses after having a few months to look.

This team needs a talented tactician, and a proven veteran coach, to truly assess potential of this roster. I still think our team is probably somewhat better than it has played this season.

- Scott

Usually I'd say it's just semantics and let it go but TFC doesn't get to appoint anyone coach - right now what they get to do is beg someone to take the job.

I'm hoping that they're treating the coaching position now like they are the DP and holdiong out for the right fit and a longer-term contract. They'll have to overpay, just like it loks like they have for JDG.

If Mo is as good a survivor as JLoome thinks he is, then the thing that will serve him best will be to get a proper coach signed up for the longest term possible. If he has convinced MLSE to spend so many millions on JDG, he might be able to convince them to overpay a coach, too.

I really do think the reason Cummins is still interim is because negotiations are ongoing with someone for the job - probably someone currently under contract.

[Shakes McQueen]

Usually I'd say it's just semantics and let it go but TFC doesn't get to appoint anyone coach - right now what they get to do is beg someone to take the job.

Actually, I think even as semantics go, I'd be right. Because even if they beg someone to take the job, I'm pretty sure it's still technically an appointment, haha.

I'm hoping that they're treating the coaching position now like they are the DP and holdiong out for the right fit and a longer-term contract. They'll have to overpay, just like it loks like they have for JDG.

I agree. This will be a huge gut check for how committed to success this organization really is.

- Scott

[wzhxvy]

To the OP, you lose credibility when you credit MO with the Dero trade. Dero asked to come here and Houston and the league made it happen...that comment insults our intelligence. As to the rest, I agree with Jloome's post...thats pretty much exactly how I feel. I am waiting to see how the DD situation pans out to decide how pissed I will be at MO...because its not whether I will be these days, just how much.

[RedRum]

Yeah his deals/draft picks dont look half-bad on paper, but there is zero cohesion on this team. Mo hired the quitter and Cummins, both of whom are out-coached on a game by game basis.

At the end of the day, it's EPIC FAIL and it's all on Mo. MLSE doesn't a shit though, because the team is quite profitable and that's all that matters. Honestly, I'm wrestling with the idea of only supporting on the road until this regime is gone so MLSE doesn't get to see any of my money until there is change.

[CretanBull]

I'm not a Mo hater, but here's the counter arguement to the one you made:



All of the good moves etc. that he's made still haven't amounted to anything and at the end of the day he alone is responsible for that.

[reggie]

are you guys talking about no show MO????
i have not heard or seen this guy all season,the guy hides in his box and never talks to the media..

[Blazer]

Man, I couldn’t read all of that. So many unbalanced rationales.

“I'm reminded of the Leaf's fans who at the start of every season think "this year we are going to win the Cup!" no matter how bad the team looks to the rest of the world...”

I haven’t met a Leafs fan in over 8 years who has said “this is our year”. I’ve heard quite the opposite in fact.

“Sure some playoff games this season would have been nice”

Does he know something about our future that I don’t?! Could have sworn things weren’t over.

"MO goes out and signs DeRo"

DeRo wanted to be here, let's not downplay that very important (even crucial) fact. I had to stop there … just too much painful rhetoric. Oh, and that projected starting 11 for next season is not good enough, sorry.

[SanStarko]

MO has been building a squad slowly over the last 3 years that will/should be a good squad for years to come.

I've thought that for a while now. As much as Mo has made some mistakes he has being bringing together a fairly decent set of young players which will form the backbone of our side for a good few years to come.

Unfortunately, his major downfall seems to be bringing in a decent head coach. He has to bring in the right guy at the end of this season. Carver was a failure and Cummins is going the same way, so hopefully Mo has learnt that he has to bring in someone with experience of being the main man and not another ex-assistant.

One thing which I have loved during Mo's time here is the fact that the slightest thing he does wrong, or anything that the finger can be vaguely pointed in his direction for, is jumped on by everybody. But when he does things right it's just dismissed as being handed to him on a plate, or a obvious signing that anybody could have made.

[Mikey]

5 year plan.....LOL!
what a load of shit.

[Blazer]

^ +1

[jazzy]

[quote=T0R0NT0 FC;703900]Seriously, WTF is with all the MO haters?

I

• Robbo - has been horrible most of the season. (he's old & expensive)
  
• Brennan - (I have his name on my TFC jersey, but still) has been horrible most of the season. (he's old & slowing down by the day)
  
• Guevara - has been horrible most of the season. (he's old & expensive)
• Dichio - love Dichio! But we all know it's his last season...

However, on the bright side, our projected starting 11 for next season has a lot of youth and promise:

-----------------Frei-------------------
Wynne--Nana--Gomez--Fellinga
--------------Sanyang---------------
Cronin--------JDG-----------DeRo
----------Gerba----White-----------

Bench:
G - Edwards
D - Serioux
D - Garcia
M - Gala
M - Barrett (he is not a striker!)
M - Vitti
F - Ibraham

This leaves 3-6 open roster slots to be filled by new players.


In conclusion:
MO has been building a squad slowly over the last 3 years that will/should be a good squad for years to come. With all the constraints of operating in the MLS these things take time. He said he had a 5 year plan, so give him 5 years. Every season TFC has slowly been getting better with a deeper bench. Sure, it would be nice to win now, but I for one would much rather have a team that will eventually be competing every season.


Ya alls fair, but when you don't have coach's that subscribe to this theory, more negative progress......I really think our asst coach's( can't spell his name) talent has been lost in the shuffle and when he lost out on the head position, I felt too bad, now he'll be passed over. His past history is one of understanding the European aspect of the game, rather than long ball English styles of the past, which infuriate me, How many Beckham's are there? And I believe he has that inspirational love of the game, combined with the possesion/control concept of the game that can inspire, certain individuals.