Ottawa's Soccer Dream Not Dead?

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

I'm tempted to say that it is because Toronto fans have had so much practice supporting losing teams, but in reality I have nothing but respect for the way they support their teams.

All teams will experience a drop-off of support when they go through long losing spells because their fan bases are made up of hard-core fans who will always go to support their team, and casual fans who will jump on and off the bandwagon at will.

With Toronto's large population base, they seem to have enough of the hard core fans to ride out the lean years in both hockey and soccer. Could Ottawa do that with MLS? There is really only one way to tell and that is to put a team here and see. My feeling is that they could, based on the explosive growth in soccer here, and the large number of ex-pat Europeans based here.

[Mark in Ottawa]

With Toronto's large population base, they seem to have enough of the hard core fans to ride out the lean years in both hockey and soccer. Could Ottawa do that with MLS? There is really only one way to tell and that is to put a team here and see. My feeling is that they could, based on the explosive growth in soccer here, and the large number of ex-pat Europeans based here.

A little marketing with the ethnic communities in Ottawa (yes they are smaller that Toronto... but they do exist here) along with some promotions with the various minor soccer associations (ala the Ottawa 67's) would go far.

Were the nations capital for god sake... embassies and consulates all over the place from parts of the world where soccer really matters located all over the city. You would think a smart marketer would use some of that and have different "nation days" with cultural exhibits and maybe even special food offerings to generate interest.

[drewski]

A little marketing with the ethnic communities in Ottawa (yes they are smaller that Toronto... but they do exist here) along with some promotions with the various minor soccer associations (ala the Ottawa 67's) would go far.

Were the nations capital for god sake... embassies and consulates all over the place from parts of the world where soccer really matters located all over the city. You would think a smart marketer would use some of that and have different "nation days" with cultural exhibits and maybe even special food offerings to generate interest.

only problem is that being a tier 2 side at best, the soccer is gonna be that much worse compared to where they come from. then there is also lack fo ties to the city which is important. For instance, I (and I imagine a fair bit of others) watch MLS/TFC only because of our ties to Toronto. without that, i wouldn't be watching MLS.

you can see that in hockey here too. Support for the Sens is relatively small compared to that of the Habs & Leafs by people living in Ottawa because their ties are to those other cities.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

The quality of the soccer isn't that much of a problem, if you enjoy going to the games. If you are just going to watch on tv, then why watch MLS or USL/NASL at all, why not watch the EPL or other European Leagues. The reason people watch MLS is the same reason that people in England go to watch lower division teams there. You go to support your local team, or whatever team you are emotionally attached to. I only started watching MLS when there were rumours of an Ottawa team

I watch the Ottawa Fury at the moment, because it is the best live soccer in Ottawa. If Ottawa gets a second tier team I will watch them. If Ottawa gets an MLS team I will watch them. But I will probably still watch the EPL, becuase of my long time emotional attachment to Manchester United, as well as the quality of the game.

[Oldtimer]

Ottawa's soccer dream was looking like it might be dead:

Lansdowne developers get stadium 'monopoly'

CBC News
Anyone who wants to build a professional soccer stadium in Ottawa in coming decades will likely be unable to get city support, thanks to a clause in the city's Lansdowne Park redevelopment deal.

Anyone who wants to build a professional soccer stadium in Ottawa in coming decades will likely be unable to get city support, thanks to a clause in the city's Lansdowne Park redevelopment deal.
The agreement with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group states that if the city does back a new sports facility with more than 5,000 seats in the next 30 years, OSEG has the right to:

• Walk away from certain agreements with the city concerning Lansdowne Park's Frank Clair Stadium.
• Be the first organization given the opportunity to lease the new facility for its Canadian Football League franchise or Ontario Hockey League team.

Coun. Christine Leadman is unhappy with the clause, revealed just four days before city council is supposed to vote on whether to approve the deal.
She questioned city manager Kent Kirkpatrick about the implications Thursday.
"So is the city granting a monopoly on football and stadiums to the CFL partnership for 30 years?" Leadman asked.
"The answer is yes," Kirkpatrick responded.

http://license.icopyright.net/user/v...d=ODg5OTU2NA==

However, the controversial clause was removed:

A clause that would make it difficult for any new stadium in Ottawa to get support from the city during the next 30 years has been eliminated from the Lansdowne Park redevelopment deal.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/06/24/lansdowne-stadium-football-monopoly.html

[Redcoe15]

Ottawa's MLS dreams are pretty dead anyways. Why would you build another stadium out in the western burbs when you've got a newly reconstructed stadium in the middle of the city?

[TFCRegina]

Ottawa's MLS dreams are pretty dead anyways. Why would you build another stadium out in the western burbs when you've got a newly reconstructed stadium in the middle of the city?

Agreed.

If anything they should be aiming for an NASL stadium, closer to the city heart.

[greatwhitenorf]

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/foo.../14551341.html

So it'll be a tier-two team playing on a plastic pitch with seating configured to suit CFL field dimensions.

All of which point to diminished playing quality and pisse-pauvre atmosphere. Doomed from the get-go. Why do I think that won't bother Hunt and his hacks one bit?

[ginkster88]

Do CFL teams make money? What is the point of another Ottawa franchise after two have failed previously? Whatever...

[Cashcleaner]

The CFL has been pretty profitable for quite some time now. The only problem is that a team in Ottawa is likely to be the exception. I don't know how anyone would still want to take the chance in the city where - as you just pointed out - two teams have already come and gone.

[ginkster88]

Now I get it:

"The OSEG proposal would require the city to spend $129.3 million to renovate the stadium and for its share of the parking. OSEG would commit $117.3 million for the construction of retail and residential condominiums on the site. OSEG would own the new commercial development and operate the stadium, with a portion of the revenues directed back to the city. The new retail and residential would be subject to property taxes."

City pays for the stadium, which allows OSEG to get a CFL franchise and build retail and residential properties that are likely to be much more valuable in the long term, while keeping some of the stadium revenue. Nothing like public money.

[Cashcleaner]

Well, just sorta looking at it now, the city would be getting quite a lot back in that plan, though. Taxes from the stadium AND adjacent commercial and residential properties in addition to profit-sharing doesn't sound too bad. At lot of "ifs", "ands", and "buts", though.

[greatwhitenorf]

"The CFL has been pretty profitable for quite some time now."

PARTS of the CFL are profitable. None of those parts are east of Winnipeg. Those parts that do make money don't have huge margins.

Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps arrival in MLS will definitely have a negative affect on commercial aspects of their respective CFL clubs. CFL in Ottawa looks a longshot from the outset and this set up doesn't offer much hope that soccer will get the treatment it needs to be successful, at either MLS or tier-two level.

The whole stadium-football deal is a smokescreen for the building of a largely-unwanted commercial-residential development and a free arena upgrade for Jeff Hunt.

[ginkster88]

The whole stadium-football deal is a smokescreen for the building of a largely-unwanted commercial-residential development and a free arena upgrade for Jeff Hunt.

That's what I'm seeing now. Football in Ottawa doesn't make sense, and who loses if the team fails? Not Hunt, because he's got tenants in his buildings and only keeps part of the stadium revenue; the only thing besides property taxes the city gets out of the deal.

So if the team fails, the city loses revenue from a now-tenantless newly renovated stadium and gets more property taxes, while Hunt keeps his buildings and all related revenue? Nice.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

Well, just sorta looking at it now, the city would be getting quite a lot back in that plan, though. Taxes from the stadium AND adjacent commercial and residential properties in addition to profit-sharing doesn't sound too bad. At lot of "ifs", "ands", and "buts", though.

The city get nothing back from the stadium. OSEG have complete control of the stadium rent-free for 30 years.

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

That's what I'm seeing now. Football in Ottawa doesn't make sense, and who loses if the team fails? Not Hunt, because he's got tenants in his buildings and only keeps part of the stadium revenue; the only thing besides property taxes the city gets out of the deal.

So if the team fails, the city loses revenue from a now-tenantless newly renovated stadium and gets more property taxes, while Hunt keeps his buildings and all related revenue? Nice.

OSEG have agreed to guarantee the CFL team for 5 years, but I wouldn't count on them being around beyond that. USL-1 or NASL soccer is unlikely to flourish in that stadium, but again that doesn't worry OSEG as they are not putting any money into soccer. They are only working on having the Ottawa Fury as a tenant and as a way to try and convince soccer fans that they should be supporting the OSEG redevelopment of Lansdowne.

[Mark in Ottawa]

With the level of soccer to be played being lower tier then they had better hit the proper price point to attract fans and get them buying tickets.

The Ottawa market has proven time and again that even a relatively inexpensive ticket is no guarantee of sports franchise success (the baseball team history proves that) and a badly managed sports franchise is an even more sure road to oblivion (reference the recent past history of Ottawa in the CFL).

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

With the level of soccer to be played being lower tier then they had better hit the proper price point to attract fans and get them buying tickets.

The Ottawa market has proven time and again that even a relatively inexpensive ticket is no guarantee of sports franchise success (the baseball team history proves that) and a badly managed sports franchise is an even more sure road to oblivion (reference the recent past history of Ottawa in the CFL).

The only thing that does give me any hope that a div 2 team could survive at Lansdowne is that the Ottawa Fury are involved. These guys know how to run soccer teams, although I still doubt that they will thrive in a big empty CFL stadium whatever the price point or quality on the pitch (compared with other div 2 sides).

I also don't know if the Fury have deep enough pockets to provide the quality on the pitch, or if OSEG are intending to chip in with the running costs. I doubt that they would, because it is a long way from their core business of real estate development

[Keystone FC]

So with CFL coming back to Ottawa does this mean that Ottawa WILL be getting a soccer club of Div. II proportion?

[greatwhitenorf]

They're getting a gridiron football team of tier two standard. Possibly, hopefully, not for long.

They're getting a soccer club, playing on plastic, in the vast, prairie-wide, expanse of a CFL-configured stadium. No wonder Saskatchewanonians love that game. Will produce a less-than-tier-two experience and fail dismally. Then all the CFL advocates and anti-soccer cretins can say 'told you so'.

Melnyk should just go ahead and build out in Kanata. He's got the pockets to outlast Hunt's bunch and can chip away sufficiently at the CFLer's profit margins until they fail.

Then everyone in the Glebe will come out of their leaf-shaded homes, join hands in a big circle around Landsdowne, and start singing 'Wha-Hoo, Wha-Hoo...' like it's Whoville after the Grinch left.

Then burn down the new complex. And soccer in Canada lives happily ever after.

[Cashcleaner]

The city get nothing back from the stadium. OSEG have complete control of the stadium rent-free for 30 years.

The article says that the city will still be collecting taxes off it and the surrounding land. That could end up being substantial.

[sully]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=326853

He is also prepared to bring a professional soccer to team to Hamilton. (Ok, it's not Ottawa, but well it's not Toronto either..)

[drewski]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=326853

He is also prepared to bring a professional soccer to team to Hamilton. (Ok, it's not Ottawa, but well it's not Toronto either..)

young is a different guy.

Hunt (67's owner) is the guy who is interested in NASL in Ottawa

[Macksam]

They're getting a gridiron football team of tier two standard. Possibly, hopefully, not for long.

They're getting a soccer club, playing on plastic, in the vast, prairie-wide, expanse of a CFL-configured stadium. No wonder Saskatchewanonians love that game. Will produce a less-than-tier-two experience and fail dismally. Then all the CFL advocates and anti-soccer cretins can say 'told you so'.

Melnyk should just go ahead and build out in Kanata. He's got the pockets to outlast Hunt's bunch and can chip away sufficiently at the CFLer's profit margins until they fail.

Then everyone in the Glebe will come out of their leaf-shaded homes, join hands in a big circle around Landsdowne, and start singing 'Wha-Hoo, Wha-Hoo...' like it's Whoville after the Grinch left.

Then burn down the new complex. And soccer in Canada lives happily ever after.

I like your thinking.

As to the CFL's profitability, I only know of Saskatchewan's finances since they are a publicly owned team. From what I can remember, they are making money, but only just. I think it's somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 000 which is better than a loss in all honesty. However, if the strongest and most well supported franchise can only make that kind of money, it doesn't speak very well for the other teams. I think Edmonton is the only other team that I can see making just as much, if not more money.

[drewski]

if not dead, then on life support with these tidbits

http://www.24thminute.com/2010/08/25...t-dilemma.html

If the rumblings coming from the meeting are to be believed there could be a requirement that the new D2 league have no more than 25 per cent of its teams located outside the United States. That number matches the current ratio of three teams in a league of 12.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2010/0...ugh-standards/

Another standard will be soccer specific stadiums. The new standard will require all teams in D2 to be playing in SSS’s within 5 years.

[Shway]

they are really trying to ready the promotion/relegation in the future.
be prepared for a July to November - late february to May schedule