The following players are too dumb, distracted or untalented...

[jloome]

.... to be our long-term starter in MLS

From the Back: Serioux, Garcia, Brennan, Robinson, Vitti, Barrett,

Thanks for the service. But you're holding us back, and driving the team's dedicated fans to drink. We will cheer your every move in Yeovil, NY, or wherever fans don't deserve a team of any quality.

Essentially, I think we need two starting centre backs (or to move Attakora there permanently and take our chances with Wynne), a starting DM, two wingers (or at least one, and move Cronin back to his right foot, where he was effective), a creative midfielder and a striker.

Any arguments?

[ArmenJBX]

Keep Garcia.

We said the same stupid shit about Conor Casey and Edson Buddle...and now they're MLS top scorers for the past two years.

DON'T GET RID OF PLAYERS until we have the replacement in hand.

[jloome]

Keep Garcia.

We said the same stupid shit about Conor Casey and Edson Buddle...and now they're MLS top scorers for the past two years.

DON'T GET RID OF PLAYERS until we have the replacement in hand.

Actually, no, we didn't. Both Casey and Buddle requested to be moved.

[Shakes McQueen]

Serioux I would disagree with - I think he's good enough to be a starting CB on a winning MLS team. Just needs to play more consistently with competent defenders. Everyone else I'd agree with.

It's depressing too, when you look at those names, and realize how much salary we have tied up in them... and what we could get for it.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

Can't do anything about this until the salary cap improves. I am sure we could find better players in these positions, but since nobody wants to come to Toronto, we have to pay a premium to convince them, which leaves even less room under the cap for role and bench players, depth that is necessary.

[jloome]

Can't do anything about this until the salary cap improves. I am sure we could find better players in these positions, but since nobody wants to come to Toronto, we have to pay a premium to convince them, which leaves even less room under the cap for role and bench players, depth that is necessary.

Gahd roogsy, I hate to fucking admit it, but that's the truest of statements ... "nobody wants to come to Toronto."

-- We've got a front office that is regarded across the league as lightweight on the football side (albeit great guns on the biz side)
-- We've got turf that every player in the league loathes and none want to play on, a rather big deal.
-- We've got a life-long youth coach (his specialty was developing young teen players) thrown in to take over a team when he's never even been a head coach before.
-- We've got the Canadian dollar and cost of living.

Eek. I'm having a bad day, TFC-wise. I suppose most of us are.

[Pookie]

I too would not boot Serioux. I have no idea what type of influence he is within the locker room but he plays hurt, plays with passion and does a decent job of defending.

You have to factor in the fact that he is a "Domestic" player and if you boot him, you need a replacement to fill the roster. Not sure who else would be out there and available as a replacement.

[boysblue]

Agree with those who would hang on to Serioux. Something is wrong with him now (maybe still has not gotten over the injury he picked up a few weeks back) but early in the season he was very effective, maybe even the team's best player.

I remember watching him play at BMO with Dallas last year and thought he was outstanding, one of the top defenders I saw all season in the MLS. Was thrilled when Mo picked him up and still have high hopes for him.

[Kaz]

Serioux can stay, but add Wynne to the list IMO he needs to go.

Vitti I'd keep if he played midfield at about 1/3 or less of the salary.

I like Brennen and Robbo but it's time for them to retire.

[prizby]

i disagree 100% with Vitti. If Vitti had been Conor Casey in 2007, you would have had Conor Casey on this list. I absolutely believe that Vitti will start to break out near the tail end of next season and his ability will fully realized by 2011...especially if we get grass.

edit: to reiterate, i know Casey requested to move...but what I meant is that Casey's production in 2007 is equal to Vitti's in 2009 (first season in the MLS)

[SoccMan]

Sorry but Serioux has to go, his problem is that he is always prone to make that one mistake that will cost you the game. I never thought he was a good signing from the start, he was made to be this great player by many people, which he never was. The last game's bone head tackle was a great example of a player who at any moment can cost you the game. Serioux is just one of many players on this team that have to go, the sooner the better.

[poppamidnight]

Serioux I would disagree with - I think he's good enough to be a starting CB on a winning MLS team. Just needs to play more consistently with competent defenders. Everyone else I'd agree with.

It's depressing too, when you look at those names, and realize how much salary we have tied up in them... and what we could get for it.

- Scott

I don't think it's his skill...
it's his temperment....

which he's had for ages...

hence, his stupidity....

He's our new Kevin Harmse....
(Remember...whenever he got subbed in, and we'd all cringe every time he was about to tackle someone.....)

STRAIGHT RED!!!
El Toro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SilverSamurai]

Gahd roogsy, I hate to fucking admit it, but that's the truest of statements ... "nobody wants to come to Toronto."

-- We've got a front office that is regarded across the league as lightweight on the football side (albeit great guns on the biz side)
-- We've got turf that every player in the league loathes and none want to play on, a rather big deal.
-- We've got a life-long youth coach (his specialty was developing young teen players) thrown in to take over a team when he's never even been a head coach before.
-- We've got the Canadian dollar and cost of living.

Eek. I'm having a bad day, TFC-wise. I suppose most of us are.

I'll give you the other 2 but the turf?
Other teams have turf, so I don't see the big deal. Yes I know grass is better and I hope we get it...

As for the Canuck buck. Shouldn't be a factor at all since the players get paid in US $$$.
The cost of living isn't THAT high. This isn't NY or LA. Oh wait they play in totally different cities.
I still don't see how anyone says TO is expensive. People must not travel much... I dunno...

[SilverSamurai]

I know the reason why Vitti isn't doing well.
Velez isn't around to translate for him. He has no clue what's going on or what to do and what the game plan is!

[ArmenJBX]

Gahd roogsy, I hate to fucking admit it, but that's the truest of statements ... "nobody wants to come to Toronto."

-- We've got a front office that is regarded across the league as lightweight on the football side (albeit great guns on the biz side)
-- We've got turf that every player in the league loathes and none want to play on, a rather big deal.
-- We've got a life-long youth coach (his specialty was developing young teen players) thrown in to take over a team when he's never even been a head coach before.
-- We've got the Canadian dollar and cost of living.

Eek. I'm having a bad day, TFC-wise. I suppose most of us are.

The turf coupled with the fact that it's Canada and not US is huge. Europeans assume Canada is worlds away from US when in reality we're about the same, at least, in Toronto. We have our differences true, but still, it's Western Culture.

We should be looking for a good, European coach OR an old MLS coach.

[Sullivan]

.... to be our long-term starter in MLS

From the Back: Serioux, Garcia, Brennan, Robinson, Vitti, Barrett,

Thanks for the service. But you're holding us back, and driving the team's dedicated fans to drink. We will cheer your every move in Yeovil, NY, or wherever fans don't deserve a team of any quality.

Essentially, I think we need two starting centre backs (or to move Attakora there permanently and take our chances with Wynne), a starting DM, two wingers (or at least one, and move Cronin back to his right foot, where he was effective), a creative midfielder and a striker.

Any arguments?

I'm not a Guevera fan so I'd have him in there as well.

But for me, Cummins & Johnston have to go first.

An experienced coach knows how to evaluate and deploy players to maximise and complement the overall level of talent that exists within a roster. Cummins has not displayed either ability.

An experienced manager knows what his squad is lacking, i.e. the round peg to fit in the round hole or i.e. the player that can play wide effectively and secure said wide playing player and therefore enhance the whole effectiveness of the tactical and technical acumen of the full squad.

Mo has not yet demonstrated these qualities.

And I have to toss this one out there, but are these guys even on the same page when it comes to tactics, technical pieces, re-grouping and roster assessment?

Individiually, Chris & Mo certainly talk the talk.....

I have no doubt in my mind that Mo will throw Cummins under the bus very soon, he's a cornerbhoy, so it's part of his nature. And If Cummins doesn't see it coming, well sort of makes us all look good with regard to our ability to assess CC!

With regard to your initial list, I do believe Serioux is salvageable if paired with a more season CB. And Vitti would be a project (ML$E needs to invest in Rosetta Stone, Footy version).

But the bigger problem (as already stated) is replacing / upgrading players - the challenges, as stated are the salary cap, domestic / international status, who is assessing the players, who will be deploying the players, what tactics are we relying upon, should a player be released before being replaced?

For me, what I want to hear sooner rather than later, in the nutshell, is Anselmi saying, "thanks Mo, but we're going to go in a different direction, therefore I'd like to introduce X as our new Director of Football.

[craigtfc]

I would add cronin to the list and keep serioux

[romburgundy]

Truth hurts since I'm a big fan of captain Jimmy B. but he's more effective as sub winger not a starting left back. As for Serioux making that one mistake, a CB is a thankless position and very demanding, just like the keeper it doesn't matter how many stops you make if you make one mistake you're crucified for it.

You will never get a flawless CB even in Europe but the more you pay the better you get just like everything else. I do agree though that he needs tone down the unnecessary roughness. After all MLS forwards are made out of gingerbread and can break easily, and MLS refs are well you know...

[Roogsy]

I'll give you the other 2 but the turf?
Other teams have turf, so I don't see the big deal. Yes I know grass is better and I hope we get it...

As for the Canuck buck. Shouldn't be a factor at all since the players get paid in US $$$.
The cost of living isn't THAT high. This isn't NY or LA. Oh wait they play in totally different cities.
I still don't see how anyone says TO is expensive. People must not travel much... I dunno...

Sorry SS...you are way off. The C$ is a major issue. The players have lost 20% of the value of their U$ contract vs the C$ since the beginning of the year. You lose 20% of the value of your salary and you tell me that is not an issue for you?

[pepher]

Serioux - not "the" man in the back we need.
Garcia - I like him... give him some more time please.
Brennan - Like the guy, not sure how long he'll last.
Robinson - I'd keep this one for sure...
Vitti - bye bye
Barrett - till the end of this season. I like the kid but am running out of patience. All that effort (and there's a lot) but no goals.

[Pachuco]

Funny, I thought Giambac started this thread. what a waste of time.

[billyfly]

This thread title could be about the teams at the Niagara tourney (there I said it).

Viva Martin Grove FC!

[Whoop]

I would add cronin to the list and keep serioux

Cronin... are you serious?

He`s been one of our better players this year.

[Oblio2]

Keep Robbo.....Crazy if you want him gone

[Toronto_Bhoy]

I absolutely believe that Vitti will start to break out near the tail end of next season

BREAK OUT!!! We needed Vitti to step up in big games like Saturday night and in the CL game in PR!!!

He's been totally anonymous all season...he makes $300,000 a year...eating a huge amount of cap space!

Keep drinking the Kool Aid...

[jloome]

Funny, I thought Giambac started this thread. what a waste of time.

Your contribution is timeless, your wit, impeccable. We all bow down.

[skraks]

Vitti has tried everybody`s patience. He looked completely lost on the weekend. I think he had the only shot on net. Wow. Robo is good enough, powerful enough and is an asset. Guevara stays. Cronin stays....etc etc.

Coaching needs to change....fast. I can`t stand it when coaches simply become talking heads. Carver went that way before he became a baby and bailed on the city, and the team. Cummins is out of his element. His "numbers" excuse is getting sooooo played. How many games left? 6? Doesn`t look good gentlemen.

[ensco]

Only disagree with Serioux. He's been badly banged up all year, and don't forget, he bordered on sensational in about 5 of the first 7 games. Agree he's been weak recently, as has every veteran.

The collapse of the veterans has been astounding.

Could the Garcia trade look any worse? Gomez is a better player anyway, which we learned within two weeks of the deal.

[Manutd27]

Vitti will be gone at the end of the season or sooner, as he is one loan and they need to free up cap space for DeGuzman, which I think is a good signing but he can not and will not be able to shoulder this team. Our team is in a terrible situation, and to be honest I felt angry and dissapointed on Saturday night as many of you probably did, but the loss didn't bother me as much as the fact that for 90 minutes the entire team ( all 11 players ) seemed to be playing like we had already lost, we didn't even come close to scoring, we barely even created a chance of scoring. I wish the players in the shirt had as much pride for it as we ( the supporters ) do.

[felipe]

I think the thread title is harsh and unfair.

Why are these boards so full of animosity?

You basically want to throw out the nucleus of the team - it would be like starting over...

But if you have to get rid of someone...Get rid of Guevera and I think you'd find a harmonious team - that would play much better; (either that or get little 'H's on our jerseys so he'd play harder)

Get happy people - we're in the thick of the playoff race and everyone here is gloomy and already defeated -

Is this not better than the last two years? Meaningful games in September! Gasp!