Originally Posted by Keystone FC
Ottawa Fury owner and the guys behind the new Landsdowne project (including Jeff Hunt, 67's & new CFL team owner) have already applied for a tier 2 team in Ottawa
http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/361425.html
Ottawa Fury owner and the guys behind the new Landsdowne project (including Jeff Hunt, 67's & new CFL team owner) have already applied for a tier 2 team in Ottawa
http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/361425.html
Chivas or FC Dallas would be one of the first choices, one in St Louis, the other in Ottawa
However, Ottawa is likely down the list of potential locations. Just a dream.
That was before the TOA/USL mess. I hope they make the move to the NASL with Edmonton and hopefully Hamilton!
but the point of getting a team (revenue from tenants) is still in place.
Chivas will most likely stay in LA and build themselves a new SSS in the burbs, or move down to San Diego. FCD has been linked to San Antonio, and being bought by the NBA Spurs, if there is a move.Chivas or FC Dallas would be one of the first choices, one in St Louis, the other in Ottawa
However, Ottawa is likely down the list of potential locations. Just a dream.
Ottawa is still a market to consider but for more along the lines of NASL or USL 1 whichever comes out on top in the USSF Div. II race.
Correct. The dream is still alive in Ottawa for a club. Like Drewski said everything is still in place for the possibility for a pro club it's just a matter of where Ottawa will go and who will try to court them.
And to the point of what Mednus said the whole thing will come to light once the NASL/USL matter is resolved.
If Eugene Melnyk, owner of the Sens and Coral Centre, is set on bringing an MLS team to Ottawa then an MLS team will be in Ottawa. Simple as that.
Once the stadium issue is figured out in Ottawa look for the wheels to start turning on MLS Ottawa. A CFL and MLS team should be able to share a venue, CFL has 9 home dates. Aslong as the american football lines can be removed everything is good.
Its not as simple as that.
he is not friggin luke skywalker.
i doubt that there will ever be more than 3 CDN teams in the MLS.
NASL will work though
Moderator
Money. That's what determines who gets a franchise and who doesn't. It's simple mathematics, really. If a potential owner can front the franchise fee and has the appropriate assets in place, they get the franchise. Melnyk has a metric assload of cash and a long-term business plan in place. If he truly wants an MLS club in Ottawa and no-one else can match or exceed what he brings to the table, he'll get exactly what he wants.
Conference parity means NOTHING.
Soccer-Specific Stadia means NOTHING.
Cash means EVERYTHING.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
the primary reason Melnyk wants a team in Ottawa is so he can make better use of his his holdings in Kanata. I really can't see him willing to pay for an MLS team that plays in a stadium he doesn't own or control.
So I just don't see Melnyk/MLS and Hunt/CFL working, unless he buys the group leading the redesign of Landsowne, which, while possible, doesn't strike me as probable.
if it was a case of ....." if he wants it....its done"
then it would have worked the last time he tried a few yrs ago.
Moderator
^ No, because both Portland and Vancouver had the money and better business plans at the time. They were willing to spend the cash and work out their respective stadium proposals. Therefore, they got the franchises before Ottawa.
Again, it was money and a sound plan that secured their franchises.
The fact that Ottawa didn't get a franchise during the last round of expansion doesn't negate the reality that money paid up-front and potential profits of a market are what drives the franchise program with MLS. If anything, it reinforces it.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 05-04-2010 at 07:43 PM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
agreed.
the question marks over stadiums, (which will city council support, would Melnyk be willing to use Landsdowne if his stadium didn't get support) were a huge issue. cause if Melnyk didn't get his stadium and wans't willign tio use Landsdowne, it would looked bad on MLS if he had then backed out
Agreed. This wasn't about love of the game for Melnyk so much as it was trying to get public funds to build him a stadium out in Kanata. Otherwise he would have built it himself with his own money, which he has plenty of.
TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)
Moderator
Please explain.
Because I don't think anyone goes to the trouble of building a stadium, paying an exorbitant franchise fee, and fronting the various start-up and operational costs involved without wanting to turn a profit. I totally agree that from Melnyk's point-of-view there is great business sense in putting the stadium out in Kanata and for him the potential benefits outweigh the risks, but I don't think his primary concern is building the stadium for the sake of having it where he wants.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
It was simply a case of Melnyk presenting an alternative stadium plan given that at the time, and still, there was quite a bit of opposition to rebuilding a major sports facility at Landsdowne park in the city centre.
If he could get the focus switched to his plan in Kanata and get some funding then it was a low risk for him with all of the cash flow coming his way. As far as we know he never approached or was approached by the Landsdowne redevelopment consortium to become a part of it.
Given the city governments slow movement on getting anything done regarding a sports stadium it is pretty obvious that he was not gonna get much support for his plan. Two stadiums is simply not on and so Melnyk has to wait to see if plan B would become the preferred option.
Only if Melnyk can buy a MLS club and move them to Ottawa cause after Vancouver and Montreal come into the league MLS is DONE with Canada. Now that is not to say that other Canadian cities (Edmonton, Calgary, Winnepeg) can't come into MLS but it would be an owner moving the club or someone in those cities buying and moving a club to those cities.
I think at best Ottawa is looking at USL/NASL Div. II club and maybe one of the clubs for a new CSL.
Proposed re-design, article doesn`t talk about soccer much, but the pictures have soccer lines - http://tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=322816
Gallery - http://www.tsn.ca/window/gallery/?id=374
I think it would be the other way around. I doubt they would approve an existing franchise in America to move to Canada unless the MLS were really desperate. Buying an MLS club is still a possibility.
It would depend on the circumstances. I would think something along the lines of the Coyotes in the NHL.
Let's say, for fun and delight, the Crew's owner is looking to sell the club and no Columbus or Ohio moneybags comes to the rescue to keep the club in Ohio like MLS would want.
I would think the MLS would 'buy' or 'run' the Crew in Columbus until an owner is found. Then I would think if they HAVE to move the club they would look for an owner in Detroit, Indianapolis, StL (), Milwaukee, and maybe Pittsburgh or Nashville to keep the club close to the market. If after that and still no owner to show for it or owners who are delusional THEN I think MLS would consider Ottawa.
It's a long shot but remember that MLS clubs are franchises of MLS and not independant entities.
I would also think MLS would rather have a club in Ottawa than to fold a club. IT didn't look good when they did it to Tampa and Miami and it wouldn't look good now either.
i really like the look of the new stand. not crazy about the existing one but given what they had to work with, its not too bad.
As a number of people have already said, there is no way Melnyk is going to pay for a team to play out of a stadium that he doesn't control. The only way we are going to see MLS at Lansdowne is if the OSEG group decide they want to seek a franchise and to date they have not mentioned anything about that. Quite the opposite in fact, they have been working with the Ottawa Fury to bring USL-1 or NASL or whatever second division soccer exists when, and if, they get the stadium refurbished.
soccer on pointy ball lines wont work in this country!
will Ottawa get behind a 2nd League team?
Ottawa is also a pretty small city dispite the city saying it has 1 million people. When looked at Ottawa is built more like a small urban area here and there spread out over a large area, would Ottawa fans travel long distances for games? could Ottawa support a team??
Ottawa City Population: 812,000
City area: 2,778 km/2
City density: 292 per km/2
Metro pop: 1.1 million (land area 5,318 km/2)
Calgary City population: 988,000
City area: 726 km/2
City Density: 1,435 per km/2
Metro Pop. : 1,079,000 (land area 5,107 km/2)
Montreal City Population: 1.6 million
City area: 365 km/2
City Density: 4,439 per km/2
Urban pop: 3.3 million (land area 1,677 km/2)
Metro pop: 3.6 million ( land area 4,259 km/2)
Toronto City: 2.5 million
City area: 630 km/2
City Density: 3,972 per km/2
Toronto Urban pop. : 4.7 million (land area 1,749 km/2)
Toronto metro pop : 5.1 million (land area 7,125 km/2)
Vancouver City Populatiuon: 578,000
City area: 114.67 km/2
City Density: 5,335 per km/2
Metro Pop: 2.1 million (land area 2,116 km/2)
Hamilton City Population: 504,000
City area: 1,138 km/2
City Density: 451 per km/2
Metro pop. 692,000 (land area 1,371 km/2)
As you see the Ottawa city area is rediculously huge. The city of Ottawa is more like a whole Metro area for other cities. If you were to break ottawa down to about the size of the city of Toronto and just count the population of main Ottawa its very likely Ottawa is maybe half a million people or less.
Last edited by james; 06-03-2010 at 07:21 PM.
and just for the hell of it look at New York City
NYC pop: 8.3 million
City area: 468 km/2
City Density: 10,606 per km/2
Urabn Pop: 18.2 million (land area 3,352 km/2)
Metro pop: 19 million (land area 6,720 km/2)
crazy!
It's tough to say if Ottawa would get behind a 2nd league team. I struggle with what the atmosphere will be like if they draw the league average of around 5,000 in a 24,000 seat stadium with open ends (and pointy ball lines on the pitch). Let's face it, there likely won't be much atmosphere, which means you are going to rely on die-hard fans, rather than converting casual fans based on the product.
However, there are close to 100,000 registered soccer players in Ottawa, with 50,000 suiting up most weeks. A recent poll for OSEG, the group trying to being the CFL back, found that 48% or respondents wanted professional soccer.
I was at the TFC/KC game on Saturday and I'm convinced MLS would draw well here. A second division team would as well in a 10,000 seat SSS. At Lansdowne Park? Anybody's guess.
I think if Montreal and Vancouver are successful like Toronto, there will be a renewed push for an MLS team in Ottawa.
agreed.
Ottawa definitely seems like far more of a soccer city than it does a football city. Even driving around, yous see tons of cars with OSU (ottawa south united) stickers or soccer balls hanging from rearview mirrors.
BUT, a 2nd tier franchise in a big open stadium like that probably won't work out so well.
my guess, and this is just me guessing....but if Ottawa was to get a MLS team and a Stadium built down town Ottawa, such as where Landsdowne stadium is, with 24,000 seats or less Ottawa will get at least 15,000 -20,000 fans a game. Which is better then probably 70% of the current MLS teams.
Now if they have to share a new stadium with a Ottawa football team i think it could work if they play on a field like Seattle Sounders. And again the stadium is rather small with 24,000 or less seats and have it built more like BMO field with seats behind the net that can move back for football games. Now if the pointy ball lines are visible on the field however the city wont take the Soccer team serious.
A 2nd division team will mainly rely on diehards or young families, and will get under 10,000 fans a game. Might draw better if they could play in a 10,000 - 15,000 seat stadium, but a 24,000 seat stadium would hurt the atmsophere at a 2nd division level with the stadium felling 2/3rds empty.
Does anyone think that second division soccer is likely to be successful in a 24,000 seat stadium in Ottawa? Has anyone spoken to John Pugh to ask him why he thinks the Fury will succeed under those conditions?
Personally I think he is just being used by OSEG, who saw a chance to get some soccer fans to support the Lansdowne stadium renovation rather than pushing council to support Melnyk's Kanata stadium.
personally, i want soccer in ottawa but i can't foresee ottawa supporting a losing franchise (which is the inevitability for most teams, most seasons).
Ottawa has potential to be a great MLS city, but I just can't see them support a losing team.. to much cynicism perhaps? For all the good and bad that people have to say about Toronto fans, they will support their team win or lose.
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